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We are currently creeping along the Caldon Canal above Hazelhurst Junction in the sunshine, feeling a little like the crew of the African Queen, as we push through the verdant overgrowth. viewing the collection of moored craft as we pass I have taken to wondering why most moored boats on this canal are unlicensed, is licensing optional on this waterway, and if so can I apply for a rebate?

 

It also occurred to me that if CRT stirred themselves to collect the £60,000 or £70,000 overdue they may them be able to afford to hack back the aforementioned vegetation currently obscuring the view of the water and bridge-holes.

 

I suppose I should ask the question of CRT but I am defeated by the increasing heat and feel an after morning coffee snooze coming on.

 

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14 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

How do you know they are all unlicensed...?

Only by observing the displayed out-of-date licences, some going back to 2014 or the lack of displayed licences. 

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As it’s been closed to the network for a while they may be all believing  they need a rebate🤣

 

This was covered here recently and the need to display current licence appears less than compulsory, the regs appear a bit unclear. 
 

Spot Checkers from CRT use electronic means now so it’s probably not as bad as first seems? Enjoy your trip, hoping to be there this year ourselves 

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23 hours ago, Idle Days said:

Only by observing the displayed out-of-date licences, some going back to 2014 or the lack of displayed licences. 

"We no longer use our online boat checker, having reviewed the usage, of all the boats checked over the review period, 37% were unlicensed but already in our enforcement process. The other 63% were either licensed, in places where a licence wasn't required or the details were incorrect."

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/buy-your-boat-licence/boat-licence-customer-support-team/how-we-tackle-evasion

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My paper licence is years out of date.  I stopped putting them up when CRT started expecting us to print our own.  I don't have a printer.  CRT have been quite clear that they don't need the licence displayed, just like with tax discs in cars.

 

To the OP - your post reads like you're just trying to stir up division.

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9 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

My paper licence is years out of date.  I stopped putting them up when CRT started expecting us to print our own.  I don't have a printer.  CRT have been quite clear that they don't need the licence displayed, just like with tax discs in cars.

 

To the OP - your post reads like you're just trying to stir up division.

There is a difference as I understand it.  The law was changed to not require the display of "Tax disks", however as I understand it, it is still a requirement in law to display the boat licence.

 

I find it interesting that when CRT decided to "change the law" e.g. refuse a licence because of breach of T&Cs boaters wail "they can't change the law".   However when they welcome the change e.g. you don't need to display your licence there isn't a murmur about them changing the law.    Odd that.

 

If you accept one change you can't IMO not accept all changes.

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54 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

My paper licence is years out of date.  I stopped putting them up when CRT started expecting us to print our own.  I don't have a printer.  CRT have been quite clear that they don't need the licence displayed, just like with tax discs in cars.

 

To the OP - your post reads like you're just trying to stir up division.

 

Not at all, I'm simply wondering why I should pay a licence fee to CRT when so many apparently do not.  

 

As far as I know it is a CRT requirement that I display a valid licence on both sides of my boat, which is what I do. Am I correct on that point or not?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

My paper licence is years out of date.  I stopped putting them up when CRT started expecting us to print our own.  I don't have a printer.

Branches of Ryman and many local libraries will print out a PDF you supply on a thumb drive, for a nominal fee.

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14 minutes ago, Idle Days said:

As far as I know it is a CRT requirement that I display a valid licence on both sides of my boat, which is what I do. Am I correct on that point or not?

 

No, CRT don't really care as long as your registration number is visible.  The licence support team know if a boat is licenced or not, who else really needs to know?

 

It is technically a legal requirement from the British Waterways bylaws, but as far as I am aware CRT have never prosecuted anyone under any of their inherited bylaws.

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Idle Days makes what seems a very valid point to me. 

 

Also there is some reassurance that a boat with a licence on display has had insurance and a valid BSS within the last 12 months.

 

CRT will send printed licences in the post on request.  However, ideally you'll then need to laminate them because CRT tend to fold the letter across the licence 'disc'.  (I had to ask a bit more firmly this year as the CRT person on the phone told me it was not necessary as well as suggesting I could download from my non-existent online account.  I then pointed out that the CRT lease terms where the boat is kept expect the moored boats to have current licences on display.)

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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

There is a difference as I understand it.  The law was changed to not require the display of "Tax disks", however as I understand it, it is still a requirement in law to display the boat licence.

 

I find it interesting that when CRT decided to "change the law" e.g. refuse a licence because of breach of T&Cs boaters wail "they can't change the law".   However when they welcome the change e.g. you don't need to display your licence there isn't a murmur about them changing the law.    Odd that.

 

If you accept one change you can't IMO not accept all changes.

There's still a requirement in law to display the licence, it's just that no-one cares if you don't as long as your number is visible. There are hundreds of laws in this country that aren't enforced because mostly they just don't matter. When they do, they get used.

Almost everyone breaks several laws every day. You can't prosecute them all.

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58 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

There's still a requirement in law to display the licence, it's just that no-one cares if you don't as long as your number is visible. There are hundreds of laws in this country that aren't enforced because mostly they just don't matter. When they do, they get used.

