The first day of looking at boats after three months of looking on the interweb. Wilton and Rugby boats.

[madder do ee]

In a week or two, I should be ready to buy a narrowboat, depending on solicitors! 
For months, I have been looking at Appolo duck and reading the threads on here. I intend to moor the boat at Hemel marina, as my work is all around Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire. I have a small ltd, and we do bathroom renovations and property maintenance, so I'm fairly handy.
Looking to live aboard by myself, recently divorced, and apparently a cliche in the narrowboat world.

I went with a friend first to Whilton Marina and looked at 
CHUFFIN SPARROW, ANAHATA, TWO JAYS, and SLINDON

Photos tell a thousand lies, and viewing these was enough to put any sane person off buying a narrow boat. We then went to Rugby boats and had a look at Wagtail and Hattie.

We looked at Wagtail. First, and it's a beautiful boat. You can see it has been well maintained and the interior is a different level to what we had seen earlier. A really lovely boat.

Hattie from Norton Canes was something else. my Dad is from Cannock, Staffordshire, just round the corner from Norton Canes. Hattie just sang to me; the Gardner Engine and the engine room were amazing; I just loved this boat.

Could do with bringing back to earth before I just go and buy a piece of cannel history far too impulsively.

[Alan de Enfield]

Whilton is the place to go and look at boats so you know what you DON'T want to buy

(But the cafe does a mean breakfast)

[Graham Davis]

I presume you are thinking of living aboard full time; in that case will Hemel Marina allow that?

[churchward]

43 minutes ago, madder do ee said:

In a week or two, I should be ready to buy a narrowboat, depending on solicitors! 
For months, I have been looking at Appolo duck and reading the threads on here. I intend to moor the boat at Hemel marina, as my work is all around Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire. I have a small ltd, and we do bathroom renovations and property maintenance, so I'm fairly handy.
Looking to live aboard by myself, recently divorced, and apparently a cliche in the narrowboat world.

I went with a friend first to Whilton Marina and looked at 
CHUFFIN SPARROW, ANAHATA, TWO JAYS, and SLINDON

Photos tell a thousand lies, and viewing these was enough to put any sane person off buying a narrow boat. We then went to Rugby boats and had a look at Wagtail and Hattie.

We looked at Wagtail. First, and it's a beautiful boat. You can see it has been well maintained and the interior is a different level to what we had seen earlier. A really lovely boat.

Hattie from Norton Canes was something else. my Dad is from Cannock, Staffordshire, just round the corner from Norton Canes. Hattie just sang to me; the Gardner Engine and the engine room were amazing; I just loved this boat.

Could do with bringing back to earth before I just go and buy a piece of cannel history far too impulsively.

I can't tell you which boat to buy but either Wagtail or Hattie looks good on the Rugby boats website.

 

Boats are expensive just now and the thing to consider is that they are both 20 years old.  A survey in my view is essential and when spending so much and not a lot to spend on a survey in relation to get an impartial opinion. 

 

I should not spend too long thinking about it as any decent boat won't hang around long in the present market.

 

Good luck

[David Mack]

16 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

I presume you are thinking of living aboard full time; in that case will Hemel Marina allow that?

https://www.hemelmarina.com/

"We have a number of residential moorings, leisure moorings and hard-standings available "

12 minutes ago, churchward said:

I can't tell you which boat to buy but either Wagtail or Hattie looks good on the Rugby boats website.

At a quick glance these are both good boats by quality builders.  Hattie is a bit older and to my mind the fitout looks a little more dated. The main difference is that Wagtail is more middle-of-the road style with a trad stern with extended hatch giving an almost semi-trad layout, and modern engine below the deck. Hattie comes from a builder with direct links back to working boats with separate engine room, heavy nice sounding engine and traditional back cabin. (And yet Hattie has 'bus' windows and Wagtail has portholes). At the end of the day it is down to personal taste which boat appeals more.

[MtB]

35 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Whilton is the place to go and look at boats so you know what you DON'T want to buy

(But the cafe does a mean breakfast)

 

Agree with the first bit. Disagree with the second. Cafe was a dump when I last visited.

 

1 hour ago, madder do ee said:

Could do with bringing back to earth before I just go and buy a piece of cannel history far too impulsively.

 

It's a very nice hull and boat by a really good builder, utterly spoiled by having bus windows.

 

Does that help?!

 

 

[madder do ee]

43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Whilton is the place to go and look at boats so you know what you DON'T want to buy

(But the cafe does a mean breakfast)

Yes the cafe was great and the guys were supper helpful and friendly, sorting keys and letting us look around.

