How cruisable is a widebeam?

[Mike1951]

I know someone who is hoping to buy a boat and live aboard, (with a permanent mooring not CC). He looked at some narrowboats, but his other half said they are too small, so they have looked at a couple of widebeams, which got the thumbs-up from her. The area they want to moor is the GU north of Berkhamsted or the middle/upper Thames. He would like to be able to do a bit of cruising at weekends too. Obviously plenty of room to manouvre on the Thames, but how much room to navigate on the GU for a fat boat? I can't imagine it will be too easy to find liveaboard permanent moorings either? Any advice appreciated.

[Tracy D'arth]

I believe that the GU is a designated narrow canal. Not for wide beams.

[Bee]

I've taken a 11' 4" beam tug along virtually all the interconnected Southern waterways, the draft was about 2'6" and the boat had a shallow v bottom with a decent chine so considerably easier than the usual slab sided flat bottomed wide 'narrowboat.' Dead easy on the Severn and Thames. Challenging on the Kennet and Avon in places. Challenging but worthwhile on the Wey and sort of OK on the GU but the further North we went the less enthusiastic we got. Turned round near Blisworth and came back - mostly due to time restraints and the horrible weather (we had to drop the wheelhouse every day and got wet) but I would not really fancy steering a wide boat up and down the GU very much. Proper liveaboard moorings? I've never tried but not easy to find I would think.

[blackrose]

37 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I believe that the GU is a designated narrow canal. Not for wide beams.

 

I thought that was only north of Berko. The OP does mention north of Berko but your statement seems to indicate it's the entire GU that's not for widebeams which isn't the case.

24 minutes ago, Bee said:

I've taken a 11' 4" beam tug along virtually all the interconnected Southern waterways, the draft was about 2'6" and the boat had a shallow v bottom with a decent chine so considerably easier than the usual slab sided flat bottomed wide 'narrowboat.' Dead easy on the Severn and Thames. Challenging on the Kennet and Avon in places. Challenging but worthwhile on the Wey and sort of OK on the GU but the further North we went the less enthusiastic we got. Turned round near Blisworth and came back - mostly due to time restraints and the horrible weather (we had to drop the wheelhouse every day and got wet) but I would not really fancy steering a wide boat up and down the GU very much. Proper liveaboard moorings? I've never tried but not easy to find I would think.

 

Yes like you I've taken a 12ft widebeam on many southern waterways without a problem. However, the OP's friends are advised to moor on a suitable waterway for a widebeam especially if they plan to cruise. I'm afraid that doesn't include the GU north of Berko.

 

By the way, mine is a typical slab sided flat bottomed boat but I didn't find the K&A particularly challenging (apart from navigating the current of the Kennet in spate). I went all the way from Reading to Bristol in 8 days single handed.

Edited November 30, 2021 by blackrose

[matty40s]

I've moved fatties up and down the GU and hated it. I've only done it in the Winter months when little else was moving and since about 4 years ago, will not move another widebeam on the GU.

There are far too many boats(wide and narrow) moored on the towpath, space when passing is sometimes limited by tree growth on the offside...more so in recent years.

Moving a fattie is slow, hard work and having to book passage through tunnels is a pain. Some of the pounds are so narrow that both sides of the baseplate drags through the silt/puddling making progress slow and steering difficult. 

No doubt Blackrose will come along and say how lovely it is....but if that's their choice of  boat size, stick to the Thames, or other rivers, or go up North.

Edited November 30, 2021 by matty40s

[GUMPY]

We used to have a 60ft x 11ft6 barge on the GU at Berko, in 10 years we went up to Stoke Bruene once for Christmas also did  the Lee and Stort once. Most of our boating was a sprint down to Brentford and then leisurely boating up the Thames or down the Thames to the East Coast / Medway. This was all over nine years ago when it was quieter than it is now, would I do it again now ? NO. 

The Barge is now at Staines on Thames where it has been kept since we sold it in 2012 a far more suitable place.

 

[blackrose]

3 minutes ago, matty40s said:

 

No doubt Blackrose will come along and say how lovely it is....but if that's their choice of  boat size, stick to the Thames, or other rivers, or go up North.

 

You obviously didn't read what I said above? I said widebeams are not suitable on the GU north of Berko.

Edited November 30, 2021 by blackrose

[Bacchus]

4 minutes ago, matty40s said:

 stick to the Thames

 

 

They don't fit* on the Thames unfortunately.

 

 

*They fit physically, but aesthetically -- bleurgh! No!

 

 

[mrsmelly]

Two simple facts. Widebeams or fat narrowboats are VASTLY as in VVAASSTTLLYY better to ljve on than a narrowboat.

Second fact is, there are far more cruising ranges for a narrowboat than a fattie. I wouldnt want a fattie on the GU or K and A personaly, they are far better on such as for instance the Thames or the Trent.

[blackrose]

1 minute ago, Bacchus said:

 

 

They don't fit* on the Thames unfortunately.

