Coventry Victor single cylinder diesel

[Tony Brooks]

Some thoughts;

 

The OP's photo of the starter has more wires on it than the others posted. That suggest it may nor be one of those standard CAV coaxial starters (or is it an axial).

 

It does not have a bendix as such, as far as I can remember the whole armature moves forward acting like a solenoid. I also recall they are not the easiest to set up and the pinion has some little balls around one part that are easy to lose, therefore I echo what Tracy says about getting it to Lancashire Electrical people.

 

 

 

[john.k]

The armature doesnt move ,in fact it has a retainer  circlip on the commutator end ......the pinion is moved by a primary coil inside the yoke ,and a very old trick with a non functioning starter was to knock out the allly plug ,and attack the copper terminals inside  with a sharpened hacksaw blade............Everything about CA45s is extravagently costly ,and IMHO ,they are best discarded and replaced by one of the little high speed geared starters.............assuming you can get one with the correct rotation.

[magnetman]

The OP has had the engine running so it seems likely the motor itself is alright but the working end needs cleaning.

 

It could easily be a low hours engine which has just been sitting around a lot. 

[truckcab79]

17 hours ago, magnetman said:

Thick oil seems sensible to help seal the rings. 

 

What does the brass pot on top say on it ? Difficult to read on the image. 

Sorry.  Missed this earlier.  It says ‘decompressor’.   Lift to decompress to make starting easier if I recall. Or press down. Definitely one or the other 😂.  Presumably more of a requirement if hand cranking?   

Edited September 14, 2023 by truckcab79

[BEngo]

The decompressor is essential when hand starting  and can be really useful if the battery is low or the starter motor is a bit weary.  Decompress, turn on starter till up to max speed and drop the decompressor.  The starter then has all the inertia in the flywheel to help get the thing over TDC compression and the cylinder has had the help of a few squirts of diesel to lubricate the rings and possibly raise the compression temperature.

 

N

 

 

[agg221]

Starter motor - if it spins up but does not engage it could be the axial position is off relative to the ring gear and it needs sliding up or down a bit. This can be critical, as some of the starter motors of this era have a two stage current - low to extend and engage them and only near the fully extended position do you get full current to turn the engine. You would need to look up whether this the case for yours and what the position should be.

 

Big old CAV starter motors such as this are not inherently expensive to have or service, but they do require more hunting around. Getting it overhauled by someone with all the necessary parts in the first instance would probably be advisable. In the meantime, figure out what else they fit on and keep an eye out for a spare listed as the starter motor for that. I have a BS5. On the Kelvin J2 they are moderately expensive (£350 or so outright sale) but the same starter motor fits a pre-war Bentley and if advertised as such it is usually around £2000. However, it also has other applications and I have picked up a couple of spares of the correct voltage and rotation for around £40-60 each. The pinion, which is the part that wears, also fits the U6 and I picked one up that way which was advertised as for a Gardner. This can make quite a saving.

 

Alec

[magnetman]

6 hours ago, BEngo said:

The decompressor is essential when hand starting  and can be really useful if the battery is low or the starter motor is a bit weary.  Decompress, turn on starter till up to max speed and drop the decompressor.  The starter then has all the inertia in the flywheel to help get the thing over TDC compression and the cylinder has had the help of a few squirts of diesel to lubricate the rings and possibly raise the compression temperature.

 

N

 

 

 

 

On the other hand one can get a situation where the diesel washes away the oil already there and reduces the compression. The rings are going to be designed to use a reasonably thick oil like a 30 or something not a diesel fuel oil. 

 

I'm not all that convinced that a lot of cranking and injecting of fuel is necessarily a Good Thing on a diesel engine if the aim is to start it. It seems to be liable to reduce compression which is obviously the key to starting a compression ignition engine. 

 

I remember that Volvo did a marine engine where they deliberately delayed the fuel injection so that the engine cranked for a while in order to pump lube oil up through the channels before putting fuel in. 

 

 

 

 

[BEngo]

You would be cranking for a helluva long time to get enough diesel to wash anything!  The typical 10-15 hp per cylinder boat diesel is injecting a diesel  volume about the same as the head of a pin.

