Blacking costs

[Markypoo]

Many thanks for all the comments. Perhaps unjustified but acknowledged. May I allucidate?

"Perhaps that was your own fault, mooring next to a major trunk road for 8 weeks with the acidic run off surrounding your boat during the wettest Winter on record." 

The blacking is only peeling off on the starboard side so perhaps the vehicle emmisions from the road (about a mile away) that are affecting the paintwork are only from the Northbound traffic. If these emmisions can strip 2 pack epoxy from a prepared hull then why has my skin not peeled off and why am I still breathing at 68 years old having lived for most of this time in some of the busiest cities in the world and it certainly ws not the wettest winter on record If you want to use statistics then use correct ones,

"That could be why the Epoxy is falling off - it wasn't properly removed" !

I reiterate, the epoxy used was SML 2 pack that can, according to the manufacturer and end user, can be applied OVER existing bitumen. The left, port, larboard side has no problems"

 

" when it would need the bitumen taken off as well seems like a cheap job. I'll be interested in reading more comments.That could be why the "Epoxy is falling off - it wasn't properly removed !"

£1850, If you think this is cheap then you are a lucky person.

 

"The time you said " well respected marina/ workshop " shows your naivety and lack of use of the forum search facility."

The well respected builders/brokers paint warranty fails and history of blacking boats also has featured heavily."

My first time using this forum, please accept for humble apologies for not following your strict rules, I will cut a fresh branch from the nearest tree and self flagilate until I become unconcious. Unless cutting the branch upsets you of course. To help you sleep at night I won't use the forum again.

"I would not have anyone do anything if I'm not there, they may talk the talk, but if you don't supervise the work you are likely to get a sub optimum job, in my experience."

Good luck if you need an operation. May be a bit uncomfortable without an anaetheticso you can tell the surgeon how to do his/her job. Do you enjoy being told how to do your job by someone who has paid you to do a professional job.

Pontificate, now that's a word to add to all your vocabularies.

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, Markypoo said:

... and it certainly ws not the wettest winter on record If you want to use statistics then use correct ones,

 

Central England and East Midlands have been confirmed as the wettest Winter...Dec, Jan and Feb since regional records began over 150 years ago...Met Office.

Also...

 

 

I know you are obviously an expert in these things but...

All the run off high water drainage holes from the A5 exit the bridge in a series of vents about a foot above the water on the South side. These enter the canal in a series of waterfalls....and swiftly move east (along your starboard side as you were moored for most of your mooring time) towards the local towpath side sluice about 300 yards away just before the next bridge. There can be a serious flow here in the kind of rainfall we have experienced this winter. 

 

 

 

Edited March 5 by matty40s

[Arthur Marshall]

4 hours ago, Markypoo said:

Many thanks for all the comments. Perhaps unjustified but acknowledged. May I allucidate?
!"

£1850, If you think this is cheap then you are a lucky person.

My first time using this forum, please accept for humble apologies for not following your strict rules, I will cut a fresh branch from the nearest tree and self flagilate until I become unconcious. Unless cutting the branch upsets you of course. To help you sleep at night I won't use the forum again.

"I would not have anyone do anything if I'm not there, they may talk the talk, but if you don't supervise the work you are likely to get a sub optimum job, in my experience."

Good luck if you need an operation. May be a bit uncomfortable without an anaetheticso you can tell the surgeon how to do his/her job. Do you enjoy being told how to do your job by someone who has paid you to do a professional job.

Pontificate, now that's a word to add to all your vocabularies.

Oh gods , another one.

When you come on a forum and ask for opinions, that's what you get. That's sort if how it works. The fact you may not agree with them doesn't entitle you to start slinging insults about , it just makes you look a prat.

It cost me £1000 to black a forty foot thin boat. Less than twice that to do something more than twice as big does look relatively cheap, in my opinion. I may be wrong, but there again, I may not. The fact that half of it has fallen off tends to make me think I'm right and you got what you paid for, instead of stumping up for a proper job.

It's the experience of almost every long term boater that unless you keep an eye on what's being done, it gets bodged. Again, you didn't, and it was. If you're fool enough not to listen to advice, and idiotic enough to insult those who suggest ways you could avoid repeating your mistakes, , you're heading for another crap job for exactly the same reasons and, tbh, serve you damn well right.

[matty40s]

He took it in the dampest, most miserable November, to get it 2 packed over existing shite covering in an unheated warehouse(if it WAS done inside)and was launched again within a week.

Then took it back again, mid Feb, in the wettest, most humid Feb in records.. 

to the same damp, unheated warehouse....

Nothing more to add really

 

Ok, I will come back and add something..

