Classic narrowboat with an engine room .

[1stArthur]

Hi I’m interested in buying a classic (if that’s the right word ) a 60’ or shorter narrowboat a boat with an engine room . I’ve been looking on Apollo duck . I just wondered if anyone would know . 
thank you . 

[Tonka]

Hawk is for sale on apollo duck under tugs. A Dave Harris 57ft. I would call it a classic

[1stArthur]

Thank you I’ll have a look .

Has anyone had any experience or views on Mike Heywood boats . I’ve not come across them before just wondered wether they are good bad indifferent. 

[Tonka]

5 minutes ago, 1stArthur said:

Thank you I’ll have a look .

Has anyone had any experience or views on Mike Heywood boats . I’ve not come across them before just wondered wether they are good bad indifferent. 

What age is the boat? They were considered good boats in their day. Had a 1983 one which we sold in 1999. Biggest problem was the shower tray which used the bottom of the boat.

[frangar]

Just now, Tonka said:

What age is the boat? They were considered good boats in their day. Had a 1983 one which we sold in 1999. Biggest problem was the shower tray which used the bottom of the boat.

I’ve got a 1983 Mike Heywood that I’ve had for 30 years like that. Makes a small compact wet room bathroom. And modern epoxy paints solve a lot of issues. Mines also 50ft with a JP2 and a back cabin etc. 

[1stArthur]

The boat I saw was 1986 . 

[Tonka]

34 minutes ago, 1stArthur said:

The boat I saw was 1986 . 

More details would be helpful if you want our opinion on it

[1stArthur]

Thanks the only other details are 

It’s a 50’ tug lister engine one double bedroom. Bathroom with a hip bath shower above . L shape galley . Fixed seating which turns into double bed .

Hopefully that’s enough for you the add doesn’t say a lot more. 

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, 1stArthur said:

Thanks the only other details are 

It’s a 50’ tug lister engine one double bedroom. Bathroom with a hip bath shower above . L shape galley . Fixed seating which turns into double bed .

Hopefully that’s enough for you the add doesn’t say a lot more. 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/mike-heywood-50-tug-for-sale/730936

This one. @frangar will know more about the JP then I do. What steel sizes were Mike Heywood using in 1986 ? My 1983 was 6 mm bottom and sides. 

[MtB]

21 minutes ago, Tonka said:

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/mike-heywood-50-tug-for-sale/730936

This one. @frangar will know more about the JP then I do. What steel sizes were Mike Heywood using in 1986 ? My 1983 was 6 mm bottom and sides. 

 

Nice looking boat from the outside but a very dated and sparse interior. 

 

Also, not a proper trad style separate engine room forward of the back cabin. On this boat the engine is IN the back cabin, right under your feet as you steer along the cut. Not nice. 

[Stilllearning]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Nice looking boat from the outside but a very dated and sparse interior. 

 

Also, not a proper trad style separate engine room forward of the back cabin. On this boat the engine is IN the back cabin, right under your feet as you steer along the cut. Not nice. 

Just what I was about to say, the engine right at the stern is, IMHO, a complete no no.

[MtB]

Several nice tugs for sale on apolloduck here:

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boats-for-sale/narrow-boats/tugs

 

Orion tugs are usually nice, and full of oddities and quirkiness. There's one in the link above.

 

 

[Tonka]

33 minutes ago, MtB said:

Several nice tugs for sale on apolloduck here:

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boats-for-sale/narrow-boats/tugs

 

Orion tugs are usually nice, and full of oddities and quirkiness. There's one in the link above.

 

 

Do not understand why the newer R W Davis is 50 grand cheaper then the other one. 

Does a Kelvin engine really make that much difference 

[noddyboater]

If you're on a budget have a look at Kadu Flyer.

28k seems very reasonable. 

[1stArthur]

Thank you 

I’ve looked into Kadu Flyer and it’s under offers. My other option is to get a boat that will take a four cylinder Kelvin. I’ve had this engine offered to me , it need some TLC but nothing that can’t be done. But I don’t really know where to look other than Apollo duck . It wouldn’t matter if the boat’s engine wasn’t very good because it would be replaced.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, 1stArthur said:

Thank you 

I’ve looked into Kadu Flyer and it’s under offers. My other option is to get a boat that will take a four cylinder Kelvin. I’ve had this engine offered to me , it need some TLC but nothing that can’t be done. But I don’t really know where to look other than Apollo duck . It wouldn’t matter if the boat’s engine wasn’t very good because it would be replaced.

 

Just be aware that (legally) you cannot put a vintage engine into a post 1998 boat, so ensure any boat you buy with the intention of installing an old Kelvin is pre 1998.

 

Yes ......... to forestall the nay-sayers - I said 'legally', what is the chance of you being caught and taken to task is up to the OP to evaluate.

[1stArthur]

Why what is the reasoning for this , I never heard of that before. 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, 1stArthur said:

Why what is the reasoning for this , I never heard of that before. 