 

The injection does break up the volume of diesel into tiny droplets and some of those evaporate,  increasing the density of the stuff in the cylinder.   Volumetric efficiency is carp at cranking speeds, so not all of the vapour goes out of the exhaust.  When compression is restored  the  higher density is helpful in raising the temperature and the presence of vapour ( rather than having to wait for a droplet to boil)   encourages ignition. N

 

 

[truckcab79]

13 hours ago, john.k said:

The armature doesnt move ,in fact it has a retainer  circlip on the commutator end ......the pinion is moved by a primary coil inside the yoke ,and a very old trick with a non functioning starter was to knock out the allly plug ,and attack the copper terminals inside  with a sharpened hacksaw blade............Everything about CA45s is extravagently costly ,and IMHO ,they are best discarded and replaced by one of the little high speed geared starters.............assuming you can get one with the correct rotation.

Sorry. I missed this. What starters are you referring to?  I assume a more modern direct replacement?   

 

 

 

 

also found this. 
 

http://www.varen4u.nl/pdfs/coventry/Victor.pdf

Edited September 14, 2023 by truckcab79

[PaulJ]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

 

On the other hand one can get a situation where the diesel washes away the oil already there and reduces the compression. The rings are going to be designed to use a reasonably thick oil like a 30 or something not a diesel fuel oil. 

 

I'm not all that convinced that a lot of cranking and injecting of fuel is necessarily a Good Thing on a diesel engine if the aim is to start it. It seems to be liable to reduce compression which is obviously the key to starting a compression ignition engine. 

 

You should tell that to my Sabb2j.

The only engine to date Ive never managed to hand start from cold- and thats without chucking any extra oil down the caps to increase the compression 😀

[john.k]

Cheapest aid to starting is a magic yellow spraycan.

[truckcab79]

4 hours ago, john.k said:

Cheapest aid to starting is a magic yellow spraycan.

As in easy-start?

[john.k]

Yes ..........also sold here as "Start Ya Bastard" .....yes ,thats the actual name on the can!

[MtB]

Just now, john.k said:

Yes ..........also sold here as "Start Ya Bastard" .....yes ,thats the actual name on the can!

 

I find a blowlamp cheaper, more effective and less prone to causing detonation in the combustion chamber. 

 

 

[john.k]

If its anything like my blowlamp ,it will do a flamethrower act and set the boat on fire ......incidentally ,the engine seems to have a brass cap on the head .....is it supposed to have a piece of smouldering punk in the enclosure under the cap?

[magnetman]

I asked this earlier. That is the decompressor. 

[MtB]

54 minutes ago, john.k said:

If its anything like my blowlamp ,it will do a flamethrower act and set the boat on fire .....

 

Its nothing like yours then.

 

 

[magnetman]

As for the decompressor it seems to me that one would press the brass button down with one hand while winding with the other. 

All a decompressor does is partly open one of the valves. As this engine will have top mounted vertically operating valves it seems likely that the decompressor just consists of a button with a rod under it leading to the relevant valve. No need for anything complicated or locking levers. 

 

You lean on the top button with one hand, wind it over with the other listen to the injector cracking and get it going. 

 

I like this engine. 

 

 

 

 

[truckcab79]

10 hours ago, magnetman said:

I asked this earlier. That is the decompressor.

 

If turning it over on the starter do you lean on it until it starts?  From what I recall it pops back up as it turns if you don’t. Might have imagined that.

Would it pop up when turning over or would there only be enough pressure once it fires.   Don’t think the mechanic held it down.  Should have videoed what he was doing in hindsight. 🙄

Just been reading that manual I found online so to answer my own question:    Hold decompressor knob down.  Release when you’ve got some speed up. Faster you’re spinning it the easier it’ll start. 👍

Edited September 15, 2023 by truckcab79

[agg221]

Something else to bear in mind with this engine is that many of the wearing parts may be interchangeable with others from different engines, or at least close enough that they can be adapted. Bearings, pistons, liners (if fitted) are possible, roller bearings and gears in the gearbox are almost certain. You are unlikely to find much off the shelf, but if you don't have any immediate problems and run a regular search for spares on Ebay and Facebook you stand a good chance of building up a few bits, and if you find out dimensions for the other parts they may well be possible to source.

