Electrical connections

[Deep]

Hi

Are these type of connectors acceptable in boat electrics?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/WAGO-221-413-ELECTRICAL-CONNECTOR-220-240V/dp/B01AKF3I58/ref=d_pd_sbs_sccl_4_2/257-7456632-3153727?pd_rd_w=JEueO&content-id=amzn1.sym.c633ef94-5925-4800-8916-1372f3be4382&pf_rd_p=c633ef94-5925-4800-8916-1372f3be4382&pf_rd_r=2P3PYEWNJZYDX99DK4NS&pd_rd_wg=1VWom&pd_rd_r=ae574588-3287-4986-9ff4-160484eaa05c&pd_rd_i=B01AKF3I58&psc=1

 

thanks.

[jonathanA]

personally I see no reason why not  providing they are inside the cabin and protected from damp etc.  I would not use them in the engine hole or outside  generally. Take a note of the current limitation and maximum cable size (4mm2).  its not uncommon to find 6mm and 10mm wire in use on Boat 12V stuff 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

I've used similar ones for creating ceiling lighting circuits, with corridor switches, so lots of connections to make. Makes wiring up much easier and saves the need to place ferrules on the multistrand wire, as you would if using many screw connections. As long as you stay within the wire size and current limits for the connector, all should be well.

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes - they are approved for boat use - on both DC and AC wiring.

 

Note para 10:4

 

(Wago are Friction connectors .......................)

 

INTERNATIONAL STANDARD ISO 10133 Second edition 2000-12-01

Small craft — Electrical systems — Extra-low-voltage d.c. installation

 

 

 

10.1 Conductor connections shall be in locations protected from the weather or in IP 55 enclosures, in accordance with IEC 60529 as a minimum. Connections above deck exposed to intermittent immersion shall be in IP 67 enclosures, in accordance with IEC 60529 as a minimum.

 

10.2 Metals used for terminal studs, nuts and washers shall be corrosion resistant and galvanically compatible with the conductor and terminal. Aluminium and unplated steel shall not be used for studs, nuts or washers in electrical circuits.

 

10.3 All conductors shall have suitable terminals installed, i.e. no bare wires attached to stud or screw connections.

 

10.4 Screw-clamp or screwless terminal blocks shall conform to IEC 60947-7-1. Other terminals shall be of the ring or self-locking captive-spade type, not dependent on screw or nut tightness alone for retention on the stud or screw. An exception is that friction-type connectors may be used in circuits not exceeding 20 A if the connection does not separate when subjected to a force of 20 N.

 

10.5 Twist-on connectors (wire nuts) shall not be used

 

 

 

INTERNATIONAL STANDARD ISO 13297 Second edition 2000-12-01

Small craft — Electrical systems — Alternating current installations

 

11.7 All conductors shall have suitable terminals installed, i.e. no bare wires attached to stud or screw connections.

 

11.8 Screw-clamp or screwless terminals shall conform to IEC 60947-7-1. Other terminals shall be of the ring or captive-spade type, not dependent on screw or nut tightness alone for retention on the screw or stud. Captive spade terminals shall be of the self-locking type. An exception is that friction-type connectors may be used in circuits not exceeding 20 A if the connection does not separate when subjected to a force of 20 N.

 

11.9 Twist-on connectors (wire nuts) shall not be used

[Deep]

Thank you for all your replies. I will be using them to tidy up various lighting circuits.

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, jonathanA said:

personally I see no reason why not  providing they are inside the cabin and protected from damp etc.  I would not use them in the engine hole or outside  generally. Take a note of the current limitation and maximum cable size (4mm2).  its not uncommon to find 6mm and 10mm wire in use on Boat 12V stuff 

 

 

6mm are available and no need to go to Amazon 

 

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Deep said:

Thank you for all your replies. I will be using them to tidy up various lighting circuits.

 

What's the advantage exactly over crimped connectors?

[Chewbacka]

27 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

What's the advantage exactly over crimped connectors?

You can join 2 to 5 wires in one connector.  

[blackrose]

26 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

You can join 2 to 5 wires in one connector.  

 

Yes but there are crimped connector blocks that can do the same thing.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Wago connectors main advantage is speed, which is why people doing lots of electrical work for a living like them. Followed by ease of use and fewer tools. Just need a wire stripper, set to the correct length of insulation removal. No additional crimper, or screwdriver required ready to hand.

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Wago connectors main advantage is speed, which is why people doing lots of electrical work for a living like them. Followed by ease of use and fewer tools. Just need a wire stripper, set to the correct length of insulation removal. No additional crimper, or screwdriver required ready to hand.

and you can break them out just as quickly if needed. I dont know about reuse 

[matty40s]

24 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes but there are crimped connector blocks that can do the same thing.

Far quicker to use, and can be used in small spaces if the wires are too short to pull out and where you cant get a crimper in.

