Stop planks at marinas and boatyards

[BEngo]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

Something in the back of my mind says that the current requirements for permission to build a marina for connection to the canals includes a requirement for stop planks at the entrance. (Someone know?)

 

Yes.  You have to put both sets in place then pump out the space between and leave the marina full of water for 14 days to show it is watertight.  There are allowances for rain and evaporation.

 

N

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, Pluto said:

 I can certainly see the weight benefits of aluminium. Hollow steel could aso be lighter than wood.

As used on the Continent  

 

Separate posting

 

 

For anyone who uses Facebook even if they don't admit it on here, here are some shots of stop planks being used Ashby Canal Association Friends | Facebook

Edited July 29, 2023 by ditchcrawler

[Dockeroo]

22 hours ago, Grassman said:

I called in for fuel at a marina on the Trent and Mersey today and noticed these stop planks piled up in a corner near the entrance. In an emergency not only would they be unable to deploy them quickly, but by now they would probably too warped to fit in the slots properly anyway.

 

It’s something I’ve never really noticed at other marinas but these caught my eye because they were so bad. Although it’s extremely unlikely they will ever be needed, the consequences of a nearby breach in the canal would of course be catastrophic for the moorers there, especially given the fact that it’s along a raised section of canal.

 

I wondered what other marinas around the country are like and whether or not theirs are neglected too? Really marina’s should periodically have a ‘try out’ similar to a fire drill but I bet none of them do.

 

I actually moored at this marina before, what you are taking a picture of is the old disused stop planks... the new ones safe and sound inside.

 

You have literally just made up a completely incorrect scenario and are almost incriminating the marina for having old stop planks when they actually have brand new stop planks........ didn't think of that?

[George and Dragon]

I wouldn't be leaving aluminium stop planks anywhere that the public has access.

[Grassman]

4 hours ago, Dockeroo said:

I actually moored at this marina before, what you are taking a picture of is the old disused stop planks... the new ones safe and sound inside.

 

You have literally just made up a completely incorrect scenario and are almost incriminating the marina for having old stop planks when they actually have brand new stop planks........ didn't think of that?

You've got the wrong marina. I moored at this one for a few months over the winter and they definitely don't have any other stop planks other than those in my photos. 

[Dockeroo]

11 minutes ago, Grassman said:

You've got the wrong marina. I moored at this one for a few months over the winter and they definitely don't have any other stop planks other than those in my photos. 

No certainly not, who ever you asked about the new ally stop planks you didnt ask the right person (that's if you did even ask)

 

Or in reality you provably just saw those old ones left outside and just wrongly assumed they were the ones that were in use.

[Grassman]

11 hours ago, Dockeroo said:

No certainly not, who ever you asked about the new ally stop planks you didnt ask the right person (that's if you did even ask)

 

Or in reality you provably just saw those old ones left outside and just wrongly assumed they were the ones that were in use.

Being as 'your' marina has gone about it the correct way (i.e no bad publicity) perhaps you could name it and I'll tell you if it's the same one I'm talking about?

[Mike Todd]

On 29/07/2023 at 15:53, BEngo said:

Yes.  You have to put both sets in place then pump out the space between and leave the marina full of water for 14 days to show it is watertight.  There are allowances for rain and evaporation.

 

N

Do they sign up to maintaining them after that initial requirement has been set?

[PaulD]

There are two sets of stop planks in the photo. The short ones are for the marina entrance. The longer ones are for the canal downstream of the entrance and presumably belong to CRT. 

[Dockeroo]

13 hours ago, Grassman said:

Being as 'your' marina has gone about it the correct way (i.e no bad publicity) perhaps you could name it and I'll tell you if it's the same one I'm talking about?

I'm not sharing were I like to stay, you can if comfertable, I've walked past those same stop planks many times.

 

Question is, perhaps you could tell me who exactly you asked and told you that those were the only stop planks, and why did you even need to ask? They're I'm storage mate! Brand new aluminum ones, this whole thread is pointless

 

Because if you didn't ask or have any proof, you have literally just made a massive story in your head due to lack of common sense.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Dockeroo

[ditchcrawler]

18 minutes ago, Dockeroo said:

I'm not sharing were I like to stay, you can if comfertable, I've walked past those same stop planks many times.