If you listen.

Ask for it to be done in late June

Pay for 2 weeks.

Make sure it is pressure washed properly. 

Get it 2 packed, properly...not just the waterline as the 2nd coat( forum search is recommended 😎)

Then it has a good drying time of up to 10 days before going back in.

Hope this helps, I do this for a living....

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, matty40s said:

He took it in the dampest, most miserable November, to get it 2 packed over existing shite covering in an unheated warehouse(if it WAS done inside)and was launched again within a week.

Then took it back again, mid Feb, in the wettest, most humid Feb in records.. 

to the same damp, unheated warehouse....

Nothing more to add really

 

 

 

[MtB]

I do find myself wondering if there is a bit of previous between the OP and Matty. 

 

Perhaps the OP got a quote from Matty's place and told them to stick it, possibly quite rudely. And went with the other, much cheaper place that cuts every corner to get the price down.

 

Just a wild guess. 

 

 

[matty40s]

Nothing at all Mike,  we wouldnt take a wide beam as we only have a narrow dock.

 

There are a massive raft of newbys coming in who dont plan ahead, dont investigate, and blame everybody else for what happens.....

My only moan about the widebeam in question is where he chooses to moor, making it almost impossible to get other wideboats past on some occasions, and compromising navigation for other boats...luckily at a quiet time of year.

Had this been Easter onwards, he would undoubtedly have been hit more than once.

 

The only bloke on here who thought that boatyard was ace and well regarded was JoethePlumber, he is probably still advertising them now if he actually exists.

[LadyG]

On 24/08/2023 at 18:28, jonesthenuke said:

We had our boat blasted and 2 packed with Dacrylate. About 4 years later we had it dry docked for anodes, some painting and to check the 2 pack  coating which was very good. I gave it another 2 coats of 2 pack , this time with Hempel Hempadur.   Hempel recommended pressure washing plus lightly abrading the surface with a wire brush in an angle grinder in order to provide an adequate key. 

 

You may need to follow the same process, the wire brushing is not hard work but adds about a day to the process as the large area means it takes a lot of time.

I paid the yard to pressure wash and brush with cupped wire brushes, I wanted this done on the day it was hauled out, it saved me a day, which is important with epoxy.

I started the two pack coating on day2, as soon as the dew point passed, I got three coats on the vulnerable areas, the boat then had a week to cure before relaunch. 

I had told the yard I expected them to spend four hours on prep with wire cupped brushes, so they should be ready to work as quickly as possible, it can all be done on day1.

Obviously a badly rusted hull would need more, and grit blasting would be better, that's a much bigger job.

I bought a narrowboat coating kit from SML paints, plenty of paint, and all the right materials delivered in one package.  

I had eight days in perfect weather mid summer, which contributed to the success of the project.

 

Edited March 6 by LadyG

[john.k]

Any kind of 2 pac needs a key to stick to ...the dry film strength of the cured paint is such that it overcomes adhesion to the base ,unless there is an adequate "profile" ..profile is created by grit blasting ,and only needs to be done once ,when the plate is new ,to remove mill scale .............afterwards ,the use of HP water is quite sufficient ..............water can blast down to clean metal ,but the profile must be there for paint adhesion.

[Markypoo]

8 hours ago, matty40s said:

Nothing at all Mike,  we wouldnt take a wide beam as we only have a narrow dock.

 

There are a massive raft of newbys coming in who dont plan ahead, dont investigate, and blame everybody else for what happens.....

My only moan about the widebeam in question is where he chooses to moor, making it almost impossible to get other wideboats past on some occasions, and compromising navigation for other boats...luckily at a quiet time of year.

Had this been Easter onwards, he would undoubtedly have been hit more than once.

 

The only bloke on here who thought that boatyard was ace and well regarded was JoethePlumber, he is probably still advertising them now if he actually exists.

 

[Markypoo]

"My only moan about the widebeam in question is where he chooses to moor, making it almost impossible to get other wideboats past on some occasions, and compromising navigation for other boats...luckily at a quiet time of year.

Had this been Easter onwards, he would undoubtedly have been hit more than once."

 

Matty40s seems to be very well aware of my boat and location which also makes me aware of his. The only way he would know of the boatyatd of whom I speak is if I spoken to him personally and stating that he has a narrow dock narrows it down. I will confirm that I did not seek any remedial work from Matty40s and I have never been rude to him, nor anyone else for that matter so Mtb's "Wild Guess" is quite unfounded and uncalled for.

