Unable to bleed fuel filter after filter change

[Simon P]

Hi All

Beta Marine red engine 3 cylinder 28HP 1993 year of manufacture.
Am struggling to bleed fuel filter after replacing it.

Iv’e turned on the fuel again and expected the filter to fill with the top vent screw removed but nothing.

can’t find any manual pump to operate or any other bleed screws,

any advice please?

 

[MtB]

How high is the level in the diesel tank in relation to the filter vent screw? If it is about the same or lower you aren't going to bleed it by gravity!

 

If desperate, have you tried reading the manual?

 

[Chewbacka]

Certainly on later engines the filter housing has a large mushroom button on top which is a manual priming pump, presumably you don’t have one?

[Simon P]

Will have a look tomorrow and perhaps add more fuel.

it’s got over 1/4 of a tank full

The Beta Marine Manual that came with the boat is pretty useless on this.

[MtB]

Just now, Simon P said:

Will have a look tomorrow and perhaps add more fuel.

it’s got over 1/4 of a tank full

The Beta Marine Manual that came with the boat is pretty useless on this.

 

And where is the tank? 

 

Below the filter I bet. 

 

[nicknorman]

Failing the above (mushroom plunger on fuel filter) or an electric lift pump, you will have to operate the engine driven lift pump. There will be a small lever protruding from the engine pump that allows manual operation.

[Simon P]

1 minute ago, Chewbacka said:

Certainly on later engines the filter housing has a large mushroom button on top which is a manual priming pump, presumably you don’t have one?

Nope there’s nothing like that. I’ve seen them on the newer beat marine green engines.

can’t find a lift pump buts there’s so little room in there.

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

And where is the tank? 

 

Below the filter I bet. 

 

May well be. Will stick a couple of Jerry cans in tomorrow.

Was running fine till I changed the filter😢

Strange I can’t see a manual lift pump lever or anything else except the water trap and fuel in the fuel lines to the main pump.

[Tony Brooks]

The Betas I have seen provide a highish volume return to the tank from the filter and the injector pump union (as well as the injectors). That is intended to make them self bleeding. If your engine is like this, then tighten all the bleed screws, ensure your start battery is well charged, loosen one injector pipe, and spin the engine on the starter in 30 second bursts until the injector union spits/drips fuel and the engine will probably try to run on the other two cylinders until you tighten the union. Half a turn of loosening is enough.

[nicknorman]

On our 2011 Beta 43 there is a little knurled knob on the injector pump, this needs to be open (turned anti-clockwise) as it is something to do with the self-bleeding function. See pic. Of course your engine may not be the same.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by nicknorman

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

On our 2011 Beta 43 there is a little knurled knob on the injector pump, this needs to be open (turned anti-clockwise) as it is something to do with the self-bleeding function. See pic. Of course your engine may not be the same.

 

 

Exactly, others have no such screw or a hexagon. Perhaps the OP should post a photo of the fuel system side of the engine.

[blackrose]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

And where is the tank? 

 

Below the filter I bet. 

 

 

Why would any builder install a fuel system & filter above the tank? If that was the case it wouldn't have run before the filter change would it?

[nicknorman]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Why would any builder install a fuel system & filter above the tank? If that was the case it wouldn't have run before the filter change would it?

There’s no reason not to install a fuel system and filter above the tank. Our engine sits on the fuel tank, the bottom of which is the baseplate. This is a good location since it keeps the fuel tank at a fairly steady temperature thus avoiding condensation. We do have an electric lift pump but the engine will run fine without it. The engine has a built in lift pump (note the name!) as does pretty much every other modern engine

[blackrose]

Just seems odd not to use gravity to help feed the fuel lines. My tank sits above the fuel system.

Edited August 27, 2023 by blackrose

[Bee]

i keep a bottle of diesel to avoid bleeding the filter, remove the filter, fill to the brim with fuel, replace the thing and try to start the engine. Works on my Beta 43. It takes ages to try to pump it through any other way.

[rusty69]

17 minutes ago, Bee said:

i keep a bottle of diesel to avoid bleeding the filter, remove the filter, fill to the brim with fuel, replace the thing and try to start the engine. Works on my Beta 43. It takes ages to try to pump it through any other way.