 

Question is, perhaps you could tell me who exactly you asked and told you that those were the only stop planks, and why did you even need to ask? They're I'm storage mate! Brand new aluminum ones, this whole thread is pointless

 

Because if you didn't ask or have any proof, you have literally just made a massive story in your head due to lack of common sense.

 

18 minutes ago, Dockeroo said:

I'm not sharing were I like to stay, you can if comfertable, I've walked past those same stop planks many times.

 

Question is, perhaps you could tell me who exactly you asked and told you that those were the only stop planks, and why did you even need to ask? They're I'm storage mate! Brand new aluminum ones, this whole thread is pointless

 

Because if you didn't ask or have any proof, you have literally just made a massive story in your head due to lack of common sense.

Although @Grassman was quick enough to bit at me, I can't see in his post where he said he asked anyone about the planks, just that he had seen them laying there. 

[Grassman]

10 hours ago, Dockeroo said:

I'm not sharing were I like to stay, you can if comfertable, I've walked past those same stop planks many times.

 

Question is, perhaps you could tell me who exactly you asked and told you that those were the only stop planks, and why did you even need to ask? They're I'm storage mate! Brand new aluminum ones, this whole thread is pointless

 

Because if you didn't ask or have any proof, you have literally just made a massive story in your head due to lack of common sense.

 

I commented about it to the staff when I had my short stay there a few months ago and they agreed that they probably weren't useable any more, and said ' we will just have to hope that there are no breaches/leaks'. This to me indicates that they don't have any new ones stashed away.

 

I'll rise above your abusive comments about me. I started this thread out of interest merely to find out whether the neglect of planks was commonplace, not to have a go at this particular marina (or any marinas), and I'm surprised and confused as to why I seem to have hit a nerve with you about it.  Thank you to you others for your comments and something I've learnt is that they are to protect the canal from a breach in a marina and not the other way round as I'd thought.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Grassman said:

and I'm surprised and confused as to why I seem to have hit a nerve with you about it. 

 

Mr Dockeroo comes here specifically to have his nerve hit, I reckon.

 

I've had a similar unprovoked roasting from him, so it's not just you! 

 

 

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Grassman said:

something I've learnt is that they are to protect the canal from a breach in a marina and not the other way round as I'd thought.

Not sure either is true. They were provided initially for the proving tests that the marina basin is watertight, then are kept on site for possible use in either eventuality, but are never so used, and slowly decay to the point they are unusable anyway.

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Not sure either is true. They were provided initially for the proving tests that the marina basin is watertight, then are kept on site for possible use in either eventuality, but are never so used, and slowly decay to the point they are unusable anyway.

I suspect that marinas connected to rivers have a greater interest in keeping them in good order!

[Yank on the Cut]

4 hours ago, Grassman said:

 

I commented about it to the staff when I had my short stay there a few months ago and they agreed that they probably weren't useable any more, and said ' we will just have to hope that there are no breaches/leaks'. This to me indicates that they don't have any new ones stashed away.

 

I'll rise above your abusive comments about me. I started this thread out of interest merely to find out whether the neglect of planks was commonplace, not to have a go at this particular marina (or any marinas), and I'm surprised and confused as to why I seem to have hit a nerve with you about it.  Thank you to you others for your comments and something I've learnt is that they are to protect the canal from a breach in a marina and not the other way round as I'd thought.

They are indeed required by CRT for 'new' marinas, they are used when the marina is being filled so the canal is not drained (not sure if used during stillage test) and neither CRT nor contractors building a marina can explain how they would be deployed in an emergency.

[magpie patrick]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Not sure either is true. They were provided initially for the proving tests that the marina basin is watertight, then are kept on site for possible use in either eventuality, but are never so used, and slowly decay to the point they are unusable anyway.

 In the event that a marina develops a significant leak CRT will want it sealed off unless it's fixed pronto - they probably don't care about how it's done but it is a requirement that the marina must be capable of being sealed off. Marina's don't tend to to burst because they don't tend to be built on embankments but they can leak. 