[jonathanA]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

and you can break them out just as quickly if needed. I dont know about reuse 

Yes they are reusable which  is another advantage over crimped. I think a good wago connector is probably superior to a poor crimp. 

 

[Puffling]

Remember there are two species of WAGO connector. The species under discussion has small keys, which flip up to release the gripper.

 

The other species has no keys but simple holes in which to insert your stripped cable. You simply push the wire into the open end and wiggle it slightly (takes practice to get it right, but do a ceiling of ten downlighters with switches and you'll be expert) as you push. The bare conductor appears in a tiny transparent window beyond the internal crimp to indicate it has been inserted far enough. These WAGOs cannot be reused - you snip them off and start again if you need to make alterations.

 

With rather thick cables (6mm) I find these non-reusable ones are tricky to insert stranded conductors without getting a stray strand escaping the capture. It's for this reason I prefer the belt-and-braces approach of bootlace ferrules with the larger cables. The bootlace ferrule has a small, tapered insulated collar which  guides the cable in without catching a stray strand on the way. Crimped, the surface ridges seem to grip better in the WAGO than smooth copper conductors.

 

Or simply use the keyed type for everything and you'll never need a ferrule.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Puffling

[jonathanA]

9 hours ago, Puffling said:

These WAGOs cannot be reused - you snip them off and start again if you need to make alterations.

no you can reuse them,  you have to twist and pull - its a knack you have to practice.  Personally I wouldn't use the 2273/773 types on flexible stranded cables - why would you ? (other than cost maybe) 

 

I think I'm right in saying they max out at 2.5mm2 - just checked and they do for solid  but the data sheet says you can use them for 4/6mm stranded, which surprised me TBH. 

[magnetman]

I have used these ones before. The unbranded ones can be total junk. I've had the orange levers just breaking off on some of them. Real Wago are better. 

 

Similar story with fake Anderson SB50 connectors. The fakes -are- inferior. 

 

[Puffling]

2 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

no you can reuse them,  you have to twist and pull - its a knack you have to practice.  Personally I wouldn't use the 2273/773 types on flexible stranded cables - why would you ? (other than cost maybe) 

 

I think I'm right in saying they max out at 2.5mm2 - just checked and they do for solid  but the data sheet says you can use them for 4/6mm stranded, which surprised me TBH. 

Yes, I agree about the 773 types being listed as suitable for up to 6mm cable, but seemingly better for thinner gauges.

As for reusing this type by the twisting knack, I wouldn't want to trust the metal leaf insert after it had suffered wire pulled out against the direction of insertion, especially with thicker stranded cables.

 

The things cost pennies apiece anyway and the manufacturer prints on the box, "Cut wire, discard connector".

[Jen-in-Wellies]

For non Wago, but branded lever connectors, I've used these with success.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/ideal-32a-3-way-lever-connector-40-pack/287jk

Good for up to 4mm2.

Jen

[system 4-50]

Wagos are wonderful, I use them a lot, but you need to be properly trained to know they are pronounced Waygoes not Wargoes (Sorry, this should read Vargoes as per AdeE correction below) as the manufacturer would have you believe.  I understand this is just a 3 day course leading to a certificate.

There is a nice youtube showing that they stand up well when overloaded, taking a massive load before they melt & catch fire.

NB I only use the lever-action ones, not the pokey ones that resemble the USA wire screws.

Edited August 22, 2023 by system 4-50
Spelling

[Puffling]

5 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Wagos are wonderful, I use them a lot, but you need to be properly trained to know they are pronounced Waygoes not Wargoes as the manufacturer would have you believe.  I understand this is just a 3 day course leading to a certificate.

There is a nice youtube showing that they stand up well when overloaded, taking a massive load before they melt & catch fire.

NB I only use the lever-action ones, not the pokey ones that resemble the USA wire screws.

Well it just goes to show what you can learn these days. I always thought the pronunciation was WAGG-ohs, as in, "Let those waggos roll!" 🐎

 

The alternative brand linked by @Jen-in-Wellies looks good, and I learnt that the tiny window at the end is properly termed a Continuity Check Port. Wow, just amazing what value you can add on to your product with fancy wording. For me, seeing the ends of your bare conductor appearing in a transparent window always reminds me of the grubs of certain parasitic wasps, which lay their eggs in live caterpillars. As the grub grows it eats out the still-living caterpillar from inside, eventually appearing in a translucent window in the side of its host. Gruesome yet fascinating.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Wagos are wonderful, I use them a lot, but you need to be properly trained to know they are pronounced Waygoes not Wargoes

 

The company is named after the 'cage-clamp' inventors Wagner and Olbricht.

 

Having worked for the company - it is actually pronounced 'Var-go'. (It was originally a German company before being purchased by the UK Bowthorpe Group, which then became Spirent Group, The original family purchased the shares back from Spirent in 2003 and it is now a fully family owned company based in Minden Germany)

Edited August 22, 2023 by Alan de Enfield