Interesting narrow boat

[Ray T]

1 hour ago, PeterF said:

It looks like the boat we met on the T&M a couple of years ago when it was new. AFAIR there was a father and son on it and they were German. It was also hybrid / electric from memory.

The two gents on it were Dutch on this occasion.

[Francis Herne]

There are a few centre-cockpit Sea Otters. Being only ~35ft helps but I've heard they're still a pain to handle on canals.

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, matty40s said:

I am wondering if the roof bit of the back end comes off, or lifts up, both to sit out and maybe a tiller insert??

 

1 hour ago, IanD said:

If you zoom in on the photo the back panel looks to be solidly constructed from steel, so unlikely -- but maybe there's a roof hatch over the opening side door so you can get out there?.

 

If you had a tiller at the stern (with space for it!) why on earth have wheel steering from midships?

 

It looks like there are hinges to the rear panel on the forward edge, so I believe the back end can be opened up.

All the new Aqualines and Collingwood widebeams with steering wheels have a tiller socket at the back.

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, matty40s said:

 

It looks like there are hinges to the rear panel on the forward edge, so I believe the back end can be opened up.

All the new Aqualines and Collingwood widebeams with steering wheels have a tiller socket at the back.

 

As did the widebeam from Bear Boating we hired (and hated) a couple of years ago -- needed just in case the steering gear fails.

 

At least they're all steered from the stern though, so you can see what the entire boat is doing while looking ahead...

[matty40s]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

At least they're all steered from the stern though, so you can see what the entire boat is doing while looking ahead...

If that is the case, why do they run from side to side whilst steering, or have one crew each side and another at the front waving frantically.

[IanD]

Just now, matty40s said:

If that is the case, why do they run from side to side whilst steering, or have one crew each side and another at the front waving frantically.

Either because they're incompetent, or the wheel's on one side and they can't see down the other, or the wheel's in the middle and they can't see down either side...

 

Of course with a wheel you can let go and walk from side to side without the boat veering off-line, as we were told when we picked up the boat -- always assuming you've got the rudder centred in the first place, which isn't easy when all you've got is a small indicator pointer on top of the rudder stock, and this is behind you under the table, and you're going slowly. DAMHIK... 😞

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

If that is the case, why do they run from side to side whilst steering, or have one crew each side and another at the front waving frantically.

Some years ago in Bristol we moored alongside a couple on a typical square-arsed widebeam. They were liveaboards with the usual collection of potted shrubbery on the roof. Chatting to them over a beer in the evening they said they had come from the Thames, and were about to head for Sharpness to take up a mooring on the Severn or Avon. 

Next morning we watched them set off for Cumberland Lock, with the woman, who was far too short to see over the shrubbery, darting from side to wheel to other side to wheel to see where she was going, while partner offered unhelpful observations. If they were like this in the open water of the Floating Harbour, I wonder how on earth they managed canal locks and bridges!

[IanD]

Just now, David Mack said:

Some years ago in Bristol we moored alongside a couple on a typical square-arsed widebeam. They were liveaboards with the usual collection of potted shrubbery on the roof. Chatting to them over a beer in the evening they said they had come from the Thames, and were about to head for Sharpness to take up a mooring on the Severn or Avon. 

Next morning we watched them set off for Cumberland Lock, with the woman, who was far too short to see over the shrubbery, darting from side to wheel to other side to wheel to see where she was going, while partner offered unhelpful observations. If they were like this in the open water of the Floating Harbour, I wonder how on earth they managed canal locks and bridges!

<crash>...

[ditchcrawler]

Centre cockpit with wheel steering is nothing new, this is 1987 Narrowboats for sale UK, used narrow boats, new narrowboat sales, free photo ads - Center Cockpit - Apollo Duck

 

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Centre cockpit with wheel steering is nothing new, this is 1987 Narrowboats for sale UK, used narrow boats, new narrowboat sales, free photo ads - Center Cockpit - Apollo Duck

 

It's nothing new especially on shorter older boats like the one pictured (37') or GRP ones, but was never common on narrowboats, especially long ones (60'? 72'?) like the one under discussion.

 

Like GRP cabins on steel hulls they were not popular even then and are out of favour now, for very good reasons... 😉

Edited May 31, 2023 by IanD

[Mike Todd]

On the K and A at the mo, I think it would be seriously difficult to moor in the typically weedy/reedy stretches, which is most. You need to get one place close enough to leap ashore.

