Are hire boats given any instruction

[matty40s]

During the last Ice age in January, we had 2 boats moor directly across from us, one of which seemed to find 3am and ideal time to open his side hatch(opposite our bed cabin) and smash the ice, emptying I dont know what into the cut. He also ran his engine 3 times a day, 7am, 4(just when I came home and turned lights on, and 7.30pm)

After 3 nights of this, I rigged up a large LED floodlight panel directly across from his hatch, activated by a PIR. It worked. No more ice smashing....I know he poked his head out as I could see the lights come on several times after 3am.

They left following a coal boat through.

[noddyboater]

Going back to the original question,  people often don't want instruction as they already know it all.

I had the good fortune to watch a chap who'd refused any guidance  - as he'd  "done it all before" attempt to leave the hire base mooring in West Stockwith basin with the Morse control in the neutral position..

After 20 minutes of much revving and no movement he decided it was too windy to leave that day and would wait til the morning!

[Captain Pegg]

12 hours ago, dixi188 said:

I got shouted at late one evening on the South Oxford when slowly passing some boats by the light of the moon. I was told I wasn't allowed to run my engine after 8pm.

My engine is very quiet on tick over, I'm sometimes asked if I'm electric.

I've also had glares if I'm on the move at 6am.

Some people aren't happy unless they are moaning.

A couple of weeks ago I got a ‘friendly’ hand gesture from a woman in a moored boat as I passed a linear mooring site at 2015 in the evening.

I was proceeding properly slowly so I reckon it must have been someone who rarely if ever moved and thought the 0800-2000 rule applied to everyone.

 

Though, I guess it could have been a business proposal.

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Arthur Marshall]

The trouble with any kind of "revenge response" is that, if you're not naturally a confident or semi-aggressive person, you get just as upset by responding as you do to the original annoyance. And you tend to worry about what the original perpetrators response is going to be. So you can't win. If you do decide to turn their engines off and sling the keys in the hedge, best to start your engine and scarper the moment you've done it.

These days, whatever time of day or night, I tend to just unmoor and move. You can't win with pillocks.

[magnetman]

the 8 to 8 rule specifically excludes using the engine to propel the boat. 

 

Byelaws on some canals forbade out of daylight hours movements but I am pretty sure you can go all night if you wish under CRT / BW byelaws. 

 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

the 8 to 8 rule specifically excludes using the engine to propel the boat. 

 

Byelaws on some canals forbade out of daylight hours movements but I am pretty sure you can go all night if you wish under CRT / BW byelaws. 

 

You can, and I have...

[Stroudwater1]

I don’t understand why a hire boat would ever need to run the engine once they’ve stopped cruising, surely most will have had their engines charging the batteries for a good many hours during the day? 

[Paul C]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

the 8 to 8 rule specifically excludes using the engine to propel the boat. 

 

Byelaws on some canals forbade out of daylight hours movements but I am pretty sure you can go all night if you wish under CRT / BW byelaws. 

 

 

The confusion arises because hire boats can't be used after dark, due to an insurance limitation. The hirers are told this in a basic way, which means they don't understand other boats can keep going after dark. So they think the 8-8 engine running while moored, is in fact 8-8 engine running for any reason.

[matty40s]

5 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

I don’t understand why a hire boat would ever need to run the engine once they’ve stopped cruising, surely most will have had their engines charging the batteries for a good many hours during the day? 

Dishwashers, central heating, tv, coffee machines..you would be amazed at what power hungry luxuries they enjoy nowadays.

[magnetman]

14 minutes ago, IanD said:

You can, and I have...

Paddington arm of all places was one of my best night boating experiences. No tunnel light just red and green and a white at the stern. Once in the zone and nobody with bright lights its great. I was transported back to when the navvies were digging it all out. 

 

Proper time machine. 

[Barneyp]

7 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

I don’t understand why a hire boat would ever need to run the engine once they’ve stopped cruising, surely most will have had their engines charging the batteries for a good many hours during the day? 

If there is a boat full of people (maybe as many as 8,) and they each want a shower and to use the hair dryer etc, then it might be necessary to run the engine.

In my experience the hire company put more emphasis on the need to keep the engine running to provide hot water and electricity than on the 8 til 8 rule.

[Captain Pegg]

10 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Paddington arm of all places was one of my best night boating experiences. No tunnel light just red and green and a white at the stern. Once in the zone and nobody with bright lights its great. I was transported back to when the navvies were digging it all out. 

 

Proper time machine. 

Everything but the one thing that is required to cruise at night. A forward facing white light.

[magnetman]

6 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Everything but the one thing that is required to cruise at night. A forward facing white light.

