Looking for a narrowboat

[Mike Bowden]

Hi all,

 

I am looking to purchase a narrowboat and have up to a £130k budget.  Should I look at brokers or look to buy privately.  For brokers, is Rugby Boats a good broker?

[LadyG]

Yes, Rugby and ABNB both seem to specialise in the better boats on the market. That is not to say all the best boats are sold by them 

However,,,,,,, it depends what you know now, what you need now.

Buying an inland boat is not like buying a car where you have a grounding in car purchases, and cars are ten a penny and all the same.

 

[Mike Bowden]

Thank you LadyG - I have done loads of research and hired boats to get experience of boating.  Just getting to the stage where I want to buy and seeking advice.  

[booke23]

21 minutes ago, Mike Bowden said:

Hi all,

 

I am looking to purchase a narrowboat and have up to a £130k budget.  Should I look at brokers or look to buy privately.  For brokers, is Rugby Boats a good broker?

 

You should look everywhere....you never know where the perfect boat for you might pop up for sale. Rugby boats are good......they are so trusted that during the boom in boat sales post covid, a lot of their boats were selling over the phone as soon as they were advertised. Not sure if the market is quite that hot now though. 

[frahkn]

10 minutes ago, Mike Bowden said:

Thank you LadyG - I have done loads of research and hired boats to get experience of boating.  Just getting to the stage where I want to buy and seeking advice.  

I will second Rugby boats from personal experience buying through them - albeit ten years ago when Dominic still had the brokerage.

 

I would always use a broker for a purchase of £130k, if only for the peace of mind.

[LadyG]

34 minutes ago, Mike Bowden said:

Thank you LadyG - I have done loads of research and hired boats to get experience of boating.  Just getting to the stage where I want to buy and seeking advice.  

Well what do you want ?

Wide or narrow. 

Modern or HIstoric .

Ready to go or needing tweaks

Top builder , middle of road, or bargain basement 

Top paint job.

Craftsman fit out 

Liveaboard or holiday .

52 foot / 57 ft  / 70 foot

Diesel/ electric / hybrid 

LIthium or other

Gas free or standard 

Two berth / four berth/ six berth 

Pumpout / cassette.

 

 

 

M

19 minutes ago, frahkn said:

I will second Rugby boats from personal experience buying through them - albeit ten years ago when Dominic still had the brokerage.

 

I would always use a broker for a purchase of £130k, if only for the peace of mind.

No peace of mind , you need to pay for your own survey   .

Tell the broker what you want ,, see what he comes up with  

Broker is trying to sell boats, often on commission. 

Be friendly but  don't buy something he has been trying to get rid of for a year 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by LadyG

[Mike Bowden]

Thanks for the replies - yes, will definitely get a survey on anything I buy.  

[Tigerr]

For your budget, you should be able to get a really very good boat. That's top end for second hand boats.

It may in fact be more than you want to invest in a first purchase. Typically the first boat one buys is teh boat that teaches you what you really want from a boat - it teaches you what you don't know you dont know.

And you can then go on to invest in the boat you really do want. 

I think the start point is to get onto Apollo Duck and start really fine tuning what it is you are looking for, and what the deal-breaker things are you don't want. You'll start to get a sense of what's available at what sort of asking price - usually optimistically priced and negotiable by 10%. 

You will start to appreciate the difference in boat builders designs and quality of finishing and materials. 

Plus start to work out what type of stern setup, engine, galley, toilet plumbing, sleeping and lounging accommodation you want. There's a huge difference in boating a trad, semi, or cruiser stern stern. Critical if you have a dog for instance.

Your budget would for instance get you a lovely Hudson with a nice vintage engine in good condition. Or a recent Braidbar. Lots of solid hardwood interior etc.

That's two very different types of boat, offering very different boating experiences, but both at the top end of boat quality available. 

The main market is in fact significantly lower priced - you'll find very good boats out there around £80K.

Hiring is good but the requirements of a hire boat are different to those of a boat you own. 