[Hotspur]

9 hours ago, Ray T said:

10 hours ago, PeterF said:

It looks like the boat we met on the T&M a couple of years ago when it was new. AFAIR there was a father and son on it and they were German. It was also hybrid / electric from memory.

The two gents on it were Dutch on this occasion.

I chatted to them as they came through Watford Locks on Monday. They are indeed father and son and Dutch nationals.  Interestingly, they are both commercial ship masters.

[IanD]

30 minutes ago, Hotspur said:

I chatted to them as they came through Watford Locks on Monday. They are indeed father and son and Dutch nationals.  Interestingly, they are both commercial ship masters.

So as I speculated, highly experienced with (centre?) wheel steering in open waters and presumably when mooring. Whether this experience makes up for the disadvantages of such a setup on narrow canals is an interesting question; maybe they're good enough helmsmen to get away with it. It does mean that it might be difficult to find a buyer similarly skilled if they ever want to sell it...

[Iain_S]

11 hours ago, Francis Herne said:

There are a few centre-cockpit Sea Otters. Being only ~35ft helps but I've heard they're still a pain to handle on canals.

I had a shot of one of them when they came out. The steering was far too heavy and highly geared. About one turn lock to lock, IIRC. It was the prototype, and maybe it got sorted out later, and on the later boats.

 

Trickiest wheel steering I came across was an ex broads cruiser, with the wheel at the front of the boat, and positioned behind the driver. Real pain, and very easy to get your wires crossed and turn the thing the wrong way. It did have big wing mirrors, which were fairly essential 😄

[nb Innisfree]

I designed and fitted wheel steering to Innisfree, a 60' cruiser stern with semi-trad type of side 'wings, I later replaced the wheel with a own desigm crank handle which turned out to be ideal for me, 2.5 turns lock to lock so the right feel and no need for a helm indicator, combined with a quick folding hood for bridges and tunnels it provided dry cruising in the rain and shade in the sun, hand on heart I couldn't improve it.

With imagination and patience, wheel (or rather 'crank') steering is very practical, it is unusual so not to most people's taste.

 

If I was younger and in good health my next narrowboat would be electric steerable pods at each end complete with special cruiser sterns, no more winding and total control of boat position in windy weather (crabbing sideways into wind!) 

 

[Pluto]

I remember steering Pisgah up the Severn after Mr Ryle, off Cassiopeia, had bought her out of the Pershore Mill trade circa 1971. There was one full turn of the wheel in slack so we travelled in a series of sweeping turns from bank to bank as they wouldn't let me slow the engine to a more suitable speed.

[IanD]

13 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

I designed and fitted wheel steering to Innisfree, a 60' cruiser stern with semi-trad type of side 'wings, I later replaced the wheel with a own desigm crank handle which turned out to be ideal for me, 2.5 turns lock to lock so the right feel and no need for a helm indicator, combined with a quick folding hood for bridges and tunnels it provided dry cruising in the rain and shade in the sun, hand on heart I couldn't improve it.

With imagination and patience, wheel (or rather 'crank') steering is very practical, it is unusual so not to most people's taste.

 

If I was younger and in good health my next narrowboat would be electric steerable pods at each end complete with special cruiser sterns, no more winding and total control of boat position in windy weather (crabbing sideways into wind!) 

 

 

You could make it reversible and double-ended like some of the old day boats (but steered from the middle?), no need to wind ever again 🙂

[ditchcrawler]

The missus is much better with wheel steering than I am, I like a tiller.

[Stroudwater1]

Weren’t the old sliding roof Frobisher boats steered from the centre? I don’t see it as difficult TBH, you are just sited in a different part of the see saw that is steering a boat.
 

In many ways being nearer the fulcrum makes it easier to understand this effect and adapt accordingly. Mooring is just as easy or easier I found having used a centre cockpitted canal boat for many years round much of  the network. 

The one big advantage is you are well up the boat so it’s easier to see debris mattresses and wood in the canal as you can see the canal much nearer than you can from the stern. Same when approaching the bank, it’s easier to see where you are . It’s not just the shorter distance but the angle of vision gives you more forward visual awareness. 

[Mike Todd]

Many moons ago we hired a boat from Norbury - one of their sliding roof design (still see one or two with new owners around the system) It had both tiller and wheel steering, the latter from inside the cabin so mainly useful in the rain, if you could see through the windscreen I have not tried anything like it since although I do not recall it being especially difficult even if we manly used the tiller.