Looking for a narrowboat

[Mike Bowden]

2 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 
They’re top end boats with a highly reputable broker. If they look like your sort of thing give the broker a call and arrange to go and view them.

 

Bag End is essentially a new boat that’s never been used in anger.

Thanks - we intend to do that!

[MrsM]

1 hour ago, Mike Bowden said:

Thank you for all your comments and advice - much appreciated!  My reason for the budget I have allocated is that I want to minimise, ad far as possible, the work required to maintain the boat and maximise the time spent out on the cut.  Being an engineer by profession I realise that time (and money) needs to be spent on maintenance (engine services/fault rectification/blacking etc etc).  I am not rich as some have suggested - I have the money to do this because I don't have a mortgage anymore and have the funds from the sale of my late father's house.   Also, I am now 60 years old and know that I won't be cruising for 10s of years - when we cannot manage it anymore we will just sell the boat on (yes, I know narrowboats depreciate in value).  We are viewing as many boats as possible, as suggested (knowing pictures/YouTube videos don't give a true impression).  I think I have confirmed that a 57ft boat will be best for what we want to do.  BTW, we intend to just cruise on the K&A as we live within 5 miles of Devizes/Trowbridge.   Also, I would rather buy a boat with more character/quality (eg, quality wood fit out) than just something that suits practically (hence willing to compromise).  Also, I think I would compromise on stern design as long as there is somewhere on the bow to enable around 3-4 to sit outside.   What do you all think of:

Millettia Laurentii - 59' Cruiser Stern Reverse Layout 2011 JD Narrowboats - Rugby Boats

or

Bag End - 58' Reverse Layout Trad 2021 Aqualine - Rugby Boats

 

Both gorgeous. If it was me I would go for the Aqualine as it is virtually new and will still be a newish, quality boat if you sell it on in 10 years (don't delay as it will sell quickly). We just sold our Polish-built boat and the surveyor remarked on its welding and steel quality. Very exciting for you and I wish you many happy years on the cut.

[Mike Bowden]

26 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Both gorgeous. If it was me I would go for the Aqualine as it is virtually new and will still be a newish, quality boat if you sell it on in 10 years (don't delay as it will sell quickly). We just sold our Polish-built boat and the surveyor remarked on its welding and steel quality. Very exciting for you and I wish you many happy years on the cut.

Thank you 🙂

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Mike Bowden said:

I think I have confirmed that a 57ft boat will be best for what we want to do.  BTW, we intend to just cruise on the K&A as we live within 5 miles of Devizes/Trowbridge. 

 

I understand that the K&A is not an easy place to find moorings, as you are keeping the house (?) have you managed to find somewhere to moor ?

 

In that part of the country it is probably better to find, secure and pay for a mooring before you find a boat.

[Tigerr]

That Bag End is a new boat for £144k. Given the price of new boats, that's a god deal. Aqualine boats are well built, and hold their price OK. It will probably sell very quickly. Probably a sad story behind it being on the market so soon after going in the water - almost unused engine. 

But it's a trad stern which wouldn't be my own choice - no seat for the dog. 

The other boat has some serious woodwork. The cruiser deck seating arrangement is quite 'yachting'. 

Both look like top boats. 

[Mike Bowden]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I understand that the K&A is not an easy place to find moorings, as you are keeping the house (?) have you managed to find somewhere to moor ?

 

In that part of the country it is probably better to find, secure and pay for a mooring before you find a boat.

Thanks.  I have a couple of options lined up.

 

17 hours ago, MtB said:

I think the OP would be a complete nutjob to spend £130k on a first boat. He can't possibly know what his mature taste in boats will turn out to be.

 

Far better to buy just any ol' boat that presses his buttons now for half that price and use it for a year or two, then he'll have the experience to know what he really wants. A few weeks of hiring really doesn't cut it. I dunno ehy people keep suggesting this.

 

Nice wine, this  

 

 

I would suggest you need to cut down on your wine consumption.   What "cuts it" for me is obviously different to you.  

1 hour ago, Tigerr said:

That Bag End is a new boat for £144k. Given the price of new boats, that's a god deal. Aqualine boats are well built, and hold their price OK. It will probably sell very quickly. Probably a sad story behind it being on the market so soon after going in the water - almost unused engine. 

But it's a trad stern which wouldn't be my own choice - no seat for the dog. 

The other boat has some serious woodwork. The cruiser deck seating arrangement is quite 'yachting'. 

Both look like top boats. 

Thanks.   Good info regarding what boats are well built - any other hulls/fit out companies that are generally considered good?  Also, what ones are considered not so good?

[Alan de Enfield]

49 minutes ago, Mike Bowden said:

Thanks.  I have a couple of options lined up.

 

I would suggest you need to cut down on your wine consumption.   What "cuts it" for me is obviously different to you.  

