C&RT License Survey

[Rob-M]

10 hours ago, Goliath said:

 No

you'd have a reduction for reversing the system 

any part of the system you reverse on you’d get money back 👍

 

Demonstration of  exemplary skills deserves a reward

No wonder you keep reversing through Great Haywood then.

[Momac]

The whole idea of the consultation is discriminatory as it inevitably samples a large majority population who own a narrowboat and have a home mooring.

 

If a declaration of CC requires considerably greater license fee to be paid is it not likely that people will declare they have a home mooring?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The whole idea of the consultation is discriminatory as it inevitably samples a large majority population who own a narrowboat and have a home mooring.

 

If a declaration of CC requires considerably greater license fee to be paid is it not likely that people will declare they have a home mooring?

 

If that's discriminatory then so is any vote or election which makes a decision based on the will of the majority. So are these all wrong too, or only ones you disagree with?

 

It's not beyond the wit of man -- or even CART -- to check that home moorings are real and being paid for at the going rate, and fine those who try and fiddle the system with fake home moorings.

Edited March 11, 2023 by IanD

[Rob-M]

17 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The whole idea of the consultation is discriminatory as it inevitably samples a large majority population who own a narrowboat and have a home mooring.

 

If a declaration of CC requires considerably greater license fee to be paid is it not likely that people will declare they have a home mooring?

 

 

 

 

 

 

One hopes they have a simple IT check that matches moorings provider data with the license data and investigate any anomalies.

[Arthur Marshall]

5 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

One hopes they have a simple IT check that matches moorings provider data with the license data and investigate any anomalies.

Your mooring, whether marina, online CRT or private, has to be authorised by CRT. You can't just declare an address and moor up. If it's outside your or a mate's house, you have to pay an EOG mooring fee, so there's no advantage in doing so.

[Midnight]

27 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The whole idea of the consultation is discriminatory as it inevitably samples a large majority population who own a narrowboat and have a home mooring.

 

If a declaration of CC requires considerably greater license fee to be paid is it not likely that people will declare they have a home mooring?

 

 

 Probably but the license checkers call at marinas and moorings each year atm. I get a list of boats that are supposed to have home moorings at the boat club. Each year there are some who simply don't. Then there are some who should be on the list but have been re-classed as 'continuous cruisers' because they've been out on long summer cruises. That could present a problem for some people.

 

[Higgs]

34 minutes ago, IanD said:

If that's discriminatory then so is any vote or election which makes a decision based on the will of the majority. So are these all wrong too, or only ones you disagree with?

 

It would obvious be discriminatory, if some users of the towpath were to be penalised. 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Higgs

[Momac]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

If that's discriminatory then so is any vote or election which makes a decision based on the will of the majority. So are these all wrong too, or only ones you disagree with?

Elections don't ask the public for opinion on fees that should be paid by minority groups.

Is it  not obvious the results will unfairly discriminate against minority groups ?

 

[Lady M]

A licence discount for those with a mooring might be claimed by submitting copies of receipts.  This approach could address what happens for CC who take a winter mooring.  The discount would apply to each full month (calendar month?) of paid moorings.

 

My experience is that CRT only check the list of mooring holders occasionally.  

[Midnight]

4 minutes ago, Lady C said:

My experience is that CRT only check the list of mooring holders occasionally.  

 

At the moment but won't they just increase the checks?

[Lady M]

Nothing to stop that as far as I can see.

[ditchcrawler]

12 hours ago, magnetman said:

Reversing can bring the rewards if done really well without hitting anything and with people watching. Extra points for doing it past moored boats with no contact. 

 

Points can be redeemed for future licence cost increase reductions. 

 

 

But the people watching is the important bit, its easy if there is no one about, goes perfectly every time, the more people the harder it is.

[magnetman]

Exactly. 

[ditchcrawler]

30 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 Probably but the license checkers call at marinas and moorings each year atm. I get a list of boats that are supposed to have home moorings at the boat club. Each year there are some who simply don't. Then there are some who should be on the list but have been re-classed as 'continuous cruisers' because they've been out on long summer cruises. That could present a problem for some people.

 

If you have a home moorine, even be it a club, why would you declare you are a CC'r in the summer, unless you give up that mooring, but then you wouldn't have a home mooring and it wouldn't matter if your there or not

21 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It will, of course. I suspect there will be a "standard" licence and  "CC" licence,  the latter being higher. Then in a year or two someone will go to court to say it's discrimatory, CRT won't contest the case, they'll just scrap the "standard" licence and everyone will be on the higher one, maybe with a small discount if you're on a CRT recognised mooring.

Win all round...

I think its something they have been trying to do for the past 15 or so years

21 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It will, of course. I suspect there will be a "standard" licence and  "CC" licence,  the latter being higher. Then in a year or two someone will go to court to say it's discrimatory, CRT won't contest the case, they'll just scrap the "standard" licence and everyone will be on the higher one, maybe with a small discount if you're on a CRT recognised mooring.

Win all round...

I think its something they have been trying to do for the past 15 or so years

[Midnight]

12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you have a home moorine, even be it a club, why would you declare you are a CC'r in the summer, unless you give up that mooring, but then you wouldn't

 

The boater didn't, the C&RT did. When I contacted the boater he was unaware that he had been reclassified as a CCer. The decision I believe was based on his sightings and lack of sightings at the boat club moorings. The C&RT did amend his record when I pointed out that he was on a long summer cruise. If C&RT repeat that it will cause a bit of upset. Now semi-retired we will be heading out in April and returning in October - could be interesting.