[Mike Bowden]

LadyG, my list is (although recognising the need for compromise):

 

Cruiser stern

50-60 feet

Reverse layout 

Top/middle of the road boat (price depends)

Modern design

Diesel

Well looked after - especially hull/engine/engine bay

Not fussed about gas free or not

Narrow beam

Holiday use

Four berth

Pullman dinette

Diesel stove

Main bed wider than 4ft (extender or cross bed)

Pump out loo

No MDF in fit-out

 

Thanks Tigerr - all good points to bear in mind.   

[LadyG]

 Big difference between 50 and 60 foot

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 Big difference between 50 and 60 foot

Four berth plus a separate Pullman dinette may be difficult in 50', much easier in 60' (depending on exact layout). If two of the berths are the dinette, 50' is no problem. But space is always valuable on a narrowboat, which is why 57' is a popular "go-anywhere" length.

Edited September 13, 2023 by IanD

[LadyG]

40 minutes ago, IanD said:

. But space is always valuable on a narrowboat, which is why 57' is a popular "go-anywhere" length.

I thought its because you can't go on the Calder and Hebble with a 58ft narrowboat. 

There is an overpriced boat on Appollo Duck,  modern look, might suit OP, its currently being refurbished. I don't know the builder.

VICTORY NARROWBOATS 

Edited September 13, 2023 by LadyG

[IanD]

32 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I thought its because you can't go on the Calder and Hebble with a 58ft narrowboat. 

There is an overpriced boat on Appollo Duck,  modern look, might suit OP, its currently being refurbished. I don't know the builder.

VICTORY NARROWBOATS 

That's what I said, if you want to go pretty much anywhere 57' is popular -- though the official posted limit for the C&H is 57'6" IIRC (for 14' beam), 58' is also often suggested for a narrowboat and will fit without too much difficulty, and if you're really careful and know what you're doing 60' will just squeeze through, though lots of people wouldn't take this risk and stick to something a couple of feet shorter.

 

Either way, the 8' -10' extra length compared to a 50' boat makes a big difference to internal space, by the time you've taken off the bow and stern it's the difference between maybe 36' and 44'-46' cabin length, so around 25% more space -- or an extra bedroom, if that's what matters.

Edited September 13, 2023 by IanD

[cuthound]

I would suggest a visit to Whilton Marine. Not to buy (they are rumoured to use dodgy practices to sell boats), but to crystallise what you like/want/don't want.

 

They allow you to take the keys to three boats at a time for unsupervised unspections.

 

Having decided exactly what you want then you can view boats at other brokers to see if they have the boat that will choose you.

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, Mike Bowden said:

Should I look at brokers or look to buy privately.  For brokers, is Rugby Boats a good broker?

Well what really matters is who is selling the boat you want, whether that is a private seller, a 'good' broker, or one with a lesser reputation. Don't restrict your options at this stage. 

Apolloduck is the best place to look for options, as it is used by many private sellers and most of the brokerages.

And don't just rely on desktop/online research. Many boats look and feel different in the flesh to the sometimes glossy photos and descriptions used in adverts. 

[Ewan123]

4 hours ago, Mike Bowden said:

LadyG, my list is (although recognising the need for compromise):

 

Cruiser stern

50-60 feet

Reverse layout 

Top/middle of the road boat (price depends)

Modern design

Diesel

Well looked after - especially hull/engine/engine bay

Not fussed about gas free or not

Narrow beam

Holiday use

Four berth

Pullman dinette

Diesel stove

Main bed wider than 4ft (extender or cross bed)

Pump out loo

No MDF in fit-out

 

Thanks Tigerr - all good points to bear in mind.   

Sounds like an ex-hire boat would be just the ticket, especially with the emphasis on four berths. I would contact some hire companies direct to see whether they're selling off any boats. One might need a lick of paint and some tidying up but it sounds like you've got the budget for it.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Ewan123

[David Mack]

46 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

Sounds like an ex-hire boat would be just the ticket

The OP's budget suggests he is looking for something special, rather than a bog standard (but perfectly adequate) ex hire boat.

[MtB]

I think the OP would be a complete nutjob to spend £130k on a first boat. He can't possibly know what his mature taste in boats will turn out to be.

 

Far better to buy just any ol' boat that presses his buttons now for half that price and use it for a year or two, then he'll have the experience to know what he really wants. A few weeks of hiring really doesn't cut it. I dunno ehy people keep suggesting this.

