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CO Alarm bargain?


Rebotco

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43 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

As someone already said, LCD displays on CO alarms are a bit of a gimmick. Either the alarm goes off or it doesn't. If it goes off you get out. You don't need to see that it's reading 40ppm

 

I've got a a Kidde alarm with a display in the saloon which reads 18ppm wherever I put it - even if I put it outside! The accuracy of any CO alarm display is questionable and its utility is negligible.

 

You've just been faffing about trying to reduce the fumes inside your boat from other boats' stoves and engines.  Are you 100% sure it is not displaying the correct reading near your boat, inside or out?

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36 minutes ago, blackrose said:

So looking at these specs of a CO alarm is it a Type 1 or Type 2?

 

 

 

 

IMG_20220119_183329.jpg

IMG_20220119_183257.jpg

As stated, it’s 50291-2, but the manufacturer didn’t opt to certify that model for boat use.

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33 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You've just been faffing about trying to reduce the fumes inside your boat from other boats' stoves and engines.  Are you 100% sure it is not displaying the correct reading near your boat, inside or out?

 

Yes I'm 100% sure. It's been reading 18ppm for years.

 

19 minutes ago, AndrewIC said:

As stated, it’s 50291-2, but the manufacturer didn’t opt to certify that model for boat use.

 

Ok. I see, but essentially there's no difference between 50291-2 alarms whether the manufacturer decides to say they can be used on boats or not?

Edited by blackrose
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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

As someone already said, LCD displays on CO alarms are a bit of a gimmick. Either the alarm goes off or it doesn't. If it goes off you get out. You don't need to see that it's reading 40ppm

 

I've got a a Kidde alarm with a display in the saloon which reads 18ppm wherever I put it - even if I put it outside! The accuracy of any CO alarm display is questionable and its utility is negligible.

I think your reply exactly illustrates the benefit of an LCD display.

It is telling you that either you or a neighbour is introducing CO into your boat. Or possibly your monitor is faulty.

Either way, it is information you will want to act upon.

Without the display you would have no idea of either danger.

 

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1 hour ago, AndrewIC said:

As stated, it’s 50291-2, but the manufacturer didn’t opt to certify that model for boat use.

I don’t understand it all. 
But I don’t think it’s a matter of the manufacture not ‘opting’ to certify that model for boat use, more likely the manufacturer is not permitted to do so .

As I said earlier, the safety examiner did explain the differences to me but I weren’t really listening.

I just wanted my certificate.

But I did pay attention to the advisories and bits and bobs that needed seeing to. 

 

 


 


 


 

 

Edited by Goliath
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2 hours ago, Goliath said:

Meets both standards 

 

 

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

Ok. I see, but essentially there's no difference between 50291-2 alarms whether the manufacturer decides to say they can be used on boats or not?

 

 

Think about the gas safe engineers - they have to qualify separately to be able to work on LPG, and then separately again to work on domestic LPG, and separately again to work on caravan LPG and separately again to work on Boat LPG systems.

 

The part 2 specification for the alarms is similar, there are certain criteria the manufacturer can choose to meet and in this case the manufacturer had decided that the market for boat CO alarms is so small he is unlikely to recoup the cost of submitting samples and paying for 'boat approval' - hence the boat symbol is X'd thru and the alarm is not approved for boat use.

He has had the alarm tested to whatever the caravan tests require and it has passed.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, Rebotco said:

I think your reply exactly illustrates the benefit of an LCD display.

It is telling you that either you or a neighbour is introducing CO into your boat. Or possibly your monitor is faulty.

Either way, it is information you will want to act upon.

Without the display you would have no idea of either danger.

 

Exactly. 

 

Or if you have your own fuel burning appliances it will give you an advance warning. 

 

I hear a lot of boats have multi fuel stoves. Some people even burn wood on them and even more shockingly some of the stoves have baffle plates on them. 

 

It seems a no brainer to be able to find out if there is a problem before it becomes an actual danger. 

 

I wish I had had one of these devices 20 years ago while running the EX650 generator on the back deck of the boat ! Migraines will be migraines. 

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2 hours ago, Rebotco said:

I think your reply exactly illustrates the benefit of an LCD display.

It is telling you that either you or a neighbour is introducing CO into your boat. Or possibly your monitor is faulty.

Either way, it is information you will want to act upon.

Without the display you would have no idea of either danger.

 

 

No I don't think so. As it's been stuck on 20ppm for some time the indicator is obviously faulty. That doesn't necessarily mean the detector/alarm itself is faulty - unless you think that all CO alarms without indicators are faulty?

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

Think about the gas safe engineers - they have to qualify separately to be able to work on LPG, and then separately again to work on domestic LPG, and separately again to work on caravan LPG and separately again to work on Boat LPG systems.