Thanks.   Good info regarding what boats are well built - any other hulls/fit out companies that are generally considered good?  Also, what ones are considered not so good?

 

Whilst a good builder is a good starting point it is also worth looking at age, condition and maintenance records.

 

At the same pricing levels

A newish, well looked after 5 year old Mercedes will be a far better buy that a 1 million mile, clapped out, 20 year old battered & beaten Bently or Rolls Royce.

 

Also important to look at who has done the fit-out, 

Many manufacturers (top-end as well as lower down) sell the empty hulls fo companies and individuals for fitting out. DIY fit-outs can be well done or appaling, but so can 'company' fit outs.

Typical shortcuts are the use of chip-board or OSB board instead of wood, you can then end up with a heap of soggy porridge in a damp environment.

 

Just because the Hull is a Rolls-Royce does not mean that the fit-out is, it could be a 'Trabant' fit out.

 

Narrowboat building is a cottage industry with only a couple of 'volume manufacturers' working on a production line basis.

 

You are unlikely find two boats (even from the same manufacturer) that are identical, as every boat is built to order and the options and standards of build will be influenced by the depth of the buyers pocket.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[JamesFrance]

I know it does not fit what you are looking at apart from the price, but this is what I would be looking at if I could still use it, very like the one I had 20 years ago and must be one of the last boats built by Steve Hudson before he sadly died.

https://aqueductmarina.co.uk/second-hand-boats/brigand-67ft-steve-hudson-trad-stern/

[Mike Bowden]

46 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Whilst a good builder is a good starting point it is also worth looking at age, condition and maintenance records.

 

At the same pricing levels

A newish, well looked after 5 year old Mercedes will be a far better buy that a 1 million mile, clapped out, 20 year old battered & beaten Bently or Rolls Royce.

 

Also important to look at who has done the fit-out, 

Many manufacturers (top-end as well as lower down) sell the empty hulls fo companies and individuals for fitting out. DIY fit-outs can be well done or appaling, but so can 'company' fit outs.

Typical shortcuts are the use of chip-board or OSB board instead of wood, you can then end up with a heap of soggy porridge in a damp environment.

 

Just because the Hull is a Rolls-Royce does not mean that the fit-out is, it could be a 'Trabant' fit out.

 

Narrowboat building is a cottage industry with only a couple of 'volume manufacturers' working on a production line basis.

 

You are unlikely find two boats (even from the same manufacturer) that are identical, as every boat is built to order and the options and standards of build will be influenced by the depth of the buyers pocket.

Yes, totally agree re service history/paperwork etc.   Whatever I buy it needs to have been looked after properly - like I do with everything I own!

 

21 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

I know it does not fit what you are looking at apart from the price, but this is what I would be looking at if I could still use it, very like the one I had 20 years ago and must be one of the last boats built by Steve Hudson before he sadly died.

https://aqueductmarina.co.uk/second-hand-boats/brigand-67ft-steve-hudson-trad-stern/

James, I have seen that on-line and it is a stunning looking traditional style boat; and, importantly, looks like it has been looked after very well.  

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, JamesFrance said:

I know it does not fit what you are looking at apart from the price, but this is what I would be looking at if I could still use it, very like the one I had 20 years ago and must be one of the last boats built by Steve Hudson before he sadly died.

https://aqueductmarina.co.uk/second-hand-boats/brigand-67ft-steve-hudson-trad-stern/

Audacious is a far better boat in my opinion

[JamesFrance]

25 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Audacious is a far better boat in my opinion

A fine shell but 20 years older so unlikely to be of similar quality within.

[Tonka]

33 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

A fine shell but 20 years older so unlikely to be of similar quality within.

But better outside and it looks in a very good condition 

[Tigerr]

Hudson is a name that excites 'traditional' boat lovers. Lovely solid steel, and decent wood fit outs. 

But that boat has a tug deck which is a special interest feature I'd avoid. 

Norton Canes is another name too - but these are 'old-school' boats for enthusiasts and you've got to fancy a vintage engine hobby as part of your boating. 

If not:

With your budget I'd put Braidbar boats coming onto the market over the next few months onto an advanced search on Apollo Duck. I suspect a Braidbar is going to be right up your street. 

Reliably good hulls, and very nicely fitted out in proper hardwoods throughout, with an emphasis on comfort. Braidbar are highly regarded and hold value. You'd be able to get a recent boat with low hours, in excellent condition on your budget. 

 

[JungleJames]

43 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

Hudson is a name that excites 'traditional' boat lovers. Lovely solid steel, and decent wood fit outs. 

But that boat has a tug deck which is a special interest feature I'd avoid. 

Norton Canes is another name too - but these are 'old-school' boats for enthusiasts and you've got to fancy a vintage engine hobby as part of your boating. 

If not:

With your budget I'd put Braidbar boats coming onto the market over the next few months onto an advanced search on Apollo Duck. I suspect a Braidbar is going to be right up your street. 