Same here, though I use a syringe to fill the filter. The lift pump manual lever I find pretty useless on ours and usually resort to cranking the engine on the starter. 

[Tony Brooks]

15 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Just seems odd not to use gravity to help feed the fuel lines. My tank sits above the fuel system.

 

Better tell that to the majority of car and truck makers then. Some boats, even narrowboats have the fuel tanks sitting on the bottom of the swim. I think some of the genuine vintage boats are like this, as per a recent discussion on the forum. Apart from some vintage engines with day tanks I can't think of any engines without lift pumps, except for some Fords that used Bosch rotary injector pumps where is seems the transfer pump (in the injector pump) was man enough to do the job of a lift pump. The same injector pump on my Bukh also had a lift pump.

[Alan de Enfield]

45 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Why would any builder install a fuel system & filter above the tank? If that was the case it wouldn't have run before the filter change would it?

 

Our fuel filter etc is well above the tank - the bottom of the tank is some 4 feet below the fuel filter and the engine driven pump seems to cope fine.

 

I always fill the filter with fuel (either the fuel 'cannister' itself or the outer case if it is a seperate filter, or topping up thru the bleed hole) It makes proming priming and starting much easier.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Simon P]

Thanks all will do all of the above!

Got a large syringe I use for the batteries so will fill the filter too and stick 50 litres + in the tank.

it needs filling up so it’s something I gotta do anyway.

[nicknorman]

34 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Just seems odd not to use gravity to help feed the fuel lines. My tank sits above the fuel system.

Presumably then most or all of you tank is above the water line? It’s the same with many boats. Eventually they all suffer from an accumulation of water in the fuel tank. 1/2 empty tank = lots of moist air in the tank, and when the outside air temperature drops overnight such that dew forms on the ground, the same process happens in the tank - “dew” forms and trickles down to the bottom of the tank under the diesel where it can no longer evaporate when the temperature rises the next day. Years can go by without problem, but eventually the level of water rises until it gets up to the fuel take-off level. That is, if diesel bug hasn’t got there first.

[Simon P]

Previous owner and now us have been adding Marine 19 to the tank as well.

Just in case. I intend to keep the tank as full as possible too.

[ditchcrawler]

E:\DWG\Engines\100-99550 02 bd1005-he-prm80-65amp inch.dwg (betamarinenw.com) Engine drawing use the link to expand it. It shows the lift pimp and priming lever

 

 

 

 

Instruction Manual beta small engine ref 1590 (betamarinenw.com) 

Edited August 27, 2023 by ditchcrawler

[ditchcrawler]

[BEngo]

3 hours ago, Simon P said:

Got a large syringe I use for the batteries so will fill the filter too and stick 50 litres + in the tank.

Once you have used the syringe for diesel do not put it anywhere near your batteries. Sulphuric acid and diesel do not go together.

 

N

[Bee]

3 hours ago, Simon P said:

Previous owner and now us have been adding Marine 19 to the tank as well.

Just in case. I intend to keep the tank as full as possible too.

Hard to know what is best really, the bottom half inch or so of my tank, mild steel, integral with the hull, is not very nice, the inevitable water that collects gets a bit of diesel bug and the water rusts the steel, the result is a rather nasty layer. The diesel is drawn from above that layer and every year I unbolt the inspection lid and do what I can to get the stuff out. I'm starting to think that a stainless or aluminium tank seperate from the hull might be the best solution. I used to add stuff to the fuel but frankly I don't think they were very effective.

[Tacet]

8 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Presumably then most or all of you tank is above the water line? It’s the same with many boats. Eventually they all suffer from an accumulation of water in the fuel tank. 1/2 empty tank = lots of moist air in the tank, and when the outside air temperature drops overnight such that dew forms on the ground, the same process happens in the tank - “dew” forms and trickles down to the bottom of the tank under the diesel where it can no longer evaporate when the temperature rises the next day. Years can go by without problem, but eventually the level of water rises until it gets up to the fuel take-off level. That is, if diesel bug hasn’t got there first.

Why is condensation not a regular problem in a typical car?