 

The part 2 specification for the alarms is similar, there are certain criteria the manufacturer can choose to meet and in this case the manufacturer had decided that the market for boat CO alarms is so small he is unlikely to recoup the cost of submitting samples and paying for 'boat approval' - hence the boat symbol is X'd thru and the alarm is not approved for boat use.

He has had the alarm tested to whatever the caravan tests require and it has passed.

 

So the answer was "yes" ?

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53 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Exactly. 

 

Or if you have your own fuel burning appliances it will give you an advance warning. 

 

Yes, in my case it's been giving me the same advance warning for at least 4 years.

 

It's time to buy a couple of new ones anyway.

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They do hold the previous high measurement in memory but the reading should show zero under normal circumstances and rise if there is a problem.

 

One of mine will show 48ppm when button pressed but this is not the current reading it is a previously achieved high reading (last week). 

 

Not sure how one resets that and it's a good point. If the device is reading a fixed ppm without any interaction then suspect it could be faulty. 

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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

No I don't think so. As it's been stuck on 20ppm for some time the indicator is obviously faulty. That doesn't necessarily mean the detector/alarm itself is faulty - unless you think that all CO alarms without indicators are faulty?

Would you trust your life on a guess that it might be faulty or not?

I sure wouldn't.

Just as well you're planning replacing it.

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40 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

Would you trust your life on a guess that it might be faulty or not?

I sure wouldn't.

Just as well you're planning replacing it.

 

The indicator was faulty, the detector was not. It was tested regularly. How do you test yours? Surely you don't rely on the cheap ppm indicator to tell you if it's working properly? I wouldn't!

 

Look at these results from a HSE survey of household CO detectors. Although indicators aren't within the main scope of the survey, the inaccuracy of the indicators is quite clear and they shouldn't be relied on. How could an indicator for a detector with a threshold of only 30ppm possibly be useful if the indicator error might be between -18% to +42%?

 

It's pretty obvious really. If you want accurate gas analysis equipment you'll need to pay a bit more than 15 quid! The gas analysers we use at work cost thousands and have to be calibrated regularly.

 

IMG_20220119_235800.jpg

Edited by blackrose
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I need one by Feb 1st, are they available in stores such as B&Q or do I need to rely on the internet and the model ordered being the right one for the job? It seems a bit of a lottery if the posts on this thread are to be believed

 

Incidentally, I get that ones for use in a vehicle need to be more robust, but what would exclude use on a boat but not a caravan? 

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1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

I need one by Feb 1st, are they available in stores such as B&Q or do I need to rely on the internet and the model ordered being the right one for the job? It seems a bit of a lottery if the posts on this thread are to be believed

 

Incidentally, I get that ones for use in a vehicle need to be more robust, but what would exclude use on a boat but not a caravan? 

 

I seem to remember that part of it was something to do with boats rolling 45 degrees which caravans seldom do.

Just different test criteria.

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On 18/01/2022 at 19:31, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The BSS cannot legally impose any requirement to 'protect you from yourself' (which is why suicide is legal). 

 

What is the third-party safety benefit for not using the boat hull as the return for the electric horn?

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9 hours ago, Tacet said:

What is the third-party safety benefit for not using the boat hull as the return for the electric horn?

The horn might not work? 😄 (as intended to be not entirely serious)

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11 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Incidentally, I get that ones for use in a vehicle need to be more robust, but what would exclude use on a boat but not a caravan?

Vibration - caravan's "rumble" along the road, boats have engines (and the odd serious impact with lock sides according to Tim and Pru)

 

Or they don't "get " the difference between a Springer in Milton Keynes and a 28ft yacht on the Solent...

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Just replaced the greater than 7 year old and life expired -1 certified monitor in the living (good name!) room with this. £15 from Screwfix, -2 standard, certified for boat use and no lcd display to worry, or confuse me below the alarm level! 😀

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I wish to register a complaint with the people who write the CO and fire alarm standards. Why don't they standardise the pitch between the wall fixing screws? This is the third CO alarm and the second fire alarm that I've fitted in the living room of my boat. Every one has had a different distance between the fixing holes, meaning that the wall behind them is getting peppered with obselete holes.

A little annoying for something that is so easy to standardise.

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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We have had this issue with fire extinguishers.  Each new set has slightly different fixing brackets with non-standard hole spacing.  We use sticky Velcro patches for the smoke alarm and stand the CO detector on a high level shelf.

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1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I wish to register a complaint with the people who write the CO and fire alarm standards. Why don't they standardise the pitch between the wall fixing screws? This is the third CO alarm and the second fire alarm that I've fitted in the living room of my boat. Every one has had a different distance between the fixing holes, meaning that the wall behind them is getting peppered with obselete holes.

A little annoying for something that is so easy to standardise.

Just as a thought, next time you’re at Screwfix get some of THESE and sack the screws off completely?

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