If matty40s is one of the two gentlemen with whom I spoke about the blacking then he would recall that I said that the blacking is peeling off ABOVE the waterline up to the top rubbing strake only so how is the "run off from the A5" affecting above the waterline and not below it? 

There have been no issues/comments with other widebeams passing me,  to the contrary I have received passing comments from both wide beams and narrowboats going through the A5 bridge about boats for sale moored there being a hazard. Kettle pot black comes to mind. Perhaps I'll call in on my way past in  a week or so he can moan at me directly and call me stupid to my face. There's nothing like calling your customers stupid to boost your business.
......and just for Arthur Marshall, yes there are "Newbies" who may come to forums to seek advice or positive recomendations for future reference. Responses of  "tbh serve you damn well right" and calling someone stupid and an idiot isn't the way to make friends or influence people but demonstrates your own rudeness and character. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

@Markypoo if you wanted to be taken seriously I would of picked a better Forum name, as that names just crap 😂

Edited March 6 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, Markypoo said:

.
......and just for Arthur Marshall, yes there are "Newbies" who may come to forums to seek advice or positive recomendations for future reference. Responses of  "tbh serve you damn well right" and calling someone stupid and an idiot isn't the way to make friends or influence people but demonstrates your own rudeness and character. 

Terribly sorry to hurt your tender feelings. I was responding to the sheer unnecessary rudeness in your original reply to a couple of members' attempts to provide helpful advice. You appear to have little interest in making friends or being influenced by well meant suggestions so unfortunately the only way you are going to learn is by experience. Good luck with that, it certainly doesn't seem to have worked so far.

[Bee]

Couple of observations. Bee has only ever had bitumen above the waterline and two pack below. The waterline is not an accurately measured and plotted thing, the present epoxy is bright red (it was a bit cheaper) and the waterline now looks awful as the bitumen has not stuck to the epoxy and come off in big pieces the epoxy though seems to have stuck to the bitumen, it is Jotun 90 and 'surface tolerant'. The first ever paint below the waterline was Sigma and it was a coal tar epoxy, this stuff is now banned everywhere that we float and when we changed to Jotun it bled through the Jotun, some solvent must have softened it but it still seems to have stuck. I wonder if newish and smoothish bitumen is overcoatable but years of thick layers of bitumen is not? Anyway, Bee is out of the water this June so we will see. Bee was in brackish water for a couple of years so now has a horrible layer of barnacles everywhere plus a ton of Zebra mussels so heaven only knows what is happening.

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, Markypoo said:

"My only moan about the widebeam in question is where he chooses to moor, making it almost impossible to get other wideboats past on some occasions, and compromising navigation for other boats...luckily at a quiet time of year.

Had this been Easter onwards, he would undoubtedly have been hit more than once."

 

Matty40s seems to be very well aware of my boat and location which also makes me aware of his. The only way he would know of the boatyatd of whom I speak is if I spoken to him personally and stating that he has a narrow dock narrows it down. I will confirm that I did not seek any remedial work from Matty40s and I have never been rude to him, nor anyone else for that matter so Mtb's "Wild Guess" is quite unfounded and uncalled for.

If matty40s is one of the two gentlemen with whom I spoke about the blacking then he would recall that I said that the blacking is peeling off ABOVE the waterline up to the top rubbing strake only so how is the "run off from the A5" affecting above the waterline and not below it? 

There have been no issues/comments with other widebeams passing me,  to the contrary I have received passing comments from both wide beams and narrowboats going through the A5 bridge about boats for sale moored there being a hazard. Kettle pot black comes to mind. Perhaps I'll call in on my way past in  a week or so he can moan at me directly and call me stupid to my face. There's nothing like calling your customers stupid to boost your business.
......and just for Arthur Marshall, yes there are "Newbies" who may come to forums to seek advice or positive recomendations for future reference. Responses of  "tbh serve you damn well right" and calling someone stupid and an idiot isn't the way to make friends or influence people but demonstrates your own rudeness and character. 

Please point out to me where I called you stupid and an idiot.

I dont believe I have spoken to you about your blacking, and I believe the brokerage pays a hefty fee to CRT to moor boats there officially, mooring a large boat opposite them on a blind bend isnt the most sensible mooring option locally.

[Arthur Marshall]

40 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Please point out to me where I called you stupid and an idiot.

I dont believe I have spoken to you about your blacking, and I believe the brokerage pays a hefty fee to CRT to moor boats there officially, mooring a large boat opposite them on a blind bend isnt the most sensible mooring option locally.

I think it was me that mentioned the words " stupid" and "idiot", not you - I'd hate the wrong person to get battered!