49 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

I presume you are thinking of living aboard full time; in that case will Hemel Marina allow that?

Yes, I have spoken with them and they have Residential and Lesure

[Nightwatch]

I know someone who has bought from Whilton twice. Been happy with his purchases.

 

He buys to live on and does them up and sells them. Has a five year plan which seems to be working for him. I wouldn’t buy from Whilton, not in a month of Sundays. Personal experience.

 

Both those boats at RBS look really good. I would go for Hattie if I had the choice. But I haven’t so I won’t.

Boats are more costly than they used to be before you know what!

[madder do ee]

36 minutes ago, churchward said:

I can't tell you which boat to buy but either Wagtail or Hattie looks good on the Rugby boats website.

 

Boats are expensive just now and the thing to consider is that they are both 20 years old.  A survey in my view is essential and when spending so much and not a lot to spend on a survey in relation to get an impartial opinion. 

 

I should not spend too long thinking about it as any decent boat won't hang around long in the present market.

 

Good luck

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely get a survey, as you say when spending as much it just makes sence.

7 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I know someone who has bought from Whilton twice. Been happy with his purchases.

 

He buys to live on and does them up and sells them. Has a five year plan which seems to be working for him. I wouldn’t buy from Whilton, not in a month of Sundays. Personal experience.

 

Both those boats at RBS look really good. I would go for Hattie if I had the choice. But I haven’t so I won’t.

Boats are more costly than they used to be before you know what!

I felt so comfortable on Hattie just wondering around opening hatches, and the Gardner engine was something else.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, madder do ee said:

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely get a survey, as you say when spending as much it just makes sence.

I felt so comfortable on Hattie just wondering around opening hatches, and the Gardner engine was something else.

 

Getting a survey only offers limited protection depending on the terms of your contract with your surveyor, they are often littered with 'get out clauses' in case they miss something important.

 

Also be aware boats have been selling to buyers where the seller hasnt been prepared to wait for a lift out and survey to be undertaken. Its less hassle and quicker for them.

 

Im not saying dont get one, just be aware of the limitations and down side of organising one.

 

[Mike Tee]

Hattie is a good looking boat - just think about it without the emotion though, how much will you use the back cabin? Its not huge so I'm guessing the drop down bed is probably less than 4' so not a lot of use except as a single (and very occasional double). That is nearly 8' of boat that will probably not get used much - but it is nice though!

[robtheplod]

In Whiltons defence.. if they own the boat, and they often do, then you have more buyer protection than you'd normally get with other brokers.....

[churchward]

20 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

Getting a survey only offers limited protection depending on the terms of your contract with your surveyor, they are often littered with 'get out clauses' in case they miss something important.

 

Also be aware boats have been selling to buyers where the seller hasnt been prepared to wait for a lift out and survey to be undertaken. Its less hassle and quicker for them.

 

Im not saying dont get one, just be aware of the limitations and down side of organising one.

 

I agree there are lots of caveats to the survey report but no real difference to a house survey. So, getting redress should it all go wrong can be difficult.

 

However, I do not think that is the be all about getting a survey. As I said above it is about getting an impartial opinion on the condition and worth of the boat. If one had a knowledgeable friend then that might do but I also see the professional survey to also be more than that in terms of engineering knowledge and checking hull condition etc. 

 

It saves the heart from ruling the head and buying on impulse. I have owned a narrowboat for long time now around 15 years of my own boat and another 6 with a share boat. But I do not necessarily consider that makes me an expert on all boats and I think I would still get a survey if I bought another boat.

 

 

[Athy]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

 

It's a very nice hull and boat by a really good builder, utterly spoiled by having bus windows.

 

Does that help?!

 

 

In aesthetic terms, there's merit in what you say.

On the other hand, the windows do let more light in than portholes do.

The boatbuilder is of good repute, the engine builder even more so!

[enigmatic]

You've probably heard the standard warnings (yes, it's smaller than a flat but definitely big enough for a single bloke, yes it's cold in winter when the stove isn't on full blast, yes you have to empty out your own toilet waste, yes there's a lot of stuff that goes wrong but you're probably more practical than average at fixing it. Might be best to have some cash around to get a proper specialist to do the difficult stuff with Gardner engines too)

Living in a marina will save the need to manage electricity but spoil the fun of travelling around

 

Have you confirmed availability of a mooring at Hemel which is big enough to accommodate Hattie? If so, and all is fine budget wise, you might actually be ready to take the plunge. Boats don't hang around for long!

