Hi guys my girlfriend and me have just bought a 52ft david piper boat and we want to know which insulation to use

[tyrone1990]

Hi guys my girlfriend and me have just bought a 52ft david piper boat and we want to know which insulation to use

 

We have seen that closed cell is the best but the most expensive and also its been hard to get someone able to do the job soon, rockwool seems to be second best, then theres celotex, fibreglass and more... there are just too many

 

We have the money but time is not on our side as we are moving into the boat in the next 5 weeks so needs to be done asap 

 

And Oh yh the batons on the inside of the boat are around 25mm which is why I am thinking that maybe its best to use closed cell foam atm as itll mean that the existing batons inside the boat dont have to all be replaced with 50mm batons for example

 

 

Thanks for your time and we appreciate the help guys!

 

Tyrone and Agathe

[nicknorman]

Is this a strip out and refit? Spray foam is the best IMO, best insulation per inch of thickness (and internal space is at a premium). Rockwool can suffer from holding moisture - moisture from condensation on the cold steel - if there are any air spaces, which there probably will be. So celotex would be my second choice, polystyrene my third and rockwool my fourth.

[magnetman]

Rockwool is fine if you keep a dry boat by having plenty of ventilation, a fire going well in winter and sensible behaviour. Not too much steamy windows. 

 

If the boat tends to be at all damp then rockwool may well let you down. 

 

Also its nasty to handle. 

 

I would not rule it out if it is a retrofit of an existing boat. 

 

If this boat is currently fitted out then what insulation does it have? 

 

Have you thought very carefully about refitting? It is a massive job and a lot of people get caught out. 

 

Maybe you've bought a boat someone else has already had a bad time with. 

 

 

 

 

[BEngo]

Wot Nick said.  IF you are going to do a full strip and refit. Spray foam all the way.

 

  If not, and it is a stage by stage job celotex or kingspan is much the best.  Pay attention to maintaining a vapour barrier,  taping up all joints and making sure that each stage is properly connected to the previous one. Otherwise your boat will rust from the inside out.

Polystyrene needs to be fire retardant type,  is messier and  should be kept separate from PVC cable insulation as it reacts with the plasticiser and the cables sink into the polystyrene, reducing its insulating quality.  Some have claimed that the de-plasticised cable, which has brittle insulation is then likely to be a fire hazard. I do not agree with this as the cable is held firmly by the polystyrene.

 

Rock wool is just unsuited. As well as the faults listed, it tends to slump so, on the sides,  there is no insulation at the top and the bottom is crushed and ineffective.  Again you need a vapour barrier and you have to create all of it as there is no smooth face to rock wool.

 

 

N

[LadyG]

Welcome to the forum, be prepared for a baptism by fire.

If you look on YouTube you might find fitting out examples.

The narrowboat that James built. 475 vlogs!

I would examine windows etc for leaks, rot, and rust, best to deal with these or they will come back to haunt you. 

Celotex or Kingspan are better than rockwool or polystyrene. 

Good luck.

Edited September 11, 2023 by LadyG

[magnetman]

Rockwool is a much maligned material. 

 

On a boat one should always design so that it will remain dry inside. Damp is the enemy. Ventilation needed. If you have a damp boat its bad whatever the insulation is. 

 

Rockwool is good at filling spaces which might otherwise be awkward to completely fill with insulation material. This could be the case on a boat which has been partly stripped where the intention is to refit it. 

 

It is also fire retardant. 

 

It is also a good sound insulator. 

 

Don't rule it out. 

 

Do research about different materials. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, tyrone1990 said:

We have the money but time is not on our side as we are moving into the boat in the next 5 weeks so needs to be done asap 

 

 

This bit I'm not getting. A boat can be moved without insulation. 

 

Can you give a bit more detail about what exactly you want insulated? 

 

Or a lot of detail?!

 

 

[magnetman]

Mention of batons (battens) makes me think this is a boat which has been partly stripped out. 

Nightmare material if so and the old phrase "I hope you two have a very good relationship" comes to mind. September. 

 

Hmm. 

 

If there is no fire that is the first job. Fire and lots of coal otherwise Bad Things happen. 

 

 

 

[LadyG]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

This bit I'm not getting. A boat can be moved without insulation. 

 

Can you give a bit more detail about what exactly you want insulated? 

 

Or a lot of detail?!

 

 

I'm assuming he wants to strip out his boat and refit, the lot!

And move on board full time in five weeks.

I assume that because of the timescale and the apparent high degree of optimism!

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by LadyG

[dmr]

Sprayfoam is regarded as the best, and cellotex type stuff as the next.

Sprayfoam is the quickest but unless you are skilled and experienced its best to pay a professional, and the whole boat needs to be stripped out and done in a single day.

Cellotex takes longer and all the gaps need to be sealed. If you do a right proper top job then Cellotex might just outperform sprayfoam, but a top job would take a while to do.

[tyrone1990]

Thanks for the replies guys, these are the photos of the boat

The boat is currently half stripped, 60% of the boat is currently insulated with fibreglass insulation as the previous owner began stripping the boat and then gave up. It seems a shame to rip out the insulation thats there but I guess in order to do this properly it'll be spray foam then!

 

Is it worth insulating the floor at all, just because spray foaming that may be a problem if the ballast needs attention, 

And also should i do the electrics after the spray foam insulation? As I was going to leave that to last

 

Thanks guys

[magnetman]

Good luck with that. 

 

It looks very demoralising to me. 