 

The Recreational Craft Regulations specify emissions for recreational boats and since the introduction of the RCR (RCD) you cannot fit 'old' (non emission approved) engines into any boat post 1998.

 

There is an exemption as follows :

 

"original historical watercraft and individual replicas thereof designed before 1950, built pre-dominantly with the original materials and labelled as such by the manufacturer"

 

If you fit a non-approved engine then you need to have a PCA (Post Constructuction Assessment, cost around £2000-£3000) and would require the engine to be tested to ensure the emissions comply with the regulations.

 

The Directive defines a “major engine modification” as the modification of a propulsion engine which could potentially cause the engine to exceed the exhaust emission limits set out in Part B of Annex I of the Directive or increase the rated power of the engine by more than 15%. The Directive defines a “major craft conversion” as the conversion of a watercraft (boat and personal watercraft), which changes the means of propulsion, involves a major engine modification, or alters the watercraft to such an extent that it may not meet the essential requirements of the Directive. Any person placing on the market or putting into service a propulsion engine or watercraft after a major modification or conversion must apply the post-construction assessment procedure (Articles 19.3 and 23).

[magnetman]

Yes and I believe this had a knock on effect on the value of engines which would be previously viewed as good in a narrow boat. 

 

 

Of course the title of the thread starts with the word 'classic' so one may suggest post 1998 is not in the scope anyway. 

 

One wonders if there are boats advertis

 

 

ed as 1997 when they are actually not that old.

[1stArthur]

We I never . Thank you for that I’ll keep that info for future reference. 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Yes and I believe this had a knock on effect on the value of engines which would be previously viewed as good in a narrow boat. 

 

 

Of course the title of the thread starts with the word 'classic' so one may suggest post 1998 is not in the scope anyway. 

 

One wonders if there are boats advertis

 

 

ed as 1997 when they are actually not that old.

 

This could accidentally happen if the all the boat paperwork happened to unfortunately get lost or mislaid.

 

Could be a right nuisance if the owner was no longer sure of the build date. I guess the BW number might yield clues, but the boat could have been used on a non-BW waterway for any number of years. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BEngo]

53 minutes ago, 1stArthur said:

My other option is to get a boat that will take a four cylinder Kelvin. I’ve had this engine offered to me , it need some TLC but nothing that can’t be done.

 

Depends on which Kelvin the boat needs to take.  

 

A K4 is 88 bhp at  750 rpm. Not a hope in hell of using all that power and massive  Torque in a narrowboat.  Trouble ahead.

 

  A J4 is 44 hp at 1000 rpm.  OK on a canal though it will benefit from a good long run at high power fairly often. Otherwise expect to get good at decokes.  The "cold starting" ones can be really awkward when they are cold.

 

The least said about the P4 the better.  Not a great success.

 

An R4 would be about 100 hp at something like 1500 rpm.  Narrowboat madness. An R2 would be OK, but they only made one AFAIK.

 

There are  a few petrol and petrol/ paraffin Kelvins that would suit a narrow boat, but few want to go the petrol route.

 

N

 

 

[IanD]

24 minutes ago, BEngo said:

 

Depends on which Kelvin the boat needs to take.  

 

A K4 is 88 bhp at  750 rpm. Not a hope in hell of using all that power and massive  Torque in a narrowboat.  Trouble ahead.

 

  A J4 is 44 hp at 1000 rpm.  OK on a canal though it will benefit from a good long run at high power fairly often. Otherwise expect to get good at decokes.  The "cold starting" ones can be really awkward when they are cold.

 

The least said about the P4 the better.  Not a great success.

 

An R4 would be about 100 hp at something like 1500 rpm.  Narrowboat madness. An R2 would be OK, but they only made one AFAIK.

 

There are  a few petrol and petrol/ paraffin Kelvins that would suit a narrow boat, but few want to go the petrol route.

 

N

 

 

Nah, what he *really* wants is one of these... 😉

 

https://cruisingodyssey.com/2020/01/20/largest-diesel-in-the-world-107389-hp-and-90-feet-long/

[1stArthur]

Thank you. the Kelvin came out of a narrowboat and it was something 4 but I would be guessing without looking at it . 
if I did fit it into a boat it would be doing the Thames regularly so that would give it a good run . I’m in no hurry something will turn up and I do appreciate your help.

Arthur. 
 

[Theo]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Nice looking boat from the outside but a very dated and sparse interior. 

 

Also, not a proper trad style separate engine room forward of the back cabin. On this boat the engine is IN the back cabin, right under your feet as you steer along the cut. Not nice. 

If I were in the running for a boat I would seriously consider this one.  I find the dated interior rather appealing.  What interests me is that nothing is said about what's under the tug deck and how do you get to the space.  The engine in the back cabin is a bit of a downer.

 

Nick

Edited July 21, 2023 by Theo