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C&RT License Survey


Arthur Marshall

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4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Judging by Alan's quote from Nigel Moore above (and Nigel knew the law better than anyone else,  I think, ever has), then there is no reason CRT can't bring in other licences. A standard licence for home moorers, and a CC licence for those without.

As far as charging for moorings goes, they can do that, too, as we know. Long term and short term,  as well as changing the legal mooring periods on a whim. Llangollen has been a success, and so few complained that it's set a precedent for all city and town moorings - there just has to be enough demand to cover the collection cost.

I can indeed see some changes coming. Isn't half going to mess their plans up though if they run out of water every summer from now on.

Been good though,  hasn't it?! I stumbled onto all this boating lark purely by accident. Been thirty years of pure gold (with the odd hiccup, admittedly!).

Over 20 for me, my first canal holiday was early 80s in a friend's boat, it was on the L & L loved it from the first moment of turning the key

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30 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Been good though,  hasn't it?! I stumbled onto all this boating lark purely by accident. Been thirty years of pure gold (with the odd hiccup, admittedly!).

 

Yes - we've had the best of it, it peaked during the 90's but has gradually worsened over the last 20 years as there has been a gradual decline in 'good times' as the 'snowball gently rolling down the mountain' becomes an avalanche of cost increases and falling standards, closures and lack of water.

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43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes - we've had the best of it, it peaked during the 90's but has gradually worsened over the last 20 years as there has been a gradual decline in 'good times' as the 'snowball gently rolling down the mountain' becomes an avalanche of cost increases and falling standards, closures and lack of water.

Ian tipos of tipos marine, he maintains some turbines on the Don, they are all on summer settings already! We need a lot more rain so that boating can happen this summer 

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2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Over 20 for me, my first canal holiday was early 80s in a friend's boat, it was on the L & L loved it from the first moment of turning the key

That's how I got started - terrible family and friends holiday on a friend's boat, when all the kids hated each other and the adults argued all the time. Didn't matter, bought the tub a few months later from an ad in Exchange & Mart...

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7 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

That's how I got started - terrible family and friends holiday on a friend's boat, when all the kids hated each other and the adults argued all the time. Didn't matter, bought the tub a few months later from an ad in Exchange & Mart...

I went to the inlands waterways festival in Wakefield 1992. Spent 3 days trudging in near knee deep mud. Absolutely smitten with the all the boat life. Several years on hire boat holidays, then finally boat ownership. Only regret is that we didn’t do it earlier.

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We had a house by the Thames 86-96 so I was watching the boats all the time. When some family money fell in my lap aged 20 I started living on the narrow boat we had at end of garden then when we sold the house in 1996 more money so a bigger boat and did a lot of cruising about on the cut.

 

These days due to entanglement with woman and having children I'm not free to be nomadic although it is my natural state. Such is life.

 

Do have some good memories of fully aloof cruising about with the dog and my mum and her dogs on another boat. That was a funny way to spend your 20s !

 

I like boats.

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1 hour ago, magnetman said:

We had a house by the Thames 86-96 so I was watching the boats all the time. When some family money fell in my lap aged 20 I started living on the narrow boat we had at end of garden then when we sold the house in 1996 more money so a bigger boat and did a lot of cruising about on the cut.

 

These days due to entanglement with woman and having children I'm not free to be nomadic although it is my natural state. Such is life.

 

Do have some good memories of fully aloof cruising about with the dog and my mum and her dogs on another boat. That was a funny way to spend your 20s !

 

I like boats.

Boats dogs women children in order please 🤭🤭

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On 27/02/2023 at 16:58, ditchcrawler said:

Like the Basingstoke Canal

and almost no Residential Moorings and the few that are there are well policed!

 

No CCing either . . . 

On 27/02/2023 at 18:17, MtB said:

 

You're kidding! 

 

A basic, "no facilities" CRT on-line leisure mooring sold for £5k a year recently in Great Bedwyn on the eastern K&A. £5,000 a year, not £500!

 

 

 

Bedwyn station is great for commuting into London

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well - got my invitation to complete the consulation.

 

I can see no evidence of any 'skewing' of the questions the first 10 or so pages are all explaining that the licence fees must increase, and why. The questions then simply go on to these are some proposals we have put forward for you to choose the best (or least worst) options and there is always the option to 'tick' keep the system as it is now.

 

At the end they ask if you can think of any alternative ways of raising the much needed cash.

 

Seems all straight forward and (for C&RT) not underhand or any deception at all.

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11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Well - got my invitation to complete the consulation.

 

I can see no evidence of any 'skewing' of the questions the first 10 or so pages are all explaining that the licence fees must increase, and why. The questions then simply go on to these are some proposals we have put forward for you to choose the best (or least worst) options and there is always the option to 'tick' keep the system as it is now.

 

At the end they ask if you can think of any alternative ways of raising the much needed cash.

 

Seems all straight forward and (for C&RT) not underhand or any deception at all.

So why did it keep on asking the same questions about which 2 groups should pay more?

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38 minutes ago, peterboat said:

So why did it keep on asking the same questions about which 2 groups should pay more?