Reliably good hulls, and very nicely fitted out in proper hardwoods throughout, with an emphasis on comfort. Braidbar are highly regarded and hold value. You'd be able to get a recent boat with low hours, in excellent condition on your budget. 

 

Norton Canes-

So are we to assume only enthusiasts want quality?

If so, I'm assuming enthusiasts of Beta engines count as well?

Basically, NC equals decent shells which is aimed at any one who likes long lasting quality. Hardly anything on them stands out as being aimed at the enthusiast, whatever one of those is. Except perhaps those built for Initial owners who wanted a real engine.

One of the few as well who know what painting means, so the paint job should last longer.

 

Braidbar- If you can look past the BS they come out with on their website. 

It was designed by someone who had clearly just left the International school of PR and BS.

The shell as well could be anything. As I don't believe they build there own shells? I could be wrong though.

 

 

As we are willing to look at other stern types.

 

Reverse layout

4 fixed berths

Pump out toilet

Ex hire boat apparently?

 

You might want to upgrade the galley, but a very reasonable price for not a very old boat.

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/tyler-wilson-58-semi-trad-for-sale/738229

 

Plus extra pictures as fitted out:

https://www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk/home/index.php/fit-out

Edited September 15, 2023 by JungleJames

[Mad Harold]

20 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I understand that the K&A is not an easy place to find moorings, as you are keeping the house (?) have you managed to find somewhere to moor ?

 

In that part of the country it is probably better to find, secure and pay for a mooring before you find a boat.

Accordng to the Wiltshire Times, CRT are having a 'purge' on the unlicenced and engineless 'shanty' camps on the K&A, much to the approval of the local residents.

[Captain Pegg]

I note the OP is seeking a modern design.

 

If you speak to a broker about what sells you’ll likely get a different picture than you get from comments on a forum of enthusiasts (which is surely all of us).

 

Of the large number of boats I get to ‘test’ I can usually identify those that will sell quickly as the ones that I’d have little or no interest in. I do though fully understand why others find them desirable.
 

As good as a Hudson build quality may be (I’m not entirely convinced by the ‘traditional’ bit) I’m not sure it matches with the OPs preferences in terms of style. The same may go for other suggestions of quality builds above. However buying a boat is a compromise.

 

If a boat like Bag End comes to market at 10 years old it’ll likely sell in a flash because the price would put it in a market where there is a lot of buyers.

 

As a practically new boat - it’s essentially unused - the price bracket is beyond the majority of the market.

 

The OP could see if their maximum budget is enough. It’s 90% of the asking price so not insulting even if it isn’t accepted.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Accordng to the Wiltshire Times, CRT are having a 'purge' on the unlicenced and engineless 'shanty' camps on the K&A, much to the approval of the local residents.

 

I believe that it is the most regulated and enforced area on the waterways, but C&RT seem to consistently fail to take the last step (boat removal)

 

A year or two ago C&RT had a K&A Purge resulting in :

 

 

Between 1 February and 30 April a total of 6556 boat sightings (1157 individual boats) have been recorded in the K&A Local Plan area between Bath and Foxhangers.

This includes all boats sighted by volunteers at visitor moorings and 14 day sightings undertaken by enforcement data checkers.

 

Breakdown of the 1157 individual boats:

 391 are boats without a home mooring

 Of the above 304 boats were only sighted within the local plan area

 54 boats had a mooring status unknown

 712 have home moorings or are trailable of which 58 have home moorings off the K&A

 

Visitor Moorings

17 boats were sighted as having exceeded the free mooring period. 16 of these received a first warning notification, but then moved from the visitor moorings immediately. The remaining boat was invoiced for exceeding the free mooring period.

 

Movement Patterns

Between 1 February and 30 April data checkers completed 10 separate 14 day sightings in the K&A Local Plan area. During this period 199 unique boats were identified that did not move between two or more sightings Boat owners have been contacted by text, email or letter to remind them to move, or to contact the trust if there is a reason that they cannot move. 

95 have been contacted once

40 have been contacted twice

16 have been contacted three times

18 have been contacted four or more times

 

The Trust is in contact with the owners of the remaining 30 boats for a number of different reasons. Allowances were made when ice on the canal made movement difficult or dangerous. All of the boats that received multiple 14 day reminders in this period were already in the enforcement process.

 

Between February and April, of the 279 boats only sighted in the Local Plan area, 231 did not attract any enforcement action. A further 60 boaters had taken up winter moorings. 33 additional boats had been sighted both within and outside of the plan area.

Of these, none had received pre enforcement letters and none are now in the enforcement process.

