Another springer question

[Kris9128]

Evening all. Due to a change of circumstances, I'm looking at becoming a continuous cruiser. 

Currently looking a boat options. There's plenty of springers up at the moment but have been reading some horror stories about them. Mainly poor steel and issues with overplating.

Are they really as bad as the stories out there or are they a good starting point. 

 

Any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated.  

 

Thanks, kris 

[Tracy D'arth]

Sam Springer built hundreds of boats. All were built as cheaply as possible, some with used steel. They were thin to start with.

They were the Trabant of the waterways.  They were mostly slightly V bottomed.

The youngest will now be 33 years old, many are 50+.  Practically all that are still afloat will have been patched up or overplated.

You really should be looking for better/younger.

[blackrose]

I bought an early 70s Springer 25 years ago. It was ok. I lived on it for a few years. I knew nothing about narrowboats back then. When the seller started talking about Springers I thought he was talking about his dog! 🤣

[MtB]

59 minutes ago, Kris9128 said:

Evening all. Due to a change of circumstances, I'm looking at becoming a continuous cruiser. 

Currently looking a boat options. There's plenty of springers up at the moment but have been reading some horror stories about them. Mainly poor steel and issues with overplating.

Are they really as bad as the stories out there or are they a good starting point. 

 

Any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated.  

 

Thanks, kris 

 

 

Like Minis and Ford Escorts, they vary massively. Some are almost as good as new, most have a fair amount of corrosion but still float, others are colanders only floating because of the blacking. I've seen one Springer out of the water that honestly, you'd think it was only five years old. 

 

So to answer your question in detail, we'd need to know which exact Springer you had in mind.

 

P.S. Ok maybe not Minis! Although a good friend of mine owns a Mini Minor with 23k on the clock, owning it since new, heated-garaged all its life and has even less rust on it than a Sea Otter. 

 

 

 

[LadyG]

If you have little or no experience of boating, prepare yourself for a steep learning process. There are plenty of similar threads so use the search facility for answers to many common questions.

Boats in London will be easier to visit if you live there, there is a Facebook London group. Apollo Duck is a good site, eBay is more basement price.

Good luck.

 

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

 

Boats in London will be easier to visit if you live there, 

 

 

And stating the obvious, boats in Birmingham, Bristol, Hungerford, Leicester and Milton Keynes will be easier to visit if you live near those places! 🤣

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

And stating the obvious, boats in Birmingham, Bristol, Hungerford, Leicester and Milton Keynes will be easier to visit if you live near those places! 🤣

I was going to make further comments on pricing and also mention GRP, but decided it was too late in the day.

 

[Athy]

11 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

The youngest will now be 33 years old,ger.

More like 29 years - the last ones were outshopped in 1994. But your point is valid: these are old boats.  On the other hand, they are characterful and often make good use of internal space, so a well-maintained example is worth considering. But, Kris, get a survey before parting with any money.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

More like 29 years - the last ones were outshopped in 1994. But your point is valid: these are old boats.  On the other hand, they are characterful and often make good use of internal space, so a well-maintained example is worth considering. But, Kris, get a survey before parting with any money.

 

 

I do find this common unqualified advice very presumptive. It depends in my opinion on both the price and the financial circumstances of the prospective buyer.

 

Would you still advise shelling out a grand on docking and a survey if the price agreed for the Springer was say, £500?  Or if the prospective buyer was a millionaire and sees say £20k as pocket money? 

[blackrose]

You might still want to dock and survey a £500 boat to see exactly what's wrong with it.

 

Millionaires aren't exactly thin on the ground these days, but I can't really see a millionaire buying a Springer or skimping on a survey. 

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, blackrose said:

You might still want to dock and survey a £500 boat to see exactly what's wrong with it.

 

Millionaires aren't exactly thin on the ground these days, but I can't really see a millionaire buying a Springer or skimping on a survey. 

 

 

 

Lol.

 

1) I never get a survey before buying a boat.

2) I'm making no comment about whether I'm a millionaire or not, but there are a few on this forum I can think of! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by MtB
Add a bit.

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

 

Lol.

 

1) I never get a survey before buying a boat.

2) I'm making no comment about whether I'm a millionaire or not. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you thin on the ground

If no then you are a millionaire 

[Mad Harold]

31 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Are you thin on the ground

If no then you are a millionaire 

But a million quid doesn't go very far these days.House,car, boat and you'll be joining the queue at the food bank.

[ionayes]

On 27/06/2023 at 20:06, blackrose said:

I bought an early 70s Springer 25 years ago. It was ok. I lived on it for a few years. I knew nothing about narrowboats back then. When the seller started talking about Springers I thought he was talking about his dog! 🤣

 

I bought a 40ft Springer 3 months ago without getting a survey 😅. It's my first boat too and the guy I bought it off had a springer spaniel in his car so, of course, I assumed the same! It wasn't until a mechanic came out and reiterated that I realised I must have confused the poor seller!

 

She has her problems - small leaks where the cabin meets the hull and some engine issues, but I think she's gorgeous and feels very spacious compared to other boats I looked at.

 

I have learned a ton in the last few months and my biggest piece of advice would be to get a survey. Tortuga marine services are excellent if you are between London and Berkshire. 

 

Wishing you all the best, float on!

[Tony Brooks]

11 minutes ago, ionayes said:

She has her problems - small leaks where the cabin meets the hull and some engine issues, but I think she's gorgeous and feels very spacious compared to other boats I looked at.