I don't like to blind other people. 

 

Of course a low level 5w lamp could be used and not cause trouble but red and green seems better as it also indicates direction of travel and will never mess with someone else's night vision. 

 

White lights forward are technically needed but on such a small waterway where other boats will be going very slowly and be very close it seems to me the wrong idea. 

 

Of course anyone else would have a massive tunnel light and not care about blinding everyone in the whole area. Maybe that is better?

 

 

Perhaps the best thing is an LED "night sun" type light bar. That'll sort it. 

[howardang]

8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Everything but the one thing that is required to cruise at night. A forward facing white light.

It depends what you mean by a forward facing white light. A white forward facing navigation light of moderate intensity is one thing but please,  not a powerful tunnel light, permanently switched on, which, in my view would be not only unnecessary but at times a real pain and both to the user and also to surrounding boats.

 

Howard 

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I don't like to blind other people. 

 

Of course a low level 5w lamp could be used and not cause trouble but red and green seems better as it also indicates direction of travel and will never mess with someone else's night vision. 

 

White lights forward are technically needed but on such a small waterway where other boats will be going very slowly and be very close it seems to me the wrong idea. 

 

Of course anyone else would have a massive tunnel light and not care about blinding everyone in the whole area. Maybe that is better?

 

 

Perhaps the best thing is an LED "night sun" type light bar. That'll sort it. 

Regardless it’s still a requirement and you can probably only get away with not having any form of forward lighting in an urban area.
 

Try it when out in the sticks and you’ll be arguing with bridge holes. Boating in poor light does make you realise why certain parts of boats and the canal infrastructure are painted the way they are (or at least were).

 

4 minutes ago, howardang said:

It depends what you mean by a forward facing white light. A white forward facing navigation light of moderate intensity is one thing but please,  not a powerful tunnel light, permanently switched on, which, in my view would be not only unnecessary but at times a real pain and both to the user and also to surrounding boats.

 

Howard 

 

 

 

I don’t mean anything in particular because that wording is pretty much the requirement.

 

You need sufficient lighting to see both banks and upcoming bridge holes. If I were to damage someone else’s boat proceeding after dark without a forward facing light I wouldn’t have any mitigation in the eyes of my insurer, particularly not if the boat had a functioning light that I’d chosen not to use.

 

For the record though my own boat has a sensible forward facing light.

 

 

[MoominPapa]

49 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

I don’t understand why a hire boat would ever need to run the engine once they’ve stopped cruising, surely most will have had their engines charging the batteries for a good many hours during the day? 

All the hire boat operators I've spoken to have problems with hirers running out of power. Many hirers these days are not on a 12-hour day mission; they're using the boat as vaguely movable air-bnb. They expect all the electrical things to work and don't have the knowledge or motivation to manage a set of batteries and do the off-grid thing. The easiest way for operators to avoid call outs for no lights and beeping fridge in the middle of the night is to specify that the engine must be run 8 or 10 hours every day.

 

MP.

[magnetman]

If it a pleasant night you can often get your eyes wide enough to be able to follow the waterway and avoid bridges.

 

It takes a while and relies on nobody else being anywhere around with bright lights but it can be done. Obviously helpful if there is some moonlight. 

 

I once saw a crt volunteer officiously painting over all the white parts of a lock with black paint. Oh dear. 

 

 

I really doubt the old boatmen had much forward lighting. Probably a small lamp on the cratch but not something which would project light a long way. Of course they would have known the canal intimately and could probably do it with their eyes shut. 

[Captain Pegg]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If it a pleasant night you can often get your eyes wide enough to be able to follow the waterway and avoid bridges.

 

It takes a while and relies on nobody else being anywhere around with bright lights but it can be done. Obviously helpful if there is some moonlight. 

 

I once saw a crt volunteer officiously painting over all the white parts of a lock with black paint. Oh dear. 

 

 

I really doubt the old boatmen had much forward lighting. Probably a small lamp on the cratch but not something which would project light a long way. Of course they would have known the canal intimately and could probably do it with their eyes shut. 

Old time boaters - they were far from all men - had a forward look-out and a means of propulsion that wasn’t prone to taking them off course violently if left to it’s own devices.

[magnetman]

If you mean the horses then yes but there were quite a lot of trading motorised boats after that and I think generally steered by men with the woman on the boat behind if there was one. 

 

 

You basically don't need to have a light on the front illuminating what is coming up. It is a nice luxury in a way but actually not necessary in most situations.

 

I've also been through Braunston and Blisworth tunnels with no forward facing light. Just a small light behind the steerer which illuminates the walls and indicates the presence of a boat to anyone coming from behind. 