Almost everyone breaks several laws every day. You can't prosecute them all.

I am well aware of that Arthur.   The point I was making really was the way some squeal because CRT "changes the law" and they don't like it but are quite prepared to shut up when they like the idea.

 

So really the squeals aren't because CRT has "changed the law" but because it might impinge on them doing what they want to.

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We print out and laminate our licence (else it goes soggy in the winter). We also (electonically) add a bit of colour to make them more interesting. It's a bit of a fag getting out the printer and laminator so we often wait till there are a few jobs to make it worthwhile, so it can easily be a couple of months before the licence gets displayed.

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9 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

My paper licence is years out of date.

This reads like you have left it in the window for many years. I have seen many boats who clearly do actually do this and it seems to be a bit of an odd thing to do. Do they take it out to clean the window and then put it back? Is it unnoticed as they don't clean their windows? Have they not visited the boat for years but simply renew their licence online for sentimental reasons? Curious. 

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2 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

This reads like you have left it in the window for many years. I have seen many boats who clearly do actually do this and it seems to be a bit of an odd thing to do. Do they take it out to clean the window and then put it back? Is it unnoticed as they don't clean their windows? Have they not visited the boat for years but simply renew their licence online for sentimental reasons? Curious. 

What is this cleaning of windows?

I can't be doing with these newfangled ideas.

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Just now, Arthur Marshall said:

What is this cleaning of windows?

I can't be doing with these newfangled ideas.

Don't the windows get washed with the rest of the boat when it rains, that is what happens with our boat.

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1 minute ago, Rob-M said:

Don't the windows get washed with the rest of the boat when it rains, that is what happens with our boat.

Except the licence is usually on the inside...

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19 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

This reads like you have left it in the window for many years. I have seen many boats who clearly do actually do this and it seems to be a bit of an odd thing to do. Do they take it out to clean the window and then put it back? Is it unnoticed as they don't clean their windows? Have they not visited the boat for years but simply renew their licence online for sentimental reasons? Curious. 

When I read this I genuinely wasn't sure whether my old paper licence was still in it's window holder.  It's not really a thing I think about much.  Turns out it's not there so I must have taken it out at some point.

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On 23/06/2022 at 12:12, Idle Days said:

 

Not at all, I'm simply wondering why I should pay a licence fee to CRT when so many apparently do not.  

 

As far as I know it is a CRT requirement that I display a valid licence on both sides of my boat, which is what I do. Am I correct on that point or not?

 

 

 

No, you're not correct.  The law says you must, but CRT say you don't need to as they now have other ways of checking.  There's no good reason for going through all the trouble and cost of changing the law, so it's ended up like many archaic old laws which stay on statute but nobody bothers with any more.

 

Just because a law could technically be enforced, the enforcing body commonly has the choice as to whether its expedient to actually take any action.  Paper boat licences are firmly in that category.

 

Something about shooting Welshmen inside Chester city walls after dark...

Or is that one a myth?

On 23/06/2022 at 12:26, Puffling said:

Branches of Ryman and many local libraries will print out a PDF you supply on a thumb drive, for a nominal fee.

A nominal fee, or pay nothing and save a trip to Rymans...

Hmm, it's a toughie...

On 23/06/2022 at 14:34, Jerra said:

I am well aware of that Arthur.   The point I was making really was the way some squeal because CRT "changes the law" and they don't like it but are quite prepared to shut up when they like the idea.

 

So really the squeals aren't because CRT has "changed the law" but because it might impinge on them doing what they want to.

The squeals are generally because the change is deemed unfair or unreasonable in some way.  There are quite a few things which CRT do which don't affect me at all, but I'm vehemently opposed to because they cause needless harm to others.  It's called caring.

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45 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Turns out it's not there so I must have taken it out at some point.

Probably when you cleaned your windows.  Apparently, some folk don't... :o :D

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Catching sight of my licence, as I washed the dishes this evening, I saw that I am requested to display it on each side of my boat. Why is this if it is not required?

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1 hour ago, Idle Days said:

Catching sight of my licence, as I washed the dishes this evening, I saw that I am requested to display it on each side of my boat. Why is this if it is not required?

I don't know if it is required on both sides - our freshly washed dishes are only displayed on the starboard side where the draining board is..

 

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14 hours ago, Idle Days said:

Catching sight of my licence, as I washed the dishes this evening, I saw that I am requested to display it on each side of my boat. Why is this if it is not required?

Because it's now requested, not required. There's a difference.

CRT don't check them so they're irrelevant, but grumbling about apparently unlicensed boats gives a lot of boaters much pleasure so they still issue them for nondisplay purposes.

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17 hours ago, Idle Days said:

Catching sight of my licence, as I washed the dishes this evening, I saw that I am requested to display it on each side of my boat. Why is this if it is not required?

If you ventured into the Leek branch of the Caldon, you can't have failed to notice Idle Day's (the apostrophe distinguishes it from the OP's boat) moored offside, yet displaying no licence in the windows 😱

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