Having now done it, there was of course another alternative (which I assume you ticked?) saying that you thought that all groups should increase by the same amount... 😉

 

If you actually read the questions instead of ranting about them, you'd have noticed that -- for the case where people said different groups should pay different amounts -- the questions were trying out different combinations of things like bigger width surcharges, area-based pricing, and CC surcharge.

 

How else do you think CART can come to any decision about how to increase the license fees, apart from asking questions like this?

 

If you disagree, just answer that you think everyone should have the same increase, job done. But I suspect you're in a minority, so if the majority of boaters think differential increases are a better idea that'll happen, and CART need to find out from boaters what the best option is. Or even the "least bad" option, to quote directly from the consultation, which if nothing else shows that CART realise that big fee increases are not going to be popular... 😉

 

Going by your repeated posts about this I'm pretty sure your objections are basically because you're about to find yourself on the losing side with a majority against you much bigger than 52:48, and you don't like it... 😉

Edited by IanD
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6 minutes ago, IanD said:

Having now done it, there was of course another alternative (which I assume you ticked?) saying that you thought that all groups should increase by the same amount... 😉

 

If you actually read the questions instead of ranting about them, you'd have noticed that -- for the case where people said different groups should pay different amounts -- the questions were trying out different combinations of things like bigger width surcharges, area-based pricing, and CC surcharge.

 

How else do you think CART can come to any decision about how to increase the license fees, apart from asking questions like this?

 

If you disagree, just answer that you think everyone should have the same increase, job done. But I suspect you're in a minority, so if the majority of boaters think differential increases are a better idea that'll happen, and CART need to find out from boaters what the best option is. Or even the "least bad" option, to quote directly from the consultation, which if nothing else shows that CART realise that big fee increases are not going to be popular... 😉

 

Going by your repeated posts about this I'm pretty sure your objections are basically because you're about to find yourself on the losing side with a majority against you much bigger than 52:48, and you don't like it... 😉

I actually played with the consultation for a while to see what happened but all questions lead to same ending, its not a rant, it's the reality most narrowboat owners with moorings will choose widebeams and CCers for a rise. In the hope it doesn't cost them any extra

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I think the starting position is quite clear, there will be increases.  The questions then gave different combinations of options so you could indicate your preferred choice of how those increases would be applied, e.g. Same for everyone, more for CCers, more for widebeams, more for electric boats, etc.

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9 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I actually played with the consultation for a while to see what happened but all questions lead to same ending, its not a rant, it's the reality most narrowboat owners with moorings will choose widebeams and CCers for a rise. In the hope it doesn't cost them any extra

 

But you keep referring to the consultation being "slanted towards the conclusion CART want", which it isn't -- the license fees are going up, the consultation is all about how this increase should be shared out, and one option is to share it out equally (which is what you want). I fail to see how this is "slanted"...

 

I also don't believe that narrowboat owners with moorings (the large majority...) think that they won't have to pay any more, because it's crystal clear that they will -- but they do believe that if wideboat owners and CCers pay more their increase will be smaller than it would be with your preferred solution, because this is how maths works... 😉

 

P.S. I also voted for the electric boat discount to be removed...

Edited by IanD
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59 minutes ago, peterboat said:

So why did it keep on asking the same questions about which 2 groups should pay more?

 

The questions were slightly different eg : should be widebeam surcharge be length x beam, next question should the widebeam surcharge 'be area', both questions were asked again with the additional permutation of should a CCer pay more, so there were several variations in any set of questions, and then if you ticked (say) yes to both widebeam and CC surcharge it very cleverly wrote a new set of questions based on your answers - you answered this (and it quoted your written answer) in the previous question now why do you think CCers should pay more, click any of the list or add your own, 

 

After the first few questions the follow-on questions YOU saw were those relating to your previous answers. No doubt after the initial 'core questions' my questions would not be the same as your questions.

Having a postgraduate degree in marketing I actually thought it was a very well written and relevant questionnaire, using all sorts of AI to read your answers and ask you further questions based on your answer is something I've not used before.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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59 minutes ago, peterboat said:

So why did it keep on asking the same questions about which 2 groups should pay more?


there’s no point banging your head against a brick wall, if they ain’t gonna see it they ain’t gonna see it

 

CRT will have the replies they want to match the decisions they’ve made. 
 

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14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The questions were slightly different eg : should be widebeam surcharge be length x beam, next question should the widebeam surcharge 'be area', both questions were asked again with the additional permutation of should a CCer pay more, so there were several variations in any set of questions, and then if you ticked (say) yes to both widebeam and CC surcharge it very cleverly wrote a new set of questions based on your answers - you answered this (and it quoted your written answer) in the previous question now why do you think CCers should pay more, click any of the list or add your own, 

 

After the first few questions the follow-on questions YOU saw were those relating to your previous answers. No doubt after the initial 'core questions' my questions would not be the same as your questions.

Having a postgraduate degree in marketing I actually thought it was a very well written and relevant questionnaire, using all sorts of AI to read your answers and ask you further questions based on your answer is something I've not used before.

As I said all skewed to give the answers they want 

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