Painting bilges, minimum duration for Danboline to be allowed to get wet.

[Roy Steiner]

To say I have a wet bilge would be an understatement as I have a step down from the stern to the doorway into the cabin which is below the waterline!  This would pool in water every time it rained and a drain hole was drilled so it would drain into the bilge rather than into the cabin; the lesser of the two evils.  In the long run I will probably work out a means to collect the rainwater and discharge it out of the boat with a shower pump.  Shortly I may have to have the engine taken out, precipitating an ideal opportunity to paint the bilge.  I have read through numerous posts about which paint and have settled on sanding/elbow grease to get a good surface followed by Vactan, primer and Danboline.   Thoughts on process always welcome but my main request is for advice on the minimum duration of time I need to keep the Danboline dry before it is safe to allow the elements back in.  I know the ideal would be to paint it under cover but the engine will be removed canal side in a semi remote position.  Thanks for reading and hopeful sharing experience and wisdom.

[LadyG]

9 minutes ago, Roy Steiner said:

To say I have a wet bilge would be an understatement as I have a step down from the stern to the doorway into the cabin which is below the waterline!  This would pool in water every time it rained and a drain hole was drilled so it would drain into the bilge rather than into the cabin; the lesser of the two evils.  In the long run I will probably work out a means to collect the rainwater and discharge it out of the boat with a shower pump.  Shortly I may have to have the engine taken out, precipitating an ideal opportunity to paint the bilge.  I have read through numerous posts about which paint and have settled on sanding/elbow grease to get a good surface followed by Vactan, primer and Danboline.   Thoughts on process always welcome but my main request is for advice on the minimum duration of time I need to keep the Danboline dry before it is safe to allow the elements back in.  I know the ideal would be to paint it under cover but the engine will be removed canal side in a semi remote position.  Thanks for reading and hopeful sharing experience and wisdom.

Did you read the data sheet?

Make sure everything is dry, paper towels are good indicators 

There are desiccators found in Poundshops to remove moisture if you don't have a hair dryer .

My guess would be two summer days.

Edited August 18, 2023 by LadyG

[Roy Steiner]

Thanks for reply, yes I did, it advises when it will be touch dry and when it can be overcoated but difficult for me to interpret from those two values.

 

[LadyG]

13 minutes ago, Roy Steiner said:

Thanks for reply, yes I did, it advises when it will be touch dry and when it can be overcoated but difficult for me to interpret from those two values.

 

Oh, yea I see, I would ask manufacturer for clarification because if one is putting on two coats in quick succession the idea is to have a chemical bond, but it may be that the nature of that paint is such that it rejects anything untill it is fully cured.

If one is waiting to fully dry ie cure, then another coat , I would want a light hand sand.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by LadyG

[cuthound]

I recently did my engine hole, bow thruster compartment and bow lockers.

 

I removed all loose rust, wire brushed and used Vactan as a rustproofer and primer, followed by three coats of Danboline.

 

The instructions on the can say allow the Danboline to dry for 24 hours between coats and to lightly key in with sandpaper if more than 3 days has passed between recoats.

 

 

 

 

[Roy Steiner]

Thanks, very helpful

 

[blackrose]

I'm sure Damboline is fine for the usual dry or damp bilges, but I don't think Vactan and any single part paint will resist serious amounts of standing water for very long.

 

Personally I think if you're going to all the trouble of removing the engine and taking the bilges back to bare steel then I'd be using a paint that's designed for underwater applications and is proven to last such as a good two part epoxy like Jotamastic 90. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by blackrose

[Roy Steiner]

The engine may be coming out if the big end has gone, awaiting return of the engineers to evaluate.  If so, you may be right subject to the time needed to rebuild the engine and weather conditions as it will be canal side with no cover.  I am looking at all options at the moment as I cannot do anything until the engineers return.

[Grassman]

I have the same problem with the bottom step draining into the bilge. I put a bowl underneath with an additional (automatic) bilge pump inside and joined its hose to the existing prop bilge pump hose. It's worked well but make sure the bowl can't move and that the drain hole(s) are properly lined up away from the edges of the bowl. I replaced the bowl with a bigger one when my engine came out a while back because occasionally the previous smaller one didn't always catch the water properly.

[Roy Steiner]

Great minds think alike, I am planning exactly the same thing.  Thanks for sharing your invaluable solution.

Roy

[Tracy D'arth]

Danboline is not as good as it was. I would go for 2 pack epoxy of any make on bare steel instead.