[truckcab79]

Lovely to see another newbie welcomed with open arms. 🙄🙄🙄. 
 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

43 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Lovely to see another newbie welcomed with open arms. 🙄🙄🙄. 
 

 

If they didn't launch in with a stack of insults when they get comments intended to help and occasionally amuse, they wouldn't get that response. They wouldn't have lasted thirty seconds in the bad old Dunkley days.

Dunno what it is. You'd have thought people would know, how forums work by now , or perhaps they don't and think it's just like Facebook where nobody is really very interested, it's not a discussion, and the attention span is about that of a day's end mayfly.

[Peugeot 106]

3 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If they didn't launch in with a stack of insults when they get comments intended to help and occasionally amuse, they wouldn't get that response. They wouldn't have lasted thirty seconds in the bad old Dunkley days.

Dunno what it is. You'd have thought people would know, how forums work by now , or perhaps they don't and think it's just like Facebook where nobody is really very interested, it's not a discussion, and the attention span is about that of a day's end mayfly.

In fairness to new posters. I can’t be the only one who isn’t on any other forums, Facebook or any other social media. This forum has from time to time been very useful to me but having said that because of my experience here I’m certainly not in a rush to join any further forums. Maybe newcomers expect too much.  It takes a while to understand that amongst all the bollocks talked there is some very practical, useful information which would be difficult to find elsewhere. I had a rough ride from some participants when I joined. Some of this I thought was a bit childish and unnecessary but thankfully I stuck with it.

its a bit like going to a new local pub. It takes time to get accepted by the locals some of whom you will find aren’t worth bothering with anyway but hopefully you will make a few new friends who will be a big help.

One forum for me is enough

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

In fairness to new posters. I can’t be the only one who isn’t on any other forums, Facebook or any other social media. This forum has from time to time been very useful to me but having said that because of my experience here I’m certainly not in a rush to join any further forums. Maybe newcomers expect too much.  It takes a while to understand that amongst all the bollocks talked there is some very practical, useful information which would be difficult to find elsewhere. I had a rough ride from some participants when I joined. Some of this I thought was a bit childish and unnecessary but thankfully I stuck with it.

its a bit like going to a new local pub. It takes time to get accepted by the locals some of whom you will find aren’t worth bothering with anyway but hopefully you will make a few new friends who will be a big help.

One forum for me is enough

 

Having said all that, some posters are needlessly aggressive to new posters, quick to hurl insults, and seem to like nothing more than "seeing them off"... 😉 

 

Some newbies understandably respond in kind, and a tit-for-tat mudslinging contest results, and they often leave in a huff.

 

Sometimes the blame is on both sides, sometimes one, but it often seems to involve the same few long-standing posters... 😉 

 

Perhaps a little more tolerance and being less quick to wade in all guns blazing would help avoid this, and make the forum more friendly and welcoming?

 

Mind you I've suggested this before, and funnily enough it usually results in negative comments from the same posters I've referred to above... 😞 

Edited March 6 by IanD

[truckcab79]

15 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

In fairness to new posters. I can’t be the only one who isn’t on any other forums, Facebook or any other social media. This forum has from time to time been very useful to me but having said that because of my experience here I’m certainly not in a rush to join any further forums. Maybe newcomers expect too much.  It takes a while to understand that amongst all the bollocks talked there is some very practical, useful information which would be difficult to find elsewhere. I had a rough ride from some participants when I joined. Some of this I thought was a bit childish and unnecessary but thankfully I stuck with it.

its a bit like going to a new local pub. It takes time to get accepted by the locals some of whom you will find aren’t worth bothering with anyway but hopefully you will make a few new friends who will be a big help.

One forum for me is enough

This one is unique I assure you. 🙄. 

[Peugeot 106]

10 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

This one is unique I assure you. 🙄. 

I wouldn’t know😀   I did look at thunderboats though…………!

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

This one is unique I assure you. 🙄. 

There's certainly more real practical knowledge on CWDF than many forums and most social media, plus an index and a huge searchable history so stuff doesn't just disappear when it's more than a few days old -- which is pretty unique.

 

But I don't think the attitudes of some people on here are unique to CWDF... 😉 

[Andyaero]

So from a newbie.....who's the (apparently not so) well respected boatyard then, as they appear to be in my neck of the woods?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, Andyaero said:

So from a newbie.....who's the (apparently not so) well respected boatyard then, as they appear to be in my neck of the woods?

I’m trying to work out where the ‘Land of Pies’ and cheese is?

Id have thought somewhere North,

but this malarkey Is down Southish somewhere,

either way I don’t know what yard their on about,

is it Wilton Marina? it’s by the M1 and I think that’s where the fat boats hang out?