 

Commercial considerations tend to mean the marina operator fixes the leak pronto...

[MtB]

24 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Marina's don't tend to to burst because they don't tend to be built on embankments but they can leak. 

 

Cue a long list of marinas built using embankments...!

 

I'll kick off with:

 

Calcutt Marina

Fenny Compton Marina

 

 

[Ray T]

40 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Cue a long list of marinas built using embankments...!

 

I'll kick off with:

 

Calcutt Marina

Fenny Compton Marina

 

 

Ventnor

[koukouvagia]

After the drought of 2011 the Tring Summit became very low.  In January 2012 Waterways put in stop planks at the bridge just north of Cowroast to prevent the level dropping in the marina.  The effort was largely wasted because (a) the brickwork grooves were worn and (b) the bed of the canal was, apparently, so uneven that the stop planks couldn't make a proper seal.  

In any case, it rained soon after and all was back to normal.

 

 

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I suspect that marinas connected to rivers have a greater interest in keeping them in good order!

But do marinas connected to rivers have to do the stilling test to get connected in the first place? Do they ever have stop planks? 

A better defence against flooding is to have floating pontoons for boats to moor to, which can rise and fall up substantial piles as the river level changes.

[ditchcrawler]

Bill Fenn closes off at times in the winter

[Naughty Cal]

18 hours ago, David Mack said:

But do marinas connected to rivers have to do the stilling test to get connected in the first place? Do they ever have stop planks? 

A better defence against flooding is to have floating pontoons for boats to moor to, which can rise and fall up substantial piles as the river level changes.

They are building a new marina on the River Witham now and that will have a test prior to be connected to the river.

 

Burton Waters just the other side of Lincoln doesn't have stop planks but it does have large flood gates which can be used to either keep water in or keep water out depending on the conditions. (The marina does also have floating pontoons)

 

I would assume that the new marina will have a similar arrangement.

[Mike Todd]

On 31/07/2023 at 18:24, David Mack said:

But do marinas connected to rivers have to do the stilling test to get connected in the first place? Do they ever have stop planks? 

A better defence against flooding is to have floating pontoons for boats to moor to, which can rise and fall up substantial piles as the river level changes.

Sawley Bridge? As Victor keeps telling us!

[magpie patrick]

On 31/07/2023 at 18:24, David Mack said:

But do marinas connected to rivers have to do the stilling test to get connected in the first place? Do they ever have stop planks? 

A better defence against flooding is to have floating pontoons for boats to moor to, which can rise and fall up substantial piles as the river level changes.

 

 

21 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

They are building a new marina on the River Witham now and that will have a test prior to be connected to the river.

 

Burton Waters just the other side of Lincoln doesn't have stop planks but it does have large flood gates which can be used to either keep water in or keep water out depending on the conditions. (The marina does also have floating pontoons)

 

I would assume that the new marina will have a similar arrangement.

Rivers are a whole different ball game - not least because in many cases CRT do not have the same rights as they do on canals to enforce a connection agreement. 

 

Without regards to sealing off a river marina, the hydrology of rivers is a lot more subtle than one might think - they are not generic. For a big river such as the Severn or the Trent there is almost unlimited water even at low flow, there may be fluctuations in level but the demands of navigation and the possibility of a leak from a marina are negligible. Rivers like the Witham are more like canals in character as they occupy a channel much larger than their natural flow would create and can suffer low and no-flow conditions where leakage would matter. I don't recall any lock restrictions on the Witham but that may be because the locks aren't that busy anyway - certainly they happen on the Weaver which is also a very small river in it's natural state. 

 

And there are ones in between...

 

If you add where is a river marina going to leak to? I was challenged on canal marinas not being on embankments (some are) but river marinas tend to be with the river in the bottom of the valley.  But, with some rivers in fens and in flat areas with extensive drainage systems the water level may be above the surrounding land and so the marina could leak.

 

56 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Sawley Bridge? As Victor keeps telling us!

 Is that the one on Sawley cut? If it is then it's on a canal