[David Mack]

A wet and dry vacuum cleaner is good for removing both dirt and water from a bilge, but then you have to leave it to dry completely, especially in the corners, before you can paint anything. That needs a warm dry day if you are outdoors. And you have to be prepared to abandon the day's work if it rains or if it is just not warm enough to dry out all the corners. Which is not good if you have limited time available.

[Peugeot 106]

On 20/08/2023 at 09:05, Grassman said:

I have the same problem with the bottom step draining into the bilge. I put a bowl underneath with an additional (automatic) bilge pump inside and joined its hose to the existing prop bilge pump hose. It's worked well but make sure the bowl can't move and that the drain hole(s) are properly lined up away from the edges of the bowl. I replaced the bowl with a bigger one when my engine came out a while back because occasionally the previous smaller one didn't always catch the water properly.

On my Hallmark I drain both steps using a washbasin overflow fittings and hoses into a bucket in the engine bay. At each side where the deck joins the sides I have ice cream containers with hoses attached to the sides horizontally.  The hoses are squeezed in the crack in the hatch so that they drain into the deck drain channel and thus out of the hull flange fitting. The containers are held in place with half bricks in them
 

I used to have a flooded bilge all the time. It is now bone dry as long as I empty the bucket.
 

When I cruise I take the containers out and just use the bucket. When in the marina I use the containers and most of the water goes through them so that I only need empty the bucket every month

 

Clever eh?  All my own idea. ( obviously very pleased with myself) I use to hate having to pump/dry out the bilge 
 

9 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

On my Hallmark I drain both steps using a washbasin overflow fittings and hoses into a bucket in the engine bay. At each side where the deck joins the sides I have ice cream containers with hoses attached to the sides horizontally.  The hoses are squeezed in the crack in the hatch so that they drain into the deck drain channel and thus out of the hull flange fitting. The containers are held in place with half bricks in them
 

I used to have a flooded bilge all the time. It is now bone dry as long as I empty the bucket.
 

When I cruise I take the containers out and just use the bucket. When in the marina I use the containers and most of the water goes through them so that I only need empty the bucket every month

 

Clever eh?  All my own idea. ( obviously very pleased with myself) I use to hate having to pump/dry out the bilge 
 

It works perfectly and costs about £5

[Joe Bourke]

Consider Chlorinated Rubber, commonly described as swimming pool paint.  Applied straight onto bare steel, not over old paint. Quick drying and a good thickness can be achieved quite quickly.  To avoid condensation use a fan blowing cold air. 

[BEngo]

I  second the suggestion to use an underwater paint.  Danboline says on the can that it is not suitable for permanently wet areas.

 

However, whatever paint you use either needs to be tolerant of damp steel or you will have to have the steel properly dry.  That is,  the temperature of the steel ( not the air) is at least 5 degrees above the dew point.  This is difficult to achieve in UK with a boat in the water.

Damp tolerant epoxies are readily  available.

 

N

[Peugeot 106]

8 minutes ago, BEngo said:

I  second the suggestion to use an underwater paint.  Danboline says on the can that it is not suitable for permanently wet areas.

 

However, whatever paint you use either needs to be tolerant of damp steel or you will have to have the steel properly dry.  That is,  the temperature of the steel ( not the air) is at least 5 degrees above the dew point.  This is difficult to achieve in UK with a boat in the water.

Damp tolerant epoxies are readily  available.

 

N

I used Danboline in the engine hole and it is fine on the sides but the floor has started to rust.  I’m going to investigate these damp tolerant epoxies for next time they sound like a wonder product. I’ve tried underwater setting repair epoxy putty before on a yacht without much success 20 years ago but times have obviously moved on. Wessex and SP epoxy ( I’ve used gallons ) are very temperature and moisture sensitive or they don’t set so this is a new one on me. Maybe it’s a derivative of the old underwater setting repair putty?

[BEngo]

Jotun, Hempel and Sherwin Williams  are all good starting points.  Damp tolerant doesn't mean " can be applied underwater" though🙂  

 

Dont expect them to be cheap either.

 

I dont know much about the chemistry of epoxies, but there are a range of them, si taking to a specialist is a good idea.  @Dr Bob is quite well up on these things and has provided good advice in the past.