 

Have you seen the blueprint on Ebay?

 

Alec

[truckcab79]

16 minutes ago, agg221 said:

Something else to bear in mind with this engine is that many of the wearing parts may be interchangeable with others from different engines, or at least close enough that they can be adapted. Bearings, pistons, liners (if fitted) are possible, roller bearings and gears in the gearbox are almost certain. You are unlikely to find much off the shelf, but if you don't have any immediate problems and run a regular search for spares on Ebay and Facebook you stand a good chance of building up a few bits, and if you find out dimensions for the other parts they may well be possible to source.

 

Have you seen the blueprint on Ebay?

 

Alec

No.  I haven’t.  Will have a search.  I had a look at that Victor website someone posted earlier and they list quite a few parts but I’m 

pretty sure its no longer operational and the phone number never gets answered.  

2 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

No.  I haven’t.  Will have a search.  I had a look at that Victor website someone posted earlier and they list quite a few parts but I’m 

pretty sure its no longer operational and the phone number never gets answered.  

 

 

Found it.  Very cool. 

[john.k]

Yes I see the decompressor knob,but down the side of the head is a brass cap with a chain on it ......seems too small for an oil filler ...........incidentally .the big Ruston and Hornsbys had a sort of chamber under the intake manifold that could swing out and be filled with diesel and set afire ..........there were two in the motor in my RB crane .........I never used them as the motor was direct injection and started easily.

[truckcab79]

2 hours ago, john.k said:

Yes I see the decompressor knob,but down the side of the head is a brass cap with a chain on it ......seems too small for an oil filler ...........incidentally .the big Ruston and Hornsbys had a sort of chamber under the intake manifold that could swing out and be filled with diesel and set afire ..........there were two in the motor in my RB crane .........I never used them as the motor was direct injection and started easily.

Ah.  Think I know what you mean.  Don’t think there’s anything written on it but that’s where you fill with oil to start it. Take off cap which has a plunger attached. Fill with oil.  Unscrew knurled knob on side to let oil flow into cylinder, push plunger back in, tighten knurled knob so compression doesn’t pop the plunger out, then turn engine over.  

[john.k]

The starter pictured on ebay is a late model CA 45 ,and has two switch terminals ,the boat one has only one ....I have some of the manuals for the CA45 ,but as they went up to a F and a G series ,I may not have them all ........the main difference was the number of armature lock balls in the pinion..........early starters had none but the G series had six balls ,and some of the others had only 3 balls..............incidentally ,if the pinion wont engage ,thats where the hacksaw blade comes in.........the secondary terminals inside the yoke are scraped  clean ...........There is a simple way of testing ,hook up the battery leads ,stand on the pinion (with a work boot) and touch the switch terminal ......the secondary contacts  are closed by the pinion moving out,and as soon as that happens ,the starter will go full power and grind a hole in your boot...............never pull the pinion out by hand .....it will rip your hand to pieces.

Edited September 16, 2023 by john.k

[Kieron G]

I run a Coventry Victor HDW in our boat. The twin cylinder engine. 

I chose to put it in as i wanted an affordable vintage engine. 

As mentioned before the alternator will be driven by a link belt from the back of the crankshaft which you make to size. 

Re starting and reliability,  ours is always a good starter using the dash pots and the decompressor with a small amount of throttle,  I spin the engine up to speed with the starter motor then let the decompressor go. Once warm it will start with a flick of the starter, no need to decompress, personally I never use easy start. 

I have seen  glow plugs tapped into the inlet on these but I haven't got that on the engine we run. 

For spare parts I've bought a couple of scrap engines off ebay very cheap, they do come up now and then. 

I had a few sets of head gaskets made by 'Gaskets to go' in Thailand, I sent a pattern over. They are excellent. 

Just changed leaking rear crank seal which I measured and sourced from 'simply bearings'. 

We take ours out on tidal Ouse and Trent so have complete faith in it, as long as the diesel is clean.

The Coventry Victor site is dead but useful for part numbers, I even visited the address in Chipping Norton I think but the place was empty. 

To sum up I think these engines are great, hope yours proves to be a good one.