 

 

I thought all or most Springers had steel cabins. If so, that leak is more likely to be from leaks between window frame and cabin side - or it is not a Springer.

[bizzard]

Springer also built all wooden narrowy boats in they're early days.

[ionayes]

I’ve been told by a couple of professionals that is a springer, she has a fibre glass cabin so where it joins the hull there is a little wiggle room I think. 
 

does that sound like it would be a springer? 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, ionayes said:

I’ve been told by a couple of professionals that is a springer, she has a fibre glass cabin so where it joins the hull there is a little wiggle room I think. 
 

does that sound like it would be a springer? 

 

If they built wooden tops as Biz says then it could be, but these days the steel up stand that the cabin top fits over, if it ever had one, may well be rusted through causing the leaks. A photo of the boat may help identify the hull.

[bizzard]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

If they built wooden tops as Biz says then it could be, but these days the steel up stand that the cabin top fits over, if it ever had one, may well be rusted through causing the leaks. A photo of the boat may help identify the hull.

Wooden hull too Tony, we had one here, it sank once when a swim top lifted off. Lister SR2

Edited July 2, 2023 by bizzard

[uncle nick]

1 hour ago, ionayes said:

 

I bought a 40ft Springer 3 months ago without getting a survey 😅. 

 

I have learned a ton in the last few months and my biggest piece of advice would be to get a survey. 

 

Wishing you all the best, float on!

We’re also looking at a Springer, similar age and size I’d guess, though all steel construction. 
In a complete dilemma over a survey. This is only the third boat we’ve looked at but we could easily be down circa £3 grand for surveys, still have no boat but now minus a chunk of money that could have been far better used on the refit. 
Unfortunately not in a position to spend £30k upwards on a boat and even that wouldn’t guarantee lack of future problems!

[Francis Herne]

On 28/06/2023 at 10:41, MtB said:

I do find this common unqualified advice very presumptive. It depends in my opinion on both the price and the financial circumstances of the prospective buyer.

 

Would you still advise shelling out a grand on docking and a survey if the price agreed for the Springer was say, £500?  Or if the prospective buyer was a millionaire and sees say £20k as pocket money? 

 

I think it's a sensible presumption in this case.

 

If the person asking could afford to buy the wrong boat and write it off, or pay for major hull repairs, they wouldn't be looking to live on a Springer in the first place. Buying one with a major defect would leave them totally stuffed.

 

Springers as a category are perhaps the most likely to be write-offs, almost guaranteed to need hull work unless it's been done competently already.

 

Very few first-time boat owners will have your depth of knowledge and experience to inspect it themselves with stakes like that. If they did, they'd probably have mentioned it to begin with.

[uncle nick]

4 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

If the person asking could afford to buy the wrong boat and write it off, or pay for major hull repairs, they wouldn't be looking to live on a Springer in the first place. Buying one with a major defect would leave them totally stuffed.

 

Springers as a category are perhaps the most likely to be write-offs, almost guaranteed to need hull work unless it's been done competently already.

Very true, good points and advice. However, having multiple surveys completed, then walking away because of defects, could totally blow the budget meant to buy the boat, so still totally stuffed and not even a rotten hulk to sell for scrap. I’m looking for a weekend project and totally don’t know what to do for the best. Damned if I do and damned if I don’t!

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I thought all or most Springers had steel cabins. If so, that leak is more likely to be from leaks between window frame and cabin side - or it is not a Springer.

I know of one wooden top, the ex owner thought it the oldest surviving Springer afloat, he use to sing about it, The oldest Springer in Town.

[Francis Herne]

4 hours ago, uncle nick said:

I’m looking for a weekend project and totally don’t know what to do for the best. Damned if I do and damned if I don’t!

It sounds like you, unlike the original poster, don't plan to live on it which lowers the stakes considerably.  If it sinks (etc.) you can't go boating but won't be left homeless.

 

There are degrees - you could get a hull survey rather than a full one, or if the seller's amenable find a drydock and go around with a hammer yourself; it's better than nothing.

 

In the latter case you may be able to get the use of a dock more cheaply by being flexible - when I needed to do some quick work on Lark, a local yard let me know a day in advance that they expected a few hours' gap between one boat leaving and the next coming in.

 

If you do buy a Springer without any hull inspection, you definitely need to have a plan for the worst-case scenario. That can be "scrap it and give up" so long as your life plans don't rely on having a boat.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Francis Herne

[ionayes]

1 hour ago, uncle nick said:

We’re also looking at a Springer, similar age and size I’d guess, though all steel construction. 
In a complete dilemma over a survey. This is only the third boat we’ve looked at but we could easily be down circa £3 grand for surveys, still have no boat but now minus a chunk of money that could have been far better used on the refit. 
Unfortunately not in a position to spend £30k upwards on a boat and even that wouldn’t guarantee lack of future problems!

I know that it’s tempting to just go with your gut and buy what you like - it’s what I did! I didn’t think I could afford the high survey costs as you mentioned. 
 

However, I’m now in a position where to get the boat to a standard that it should be, it’s going to cost about 5k according to a survey I had recently - 3 months after purchase because I was having a lot of issues. 
 

I can luckily afford to do the work slowly and a lot of DIY which will reduce costs and I do love her, wouldn’t change it now, but if I ever decide to sell and upgrade I will definitely get a survey. 
 

It’s never simple but it’s much better than land life! Wish you all the best.