 

Collision from behind is the biggest hazard. 

 

 

[Paul C]

On my old boat it was wired/lit as many are - with red/green nav lights on the sides - which is basically wrong for canals, but has become de-facto for most boats that have lighting for after-dark cruising. Probably something to do with rivers.

 

So I added a front and rear white light, so it was fully compliant, it being a narrowboat that can go under canal bridges, so it didn't have a mast at all, and I didn't fancy installing a mast for it only to have the "all round white light" requirement. I also installed a kill switch for the rear (white) light, so that if the front were used in tunnels, it wouldn't also light white to the rear and cause confusion should a boat follow us into the tunnel.

 

The front light was switched from 3 places - engine control panel, electrics panel (inside a cupboard) and a switch up front in the interior too. It made a good "porch" light to leave on if we left the boat, to return to in the evening. (The boat was unlocked/entered at the front, which is unusual).

[BilgePump]

30 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If it a pleasant night you can often get your eyes wide enough to be able to follow the waterway and avoid bridges.

 

It takes a while and relies on nobody else being anywhere around with bright lights but it can be done. Obviously helpful if there is some moonlight. 

 

I once saw a crt volunteer officiously painting over all the white parts of a lock with black paint. Oh dear. 

 

I really doubt the old boatmen had much forward lighting. Probably a small lamp on the cratch but not something which would project light a long way. Of course they would have known the canal intimately and could probably do it with their eyes shut. 

Night cruising can be wondeful. Have done more on river due to tide times than canal but it's a real pleasure.

One key to getting eyes accustomed to the dark is to kill the cabin lights. Nav lights, compass, depth screen but not much else.

On a good moonlit night it's amazing how much you can see

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

I don’t understand why a hire boat would ever need to run the engine once they’ve stopped cruising, surely most will have had their engines charging the batteries for a good many hours during the day? 

Some years ago we hired a boat in late December for a week. Cruised all daylight hours available, i.e. about 8 until 4. Minimal electricity use in the evenings (lighting, gas cooking, no TV). But on the first few nights the battery alarm still went off at about 9 pm. And hire boats rarely have stoves to give a bit of ambient light. We had deliberately moored in the countryside well away from other boats (although never knowing if there was someone just around the next bend), so running the engine for an hour wasn't a big problem.

 

Possibly then, and now at the start of the season, batteries need a few days of discharge / recharge to get back to a reasonable capacity. 

[Arthur Marshall]

49 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

All the hire boat operators I've spoken to have problems with hirers running out of power. Many hirers these days are not on a 12-hour day mission; they're using the boat as vaguely movable air-bnb. They expect all the electrical things to work and don't have the knowledge or motivation to manage a set of batteries and do the off-grid thing. The easiest way for operators to avoid call outs for no lights and beeping fridge in the middle of the night is to specify that the engine must be run 8 or 10 hours every day.

 

MP.

I met some people on a hire boat who, when questioned (nicely) as to why their engine was still running two hours after they'd moored up after a full day's running, said they'd been told by the yard the engine should be running at least eight hours a day. They did know about 8 to 8.

[IanD]

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

Paddington arm of all places was one of my best night boating experiences. No tunnel light just red and green and a white at the stern. Once in the zone and nobody with bright lights its great. I was transported back to when the navvies were digging it all out. 

 

Proper time machine. 

 

We once (Xmas 1986) went right through London overnight, starting from Broxbourne on the Lea after midnight -- lovely trip, over 10mph downstream on the Lea IIRC, and a *lot* fewer moored boats than today... 🙂

 

Later on we were going down Marsworth about 1am in full moonlight and snow (with mugs of hot soup, mmm...) when the bows got hung up on a protruding stone, sodding hydraulic paddles which take forever to drop meant we came perilously close to disaster... 😞

Edited April 16, 2023 by IanD

[magpie patrick]

15 hours ago, magnetman said:

Hammer a metal part of the hull irregularly. The sound transmits through water. Its like the dripping tap torture. You can really get into people's heads if you do it for long enough. 

 

 

I know someone who, in a land based residence, did something similar. His neighbours used large amounts of some kind of perfumed air freshener and it was getting into his house, he was allergic to perfume and his house was getting nigh on uninhabitable. Despite discussing the problem they neither stopped using the stuff nor stopped the flow into his house, so he set up one of those huge PA speakers you used to see around fairgrounds, pointed it at the party wall and set up a system to play a loud "ping" at random intervals during the night. A  few days later Environmental Health came round and asked him to stop, he refused, they said they'd prosecute, he invited them to do so - they went round to the neighbours and suggested they stop using air freshener.