 

 

 

 

 

[Nightwatch]

1 hour ago, madder do ee said:

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely get a survey, as you say when spending as much it just makes sence.

I felt so comfortable on Hattie just wondering around opening hatches, and the Gardner engine was something else.

It’s a nice boat. If you’re a bit handy you can fix items. The Gardner is a good engine. As are the boat builders of both boats.

As has been mentioned, don’t hang about. View the survey as offered. If it looks okay make a judgement. You won’t have a comeback to the surveyor, unless they agree to. Many people buy without survey. If you decide on having a survey, it’s up to you of course, May I say in my experience a full survey is money wasted. A hull and perhaps engine survey would do me. Rugby boats have a great reputation as far as I can see. I have no reason to think they wouldn’t guide you in the correct direction. (That’s my limited reputation gone!)

ETA. The bed pulls out as well. We did this to our bed a couple of years ago, after 16 years of ownership. It has made afifference. Wife can now sleep without having to touch me!! 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Nightwatch

[matty40s]

6 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

 Might be best to have some cash around to get a proper specialist to do the difficult stuff with Gardner engines too)

 

Charles Mills(Gardner Engine Forum and specialist)had this one in bits not too long ago and said it was rather a good and well looked after example.

 

Boats don't hang around for long!

 

boats such as Hattie with a traditional layout are not as sought after as the reverse layout dentist surgery colours now in vogue. 

So if it's still around when you are ready, stick a cheeky bid in.

[Nightwatch]

2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

So if it's still around when you are ready, stick a cheeky bid in.

That’s good advice I reckon.

[Bobbybass]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Whilton is the place to go and look at boats so you know what you DON'T want to buy

(But the cafe does a mean breakfast)

I totally agree with that. 

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, churchward said:

I agree there are lots of caveats to the survey report but no real difference to a house survey. So, getting redress should it all go wrong can be difficult.

 

However, I do not think that is the be all about getting a survey. As I said above it is about getting an impartial opinion on the condition and worth of the boat. If one had a knowledgeable friend then that might do but I also see the professional survey to also be more than that in terms of engineering knowledge and checking hull condition etc. 

 

It saves the heart from ruling the head and buying on impulse. I have owned a narrowboat for long time now around 15 years of my own boat and another 6 with a share boat. But I do not necessarily consider that makes me an expert on all boats and I think I would still get a survey if I bought another boat.

 

 

 

Personally having owned one I wouldnt. (Though the OP is in a different position of course).

 

I would study any recent survey (accepting zero comeback and the risk of course something may have developed since) and take a 'knowledgable friend' to view the boat with me.

 

I would also give any boat a much more thorough going over than I gave our boat when we bought. In hindsight I placed far too much faith in the surveyor picking stuff up who got obsessed with what he believed was an issue with the electrics which actually proved not to be an issue at all.

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

On the other hand, the windows do let more light in than portholes do.

 

I never understand this obsession with light inside the boat having to come from large side windows.

 

Every boat I've ever owned has been portholes-only, with masses of light inside from the roof lights. 

 

 

 

But if you like the idea of eating breakfast inside the boat with all the towpath pedestrians staring in at you through your picture windows, go for it! I prefer a good degree of privacy in my boats  

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, robtheplod said:

In Whiltons defence.. if they own the boat, and they often do, then you have more buyer protection than you'd normally get with other brokers.....

 

Only if you can get the to admit they own it which, in my experience has resulted in them telling untruths.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Only if you can get the to admit they own it which, in my experience has resulted in them telling untruths.

 

Certainly true in my own personal experience. Down to the salesman making a suspected fictitious call to the suspected fictitious owner of a boat supposedly 'on brokerage' in my presence to see if they might accept my very reasonable offer. They didn't, in about five seconds flat, apparently and weirdly, given it had been on sale at Wilton for months on end.

 

I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Whilton definitely own boats.

 

They offered to buy ours, not broker it, buy it.

[Adam]

I viewed a rake of boats from all the brokerages around there. All the boats at whilton appeared not prepared for sale at all and almost dirty inside.

 

 

Get a survey but have the money to hand and move fast, very fast. You often see boat's sat under offer for months with buyers Messing around. I completed in 3 weeks.

 

I got 20% off the price a few months ago this way. I timed it just before Christmas to help with that extra push.Boats aren't moving as quick as they were last year despite what the brokers tell you.