 

Nice wine, this  

 

 

[DandV]

Four equivalent berths or 2  full time berths, plus the ability to accomodate 2 guests for short stays on a convertible bed, the dinette, or a convertible sofa bed? Wilson's or equivalent

I can really recommend the later, as it provided much more comfortable leisure seating for the two people normally resident onboard, then any  Pullman or L shaped dinette.

Just a bit more of a pain to set up, the 90deg shift from lengthways to across the boat.  

 

A refinement to the OP's list is;

Must have,

Preferred,

and really don't like.

 

And then still be very open minded to shuffle these when viewing. 

 

A consideration that we did not give enough consideration to, on our list was washing and drying clothes.

Fortunately the vendor had, and so we got a washing machine, and a cratch with cover as a drying room. This  minimised the need to dry clothes in the saloon with attendant, space demands, and the very undesirable living space condensation.

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by DandV

[blackrose]

7 hours ago, LadyG said:

Well what do you want ?

Wide or narrow. 

 

 

Did you read the title of the thread?

1 hour ago, MtB said:

I think the OP would be a complete nutjob to spend £130k on a first boat. 

 

 

Either that or he's loaded and £130k isn't a lot of money to the OP. 

 

I'd suggest halving that budget and still getting something very nice.

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

I think the OP would be a complete nutjob to spend £130k on a first boat. He can't possibly know what his mature taste in boats will turn out to be.

 

Far better to buy just any ol' boat that presses his buttons now for half that price and use it for a year or two, then he'll have the experience to know what he really wants. A few weeks of hiring really doesn't cut it. I dunno ehy people keep suggesting this.

 

Nice wine, this

 

 

 

Collecting boats as a hobby is also considered pretty nutty by normal boaters

52 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Did you read the title of the thread?

 

Either that or he's loaded and £130k isn't a lot of money to the OP. 

 

I'd suggest halving that budget and still getting something very nice.

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by LadyG

[JungleJames]

7 hours ago, Mike Bowden said:

LadyG, my list is (although recognising the need for compromise):

 

Cruiser stern

50-60 feet

Reverse layout 

Top/middle of the road boat (price depends)

Modern design

Diesel

Well looked after - especially hull/engine/engine bay

Not fussed about gas free or not

Narrow beam

Holiday use

Four berth

Pullman dinette

Diesel stove

Main bed wider than 4ft (extender or cross bed)

Pump out loo

No MDF in fit-out

 

Thanks Tigerr - all good points to bear in mind.   

Bit of a left field option.

 

Doesn't comply with all your wants/ desires, but some may let them slide considering it is brand new, hence in very good condition (you would hope).

 

Fixed double bed.

Space to fit sofa bed of your choice.

No dinette, but a couple of breakfast bar stools

Modern design

Unfortunately it isn't a pump out loo. Perhaps one could be refitted, if there is space under the bed.

Solid fuel stove (Morso), but I believe they can be converted to diesel by Lockgate? So it half complies!

 

I'd query why brand new is so reasonably priced, but hey, it may be worth a query and a look around.

 

https://www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk/home/images/forsale/1204-new-boat-simm/1204-brochure.pdf

 

or for the main page and extra pictures:

 

https://www.nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk/home/index.php/boats-for-sale

[Tigerr]

17 hours ago, Mike Bowden said:

LadyG, my list is (although recognising the need for compromise):

 

Cruiser stern

50-60 feet

Reverse layout 

Top/middle of the road boat (price depends)

Modern design

Diesel

Well looked after - especially hull/engine/engine bay

Not fussed about gas free or not

Narrow beam

Holiday use

Four berth

Pullman dinette

Diesel stove

Main bed wider than 4ft (extender or cross bed)

Pump out loo

No MDF in fit-out

 

Thanks Tigerr - all good points to bear in mind.   

Makes sense. 

The key is to get onto Apollo Duck, and start studying the market. Don't restrict geographically - the boat you are looking for could be anywhere on the system, with any broker. At your budget it's likely to be with a reputable broker. 

Actually, at your budget, the boat is going to be in excellent condition, and likely very recent, also likely the best boat on the brokerage. 