 

[IanD]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

Elections don't ask the public for opinion on fees that should be paid by minority groups.

Is it  not obvious the results will unfairly discriminate against minority groups ?

 

Elections ask voters to decide which party they want to run the country and decide tax policy -- for example a party that favours low tax rates and tax breaks for the rich or one which thinks they should pay more and the poor should pay less. Are you saying that voting for Labour shouldn't be allowed because it'll be unfair to the minority of rich people?

 

All democratic processes where policies change as a result are seen as unfair by those who lose out (often a minority) and fair by those who gain (often a majority) This CART consultation is no different, except unlike other recent decisions the majority in favour of change is likely to be far bigger than 52:48... 😉

 

It should also be pointed out that many boaters think that widebeams have been too leniently treated up to now as far as the license fee is concerned, and no doubt will have expressed this view in their response to the questions... 😞

Edited March 11, 2023 by IanD

[Momac]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

It should also be pointed out that many boaters think that widebeams have been too leniently treated up to now as far as the license fee is concerned, and no doubt will have expressed this view in their response to the questions... 😞

A lot of narrowboaters simply don't like anything that is  not a narrowboat.

 

3 hours ago, Midnight said:

Now semi-retired we will be heading out in April and returning in October - could be interesting.

So not a continuous cruise if you are on a home mooring 5 or 6 months of the year.

Seems like C&RT make it up as they go along.

 

 

[LadyG]

11 hours ago, Midnight said:

 Probably but the license checkers call at marinas and moorings each year atm. I get a list of boats that are supposed to have home moorings at the boat club. Each year there are some who simply don't. Then there are some who should be on the list but have been re-classed as 'continuous cruisers' because they've been out on long summer cruises. That could present a problem for some people.

 

I'm not clear what you are saying, the boat club has classified members boats as being cc? You do know there is no such thing as a cc licence.

There are boat club members who register with CRT as having a private mooring in order to stop getting pushed to move every 14 days? Does that work? I don't think it does. 

I am not sure CRT records are kept up to date anyway.

Or do you mean those who are out on long cruises will be classified as cc by CRT and asked to buy a CC Licence when it comes in, probably 2024.

Edited March 11, 2023 by LadyG

[Momac]

How long do you have to be  away from your home mooring before you become a continuous cruiser ?

 

[MtB]

35 minutes ago, MartynG said:

How long do you have to be  away from your home mooring before you become a continuous cruiser ?

 

 

I think its how far away you get, not how long for that counts. 

 

There is something about being required to comply with CC rules when you are far away from your home mooring IIRC. No hanging about for two weeks then moving half an inch....

 

 

 

 

[LadyG]

I think we are straying in to the realms of fantasy here , anyway I'm not going to tell CRT anything that might confirm or deny my current status. 

[Midnight]

12 hours ago, LadyG said:

I'm not clear what you are saying, the boat club has classified members boats as being cc? You do know there is no such thing as a cc licence.

There are boat club members who register with CRT as having a private mooring in order to stop getting pushed to move every 14 days? Does that work? I don't think it does. 

I am not sure CRT records are kept up to date anyway.

Or do you mean those who are out on long cruises will be classified as cc by CRT and asked to buy a CC Licence when it comes in, probably 2024.

 

Just for you. The license officer at C&RT sent me (as Club mooring officer) a list of boats that they have recorded as having a home mooring at the Club. There were some bogus entries on the list (ghost moorers). One boat was missing from the list that did have a home mooring (at the Club). It had been reclassified by C&RT as a boat without a home mooring i.e. a Continuous Cruiser. When I mentioned to the C&RT licensing officer that the boat was on a long summer cruise the record was corrected.
Is that clear enough or do you want a diagram?
No fantasy - it's what happended.

 

 

12 hours ago, MartynG said:

How long do you have to be  away from your home mooring before you become a continuous cruiser ?

 

 
Based on my experience six months.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Midnight

[Arthur Marshall]

We have one boat on our mooring who in reality continually cruises but maintains the mooring for when he needs to leave the boat somewhere secure while doing other things. It's been almost a year, I think, since he was there. I'm not sure how he classes himself to CRT, or how they classify him. It's not a ghost mooring, because it's genuine, so he pays farm rent and EOG to CRT. Currently it makes no difference but it certainly would be an injustice if they reclassified him CC, raised his licence fee but still demanded the EOG. I just hope they have a facility for dealing with anomalies.

[magnetman]

Seems to me the moorings are too cheap. 

 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

3 hours ago, Midnight said:

 

Just for you. The license officer at C&RT sent me (as Club mooring officer) a list of boats that they have recorded as having a home mooring at the Club. There were some bogus entries on the list (ghost moorers). One boat was missing from the list that did have a home mooring (at the Club). It had been reclassified by C&RT as a boat without a home mooring i.e. a Continuous Cruiser. When I mentioned to the C&RT licensing officer that the boat was on a long summer cruise the record was corrected.
Is that clear enough or do you want a diagram?
No fantasy - it's what happended.

 

Some years ago, I was sent a threatening letter demanding that I give details of my home mooring or my boat would be classified as "without home mooring" I wrote back referring to my electronic record on CRT's system pointing out that my home mooring had remained unchanged for over a dozen years and that if it changed then I would update the record.

It seems that my club had a visit from a licence officer with a list of boats recorded as having a mooring at the club. My boat was on this list but not recorded by the licence officer as being on site at the time of the visit. Our club mooring officer had pointed out that the licencing officer that it was on site. They were just yards away from it when the conversation took place. Despite this, my boat was recorded as having a ghost mooring.

Yes it does happen.