Houdini Hatch stays not staying open

[Yorkie2]

The brass stays (not sure of the right word) that keep the houdini hatches open on our boat, don't do so reliably, and safely.

 

Some photos below, and bear with my 'naming of parts':

- the brass rod that fits inside the brass tube is nice and shiny and smooth.

- when the collar is tightened, the brass olive does compress into the tube and can hold the strut in position, but only if wide open. It slips if the hatch is any less than about 75' open.

- I've 'improved' one of the hatches by roughening the inner rods with some sandpaper, however it is polishing up nicely each time we use it

- The hatches are very heavy, and if the struts lose grip, anything in the way of the hatch shutting is likely to get crushed/cut so am keen to optimise them.

 

I'm looking for some advice on how to improve the grip of the collar/olive/tube combination.

- If you have a hatch setup like this, have you found/fixed this ?

- Do I have the orientation of the olive correct ? its not symmetrical - on all 4 of our struts the compression is provided by the tube, not the collar.

- A well known window manufacturer suggested that there should be a small rubber washer somewhere in the collar/olive/tube combination. We tried that with the small selection of washers we had and it was not a success. There v limited room to fit a washer in the space available and it can stop the collar tightening.

 

Changing the hatches is not an option, nor is fitting some gas struts in a different orientation as per the newer hatches on the market.

 

While I wait to see if other fixes crop up, we do have a solution that allows us to have up to about 30' open, some nice high density foam wedges, but it would be nice to know that when the hatch is open wider, it works and it's secure.

 

Thanks in advance.

[pearley]

They are a pretty crap design. That's why many boaters use lengths of wood instead.

In our case I bought a wooden rolling pin , cut in half and cut slots on each end to locate them on the frame.

The half rolling pin gives you options of open a couple if inches if put on its side or about 8 inches if used in its length.

[Batavia]

Another vote for them being a crap design!  Apart from the "staying open" problem, the screw which secures the bottom end of the stay only had about 1 1/2 turns of thread engaged in the tapped block on the frame.  One of ours fell out with a stripped thread.  After that I removed the stays and adopted the wooden block approach.

[Yorkie2]

Thanks both - experience counts for a lot, and definitely more than - "it's designed to work this way....".

 

2 votes for wooden blocks then.

 

I'll put pics of HD foam next week when I've taken some this weekend.

[Slim]

I had 2 identical hatches on my boat and took the stays off many times over the years. There was never any form of rubber washer on mine (and I had them from new) Nor did I ever have any need to rough up the inner strut. I suspect your problem is with the olive taper not entering the outer tube properly. If it doesn't enter sufficiently it won't tighten on the inner strut completely. If you do go down line of using some form of 'prop' don't take the original struts off as the lid can open a full 180 degrees and fracture the brass hinges. (I suspect you already knew that)‼️ 

[GUMPY]

9 hours ago, Yorkie2 said:

If you have a hatch setup like this, have you found/fixed this ?

I just used a piece of 3x1 wood 6 inches or so long.

Minimal ventilation 1" open

Reasonable ventilation 3" open

Maximum ventilation 6" open 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

Looks like that split 'olive' is supposed to jam in the end of the tube when you tighten the collar. I wonder if the split is closing up completely, in which case it might be worth taking the 'olive' off and filing the gap a little wider. That said, I'm not sure what happens if the 'olive' does wedge well into the tube - you might not be able to get it to release, and then you can't shut the hatch.

10 hours ago, Yorkie2 said:

Changing the hatches is not an option, nor is fitting some gas struts in a different orientation as per the newer hatches on the market.

Why can't you fit a gas strut in the same position, using the same fixings?

[matty40s]

54 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

I just used a piece of 3x1 wood 6 inches or so long.

Minimal ventilation 1" open

Reasonable ventilation 3" open

Maximum ventilation 6" open 

 

 

Deluxe version...

[TheBiscuits]

58 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

I just used a piece of 3x1 wood 6 inches or so long.

Minimal ventilation 1" open

Reasonable ventilation 3" open

Maximum ventilation 6" open 

 

 

And when it's cold you can close the hatch and have a convenient bit of kindling ...

[GUMPY]

21 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

And when it's cold you can close the hatch and have a convenient bit of kindling ...

To be honest I used a bit of kindling for years, if you look through the pictures of Loddon on the brokers site its easily spotted on the work surface in the kitchen.

 

 https://rugbyboats.co.uk/Loddon-photos/

Edited June 5, 2023 by GUMPY

[jonathanA]

you need stronger fingers or a pair of pliers to put more force on the 'wing nut' thing.  thats worked for me and i only have 1 strut as the other crappy thing broke years ago...

 

I did find Midland swindlers stocked replacements but they were about 50 quid

 

if anyone wants to sell one of their unused ones (at a reasonable price).   

[BWM]

6 hours ago, jonathanA said:

you need stronger fingers or a pair of pliers to put more force on the 'wing nut' thing.  thats worked for me and i only have 1 strut as the other crappy thing broke years ago...

 

I did find Midland swindlers stocked replacements but they were about 50 quid

 

if anyone wants to sell one of their unused ones (at a reasonable price).   

I bought a couple of lengths of solid brass rod from ebay and swapped the bits over from the broken ones. 

[adrianh]

Try putting two saw cuts from outside diameter of the collet partly through the brass so that it can squeeze onto the rod easier. Space them at approx 180 degrees .

Alternatively find somebody with a lathe to make you some collets from nylon, a softer material will deform and grip easier

[Yorkie2]

Thanks all for comments, in particular Matty40s, I thought you had come to Saffron and taken a picture of my 'piece of wood variable opening device version 3' which I had made, convergent evolution in practice. In the end I decided I would go for additional stability by having a wider piece of softer material against the brass hatch frame.

 

Now I know the correct word, the collets on our struts are functioning so perhaps I'm not using enough force when tightening the collar.

 

And re gas struts, pictures I've seen of those on hatches has them in a different front to back orientation and I didn't want to put new holes in the old frames yet, and didn't think to use existing fittings. Also worried about the weight, pictures of new hatches seem to have gas struts supporting just the glass opener without any heavy brass frame + window, 0.75kg vs 3kg perhaps ?

 

I'll retain my 'infinitely variable and deformable hatch opener version 4' for the moment, and apply a bit more gorilla force when securing wide open hatches with the brass fixings.

 

I'll share pics of my versions 1-4 next week.

[MtB]

I've never tried to open mine! 

 

 

[GUMPY]

There used to be a company in the States that made an auto closing strut for when it rains it used an aspirin when it got wet it broke up and released the strut so it could close 🤔😂

[MtB]

59 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

There used to be a company in the States that made an auto closing strut for when it rains it used an aspirin when it got wet it broke up and released the strut so it could close 🤔😂

 

That must have been a right headache if it didn't work.