 

If you are intending to spend a lot of time sorting it out I wish you the best of luck. I know I couldn't do it but some can. Just don't forget the effect of actually being in there. 

 

Looks like a job for a pro but that would be very expensive. 

[tyrone1990]

Also some polystyrene has been used! 

I want to do the spray insulation myself, I have used spray foam quite alot but I know that this is a totally different ball game and its something worth getting done properly as everything else will be done by me!😁

[magnetman]

 

Enormous windows... 

 

 

[IanD]

Moving in in 5 weeks? Wow... 😞

[MtB]

I think five years would be a more realistic timescale, not five weeks.

 

 

[magnetman]

It is far more work than it may at first appear. 

 

 

[IanD]

Just now, magnetman said:

 

Enormous windows... 

 

 

I'm not sure the type of insulation will make much difference to how cold it gets in winter with those...

[magnetman]

Some people can really get their skates on. 

 

Does it need rewiring, plumbing etc ?

Just now, IanD said:

I'm not sure the type of insulation will make much difference to how cold it gets in winter with those...

 

Indeed plus privacy, security and heat gain in summer. These things matter a lot when you live on the boat. 

 

They are too big it was built as a boat to be used during the boating season by leisure users for holidays. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, tyrone1990 said:

And also should i do the electrics after the spray foam insulation? As I was going to leave that to last

 

 

Are your aware of the requirements for wiring a boat ?

 

You cannot just use 'domestic' twin and earth cable, you must use lexible standaed cables of certain sizes.

The size you use is not determined by the current rating or the appliances it is powering but by the volt drop - do you know how to work out volt drop?

 

There are ISO / BS standards for 'small boat wiring' for both low voltage DC and 230v AC.

 

Are you going to be redoing the gas system as well ?

 

Where are you doing the fit out ? (on land or in the water)

Do you have access to electricity, space to store big sheets of wood, etc etc and parking for your car ?

 

I honestly think that achieving 5 months is more realistic (assuming working on the boat full time).

[LadyG]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

I'm not sure the type of insulation will make much difference to how cold it gets in winter with those...

I think I'd make this a bit of a project to sell on, maybe tidy it up ,  some nice curtains, and put it on Ebay.

I don't think it is ever going to be a year round liveaboard.

If thats not going to suit, I'd be making some Celotex shutters, and be prepared for very cold damp winter.

I'm not sure what kind of boat this is,  could it have been a trip boat? 

17 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It is far more work than it may at first appear. 

 

 

Otherwise the previous owner would have finished it.

 

[magnetman]

14 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think I'd make this a bit of a project to sell on, maybe tidy it up ,  some nice curtains, and put it on Ebay.

I don't think it is ever going to be a year round liveaboard.

If thats not going to suit, I'd be making some Celotex shutters, and be prepared for very cold damp winter.

I'm not sure what kind of boat this is,  could it have been a trip boat? 

Otherwise the previous owner would have finished it.

 

 

Pipers did do a few pleasure boats with large windows. 

 

I recall one called Lark Rise. There was a bit of a theme in the 80s of having picture windows because the scenery is so pleasant. 

 

Possibly a hire boat although I'm not sure Piper made boats for other companies. I think they were mostly about private pleasure craft. 

[David Mack]

Looking at those pictures you really need to strip out completely back to bare steel, clean off all that rust and then paint the inside of the steelwork before you even think about battening out insulating, wiring, lining out and then adding internal furniture.

If you are really moving aboard in 5 weeks I would suggest you first put a (temporary) bulkhead and door halfway down the boat, move into one half using it as best you can, then strip out and refit the other end completely. Then change ends and repeat.

You will only be living in half the boat, but it will keep your domestic stuff separate from the refitting. And it will give you the opportunity to do the job properly. It will inevitably involve some compromises where services cross between the two halves, as well as a possible need for temporary bathroom and kitchen facilities, but it will be a better job in the end. And by keeping the refit separate from the domestic living you can always just shut the communicating door and take a break from refitting if it all gets too much.

[tyrone1990]

Yes I am aware of the standards, for the electricity Ill be doing that but the gas no, even though there are copper pipes for the gas but theyve been disconnected. Also there are pipes for the hot and cold water. 

 

In regards to the boat itself, I didnt notice the windows tbh, I think they are large they could be reduced in size I guess or we could remove a couple.

I am a general handyman and i work in maintenance so I dont find the work too daunting. But the 5 weeks is to have insulation and the sub floor, walls and ceiling finished. Then doing the wall panels, the floor, the electrics plumbing, will hopefully be started before we move in with some help of course from friends!

I'm optimistic! But I know there will be at least a handful of problems along the way for sure

[magnetman]

Lots of big windows 

 

http://www.piperowners.co.uk/Library3.htm

1 minute ago, tyrone1990 said:

Yes I am aware of the standards, for the electricity Ill be doing that but the gas no, even though there are copper pipes for the gas but theyve been disconnected. Also there are pipes for the hot and cold water. 

 

In regards to the boat itself, I didnt notice the windows tbh, I think they are large they could be reduced in size I guess or we could remove a couple.

I am a general handyman and i work in maintenance so I dont find the work too daunting. But the 5 weeks is to have insulation and the sub floor, walls and ceiling finished. Then doing the wall panels, the floor, the electrics plumbing, will hopefully be started before we move in with some help of course from friends!

I'm optimistic! But I know there will be at least a handful of problems along the way for sure

 

Do you have much experience of living in very small spaces? 

 

The timing is a bit awkward as winter comes fast.

 

Are you intending to be on a mooring perhaps with electric and vehicle access or on the towpath?