 

N

[Dr Bob]

On 15/01/2024 at 09:07, Peugeot 106 said:

I used Danboline in the engine hole and it is fine on the sides but the floor has started to rust.  I’m going to investigate these damp tolerant epoxies for next time they sound like a wonder product. I’ve tried underwater setting repair epoxy putty before on a yacht without much success 20 years ago but times have obviously moved on. Wessex and SP epoxy ( I’ve used gallons ) are very temperature and moisture sensitive or they don’t set so this is a new one on me. Maybe it’s a derivative of the old underwater setting repair putty?

 

On 15/01/2024 at 10:08, BEngo said:

I dont know much about the chemistry of epoxies, but there are a range of them, si taking to a specialist is a good idea.  @Dr Bob is quite well up on these things and has provided good advice in the past.

 

"......times have obviously moved on..."       er No.  Sticking paint, sealant or adhesive to wet steel has always been a problem and likely always will be. There has been no step change in getting better adhesion to damp or wet steel. Marginal improvements, yes. If a major change had occurred then it would be able to be used on all coatings and adhesives and change the whole of the industrial coatings market. That clearly hasnt happened. Typically only 10% of the cost of an industrial paint job is for the coating. 50%+ is for the surface preparation. It is the holy grail of the industry (well the guys who sell the coatings anyway) to make a step reduction in surface prep costs. Applying paint to damp steel will always be a compromise.

[rusty69]

On 15/01/2024 at 10:08, BEngo said:

Jotun, Hempel and Sherwin Williams  are all good starting points.  Damp tolerant doesn't mean " can be applied underwater" though🙂  

 

Dont expect them to be cheap either.

 

I dont know much about the chemistry of epoxies, but there are a range of them,  RAsi taking to a specialist is a good idea.  @Dr Bob is quite well up on these things and has provided good advice in the past.

 

N

There is also the chemco product that one forum member favoured for wet tolerance, think it was Epochem  RA 500m or summit.

 

Yo Dr Bobs in da house. Happy new year @Dr Bob

[Peugeot 106]

4 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

 

"......times have obviously moved on..."       er No.  Sticking paint, sealant or adhesive to wet steel has always been a problem and likely always will be. There has been no step change in getting better adhesion to damp or wet steel. Marginal improvements, yes. If a major change had occurred then it would be able to be used on all coatings and adhesives and change the whole of the industrial coatings market. That clearly hasnt happened. Typically only 10% of the cost of an industrial paint job is for the coating. 50%+ is for the surface preparation. It is the holy grail of the industry (well the guys who sell the coatings anyway) to make a step reduction in surface prep costs. Applying paint to damp steel will always be a compromise.

Our local council painted some pebbledash flats near Xmas in the pouring rain. I laughed and said it wouldn’t work and they said it was fine to paint on a wet ( or damp) surface. I can’t remember the spec but I looked it up and hey ho it said it was fine. Around 5 years later the paint is still on so if you can do it over existing paint. Maybe that’s the stuff people are painting their bilge with. I must admit I wouldn’t think of painting damp surfaces though I once was told to paint a winch on an oil rig in the middle of the night when it was snowing. No it didn’t even last as long until I left by chopper on a crew change

 

Seems Dr Bob you are saying dry is best

[Dr Bob]

17 hours ago, rusty69 said:

There is also the chemco product that one forum member favoured for wet tolerance, think it was Epochem  RA 500m or summit.

 

Yo Dr Bobs in da house. Happy new year @Dr Bob

 

Happy new year to Mrs Rusty and yourself!! Hope your keeping afloat. How's life on here? Not been back here for ages!

 

16 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Seems Dr Bob you are saying dry is best

 

Dry is best? No. This boat's never been dry. Always lot of beer and wine available.

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Happy new year to Mrs Rusty and yourself!! Hope your keeping afloat. How's life on here? Not been back here for ages!

This place never changes. Same people, same arguments. Hope you are still boating.

[Peugeot 106]

12 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

 

Happy new year to Mrs Rusty and yourself!! Hope your keeping afloat. How's life on here? Not been back here for ages!

 

 

Dry is best? No. This boat's never been dry. Always lot of beer and wine available.

I’m half way through a dry January that’s why I maybe a tad tetchy but I’ll be making up for it in Feb! 

[Dr Bob]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

This place never changes. Same people, same arguments. Hope you are still boating.

My god! Richard's still not going on about Brexit is he?

 

Aye, still moored up somewhere east of Brum.

[rusty69]

Just now, Dr Bob said:

My god! Richard's still not going on about Brexit is he?

 

Aye, still moored up somewhere east of Brum.

I wouldn't know. I'm neither brave enough or drunk enough to venture into the politics section.