 14 boaters have received pre enforcement letters (pre CC1)

 10 have received first enforcement letters (CC1)

 13 received second stage enforcement letters (CC2)

 16 received third stage enforcement letters (CC3)

 

At the end of April 33 boats were still in the CC enforcement process. However, many cases were closed in readiness for the new CC process. All boats that had only received a pre CC1 by the end of February had their enforcement cases closed.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I believe that it is the most regulated and enforced area on the waterways, but C&RT seem to consistently fail to take the last step (boat removal)

 

I'd like to see which is the least regulated then! Here on the eastern end there seems to be no enforcement whatever. The boat thats been on the 48hr VM here all summer is showing no signs of enforcement happening. 

[Mike Bowden]

On 15/09/2023 at 09:18, JungleJames said:

Norton Canes-

So are we to assume only enthusiasts want quality?

If so, I'm assuming enthusiasts of Beta engines count as well?

Basically, NC equals decent shells which is aimed at any one who likes long lasting quality. Hardly anything on them stands out as being aimed at the enthusiast, whatever one of those is. Except perhaps those built for Initial owners who wanted a real engine.

One of the few as well who know what painting means, so the paint job should last longer.

 

Braidbar- If you can look past the BS they come out with on their website. 

It was designed by someone who had clearly just left the International school of PR and BS.

The shell as well could be anything. As I don't believe they build there own shells? I could be wrong though.

 

 

As we are willing to look at other stern types.

 

Reverse layout

4 fixed berths

Pump out toilet

Ex hire boat apparently?

 

You might want to upgrade the galley, but a very reasonable price for not a very old boat.

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/tyler-wilson-58-semi-trad-for-sale/738229

 

Plus extra pictures as fitted out:

https://www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk/home/index.php/fit-out

That looks a good boat - agree the galley could do with an upgrade.

 

On 15/09/2023 at 09:39, Captain Pegg said:

I note the OP is seeking a modern design.

 

If you speak to a broker about what sells you’ll likely get a different picture than you get from comments on a forum of enthusiasts (which is surely all of us).

 

Of the large number of boats I get to ‘test’ I can usually identify those that will sell quickly as the ones that I’d have little or no interest in. I do though fully understand why others find them desirable.
 

As good as a Hudson build quality may be (I’m not entirely convinced by the ‘traditional’ bit) I’m not sure it matches with the OPs preferences in terms of style. The same may go for other suggestions of quality builds above. However buying a boat is a compromise.

 

If a boat like Bag End comes to market at 10 years old it’ll likely sell in a flash because the price would put it in a market where there is a lot of buyers.

 

As a practically new boat - it’s essentially unused - the price bracket is beyond the majority of the market.

 

The OP could see if their maximum budget is enough. It’s 90% of the asking price so not insulting even if it isn’t accepted.

Thank you - very useful information.

[manxmike]

Before buying our boat (now long gone sadly) I spent many weekends traveling (by motorbike) up and down the country looking at boats that I thought might suit. It was a great way to spend weekends and I saw some great boats and some complete wrecks. One had been sunk, was full of dried mud and they wanted top dollar for it. Another had been fitted (badly) with house double glazed windows and a double glazed door that was too narrow to get through if you weighed more than 6 stone.

Everything is out there from brilliant to "OMG, really??" For a first boat look at spending up to half your budget - you'll need the rest for maintenance etc.

[PCSB]

2 hours ago, manxmike said:

Before buying our boat (now long gone sadly) I spent many weekends traveling (by motorbike) up and down the country looking at boats that I thought might suit. It was a great way to spend weekends and I saw some great boats and some complete wrecks. One had been sunk, was full of dried mud and they wanted top dollar for it. Another had been fitted (badly) with house double glazed windows and a double glazed door that was too narrow to get through if you weighed more than 6 stone.

Everything is out there from brilliant to "OMG, really??" For a first boat look at spending up to half your budget - you'll need the rest for maintenance etc.

Reminds me of when we were looking ... especially the "OMG, really??" bit. We went on one that the broker said was 10K over priced, they were asking 12K 🤣 it really was bad!

[MtB]

2 hours ago, PCSB said:

Reminds me of when we were looking ... especially the "OMG, really??" bit. We went on one that the broker said was 10K over priced, they were asking 12K 🤣 it really was bad!

 

I've also seen boats £10k overpriced, and that's at an asking price of £5k.

 

 

[Chris-B]

On 13/09/2023 at 14:14, Mike Bowden said:

Hi all,

 

I am looking to purchase a narrowboat and have up to a £130k budget.  Should I look at brokers or look to buy privately.  For brokers, is Rugby Boats a good broker?

Late to the party hence the edit lol 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Chris-B
I hadn’t read the whole thread

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, Chris-B said:

Late to the party hence the edit lol 

What party, you forgot to invite us, bloomin heck. 

Hello Chris.

[Chris-B]

Hiya Matty ..lol… that’s another beer I owe you 

I’m still around just not as Canalworld active as I used to be 

hope all well

chris