Cruiser sterns are popular on hire boats because there's often a lot of crew, and they like to gather on the stern. So I think ex-hirers assume that's what they want. 

They are  less popular with owners, often cruising just one or two people, (one each end becomes the default) and there are reasons. The engine hole is quite exposed to rain getting in, which isn't an issue if you've hired but becomes one if you are doing the cleaning of it. It's also less handy for storage, which becomes important when as an owner you accumulate tools, paints, ropes, fenders etc.  You might want to think about considering semi-trad, enabling a better weather-protection of the engine hole. A lot of owners fit raised canopies, providing a useful 'extra room' for e.g. wet gear and muddy boots. 

Or indeed if you want an engine in an engine room, much easier for looking after it. A lovely Gardner chugging in its own room is a thing of wonder, that you'd never know about from hiring. A hobby in itself!

Another thing to look at is cratch area - how it really gets used when you are cruising, and height. There's a lot of 'tug-deck' boats out there - we looked at a few before realising that was not an option we wanted to consider. 

You'll tend to find that the higher end boats at your sort of budget are semi or trad sterns so it's a limitation on boats you might not need. Conversely you will find a lot of ex-hire boats with cruiser sterns for a lot less than your budget. 

[Mike Bowden]

Thank you for all your comments and advice - much appreciated!  My reason for the budget I have allocated is that I want to minimise, ad far as possible, the work required to maintain the boat and maximise the time spent out on the cut.  Being an engineer by profession I realise that time (and money) needs to be spent on maintenance (engine services/fault rectification/blacking etc etc).  I am not rich as some have suggested - I have the money to do this because I don't have a mortgage anymore and have the funds from the sale of my late father's house.   Also, I am now 60 years old and know that I won't be cruising for 10s of years - when we cannot manage it anymore we will just sell the boat on (yes, I know narrowboats depreciate in value).  We are viewing as many boats as possible, as suggested (knowing pictures/YouTube videos don't give a true impression).  I think I have confirmed that a 57ft boat will be best for what we want to do.  BTW, we intend to just cruise on the K&A as we live within 5 miles of Devizes/Trowbridge.   Also, I would rather buy a boat with more character/quality (eg, quality wood fit out) than just something that suits practically (hence willing to compromise).  Also, I think I would compromise on stern design as long as there is somewhere on the bow to enable around 3-4 to sit outside.   What do you all think of:

Millettia Laurentii - 59' Cruiser Stern Reverse Layout 2011 JD Narrowboats - Rugby Boats

or

Bag End - 58' Reverse Layout Trad 2021 Aqualine - Rugby Boats

 

[Captain Pegg]

7 minutes ago, Mike Bowden said:

Thank you for all your comments and advice - much appreciated!  My reason for the budget I have allocated is that I want to minimise, ad far as possible, the work required to maintain the boat and maximise the time spent out on the cut.  Being an engineer by profession I realise that time (and money) needs to be spent on maintenance (engine services/fault rectification/blacking etc etc).  I am not rich as some have suggested - I have the money to do this because I don't have a mortgage anymore and have the funds from the sale of my late father's house.   Also, I am now 60 years old and know that I won't be cruising for 10s of years - when we cannot manage it anymore we will just sell the boat on (yes, I know narrowboats depreciate in value).  We are viewing as many boats as possible, as suggested (knowing pictures/YouTube videos don't give a true impression).  I think I have confirmed that a 57ft boat will be best for what we want to do.  BTW, we intend to just cruise on the K&A as we live within 5 miles of Devizes/Trowbridge.   Also, I would rather buy a boat with more character/quality (eg, quality wood fit out) than just something that suits practically (hence willing to compromise).  Also, I think I would compromise on stern design as long as there is somewhere on the bow to enable around 3-4 to sit outside.   What do you all think of:

Millettia Laurentii - 59' Cruiser Stern Reverse Layout 2011 JD Narrowboats - Rugby Boats

or

Bag End - 58' Reverse Layout Trad 2021 Aqualine - Rugby Boats

 

 
They’re top end boats with a highly reputable broker. If they look like your sort of thing give the broker a call and arrange to go and view them.

 

Bag End is essentially a new boat that’s never been used in anger.