 

 

*They fit physically, but aesthetically -- bleurgh! No!

 

 

 

On the contrary. It's narrowboats that don't fit in on the Thames. When you get a narrowboat on a decent size river the proportions just look ridiculous.

[matty40s]

20 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

You obviously didn't read what I said above? I said widebeams are not suitable on the GU north of Berko.

It's not what you used to say, and I was typing as you posted so didnt read it first.

[Victor Vectis]

1 hour ago, Mike1951 said:

I know someone who is hoping to buy a boat and live aboard, (with a permanent mooring not CC). He looked at some narrowboats, but his other half said they are too small, so they have looked at a couple of widebeams, which got the thumbs-up from her. The area they want to moor is the GU north of Berkhamsted or the middle/upper Thames. He would like to be able to do a bit of cruising at weekends too. Obviously plenty of room to manouvre on the Thames, but how much room to navigate on the GU for a fat boat? I can't imagine it will be too easy to find liveaboard permanent moorings either? Any advice appreciated.

 

No.

Please, no.

Don't even think of it.

Please.

[Mike1951]

CRT say you can take a 12'6" beam up the GU as far as Camp Hill, so they would need to find a boat narrower than this. As I suspected, for enjoyable crusing  looks like they are limited to the rivers in practice.

 

[matty40s]

9 minutes ago, Mike1951 said:

CRT say you can take a 12'6" beam up the GU as far as Camp Hill, 

 

....there was a 12'6" beam had to be dragged backwards out of a bridge hole at the bottom of Stockton a month ago so don't believe everything CRT factsheets tell you. It was headed to Knowle and is currently unable to get there.

[Ex Brummie]

A long widebeam on the Upper Thames would be very challenging given the tight bends and shoals. It can be challenging in a narrow boat.

[Mike1951]

 

8 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

A long widebeam on the Upper Thames would be very challenging given the tight bends and shoals. It can be challenging in a narrow boat.

Do you think the Thames South of Oxford would be practical?

[Thames Bhaji]

6 hours ago, Mike1951 said:

 

Do you think the Thames South of Oxford would be practical?

We have a 12’6” x 55” and don’t have any problems on the Thames below Oxford. 

[Bacchus]

9 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

On the contrary. It's narrowboats that don't fit in on the Thames. When you get a narrowboat on a decent size river the proportions just look ridiculous.

 

Indeed; and don't get me started on a couple of single-handed 70' narrow-boats taking up an entire town mooring designed for half a dozen visiting cruisers... and l they can all look a bit precarious trying to get under a bridge when there is any kind of flow on!

 

To be fair I actually quite like a lot of wide-beams, will probably own one myself one day (or a barge) - some of them can have very pleasing proportions (I think up to about 9-10' beam seems to work well, much over that and they can start to look a bit breeze-blocky) - and have nothing against most boats.

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

To be fair I actually quite like a lot of wide-beams, will probably own one myself one day (or a barge) - some of them can have very pleasing proportions (I think up to about 9-10' beam seems to work well, much over that and they can start to look a bit breeze-blocky) -

 

"Quite a lot" is going a bit far but I agree, some of the narrower widebeams can look ok. The 9ft 6in Moon Boats on the K&A look very well-proportioned. Once a widebeam gets over about 10ft the builders tend to raise the roof height too by a foot or so, which makes them tower over narrowboats nearby. 

[Bacchus]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

. The 9ft 6in Moon Boats on the K&A look very well-proportioned

 

 

Just had a google - and I have to agree*; they are really good looking boats

 

 

*once I had got past google trying to sell me these:-

 

[Bee]

10 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

 

 

By the way, mine is a typical slab sided flat bottomed boat but I didn't find the K&A particularly challenging (apart from navigating the current of the Kennet in spate). I went all the way from Reading to Bristol in 8 days single handed.

Ah! Yes, there is a dent in the side of our boat where I was proceeding sideways down the Kennet and chanced upon a narrowboat coming upstream, the pointy end of the narrowboat made a bit of a dent in 'Bee' (there is also a tiny dent in the other side of Bee where the current got it at that horrible swing bridge whose name I have forgotten)  In fact there are a number of dents in Bee none of which were my fault.....

[koukouvagia]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

....there was a 12'6" beam had to be dragged backwards out of a bridge hole at the bottom of Stockton a month ago so don't believe everything CRT factsheets tell you. It was headed to Knowle and is currently unable to get there.

That bridgehole is tricky even for narrowboats.

[Victor Vectis]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

....there was a 12'6" beam had to be dragged backwards out of a bridge hole at the bottom of Stockton a month ago so don't believe everything CRT factsheets tell you. It was headed to Knowle and is currently unable to get there.

 

I wonder if it was it heading for that new marina just south of the Black Boy pub?

Theres a fatarse, sorry, widebeam moored on the offside there the last couple of times I've been that way.

 

And theres been another knocking about in that pound too.

 

I hope the rash isn't spreading northwards.

[blackrose]

14 hours ago, matty40s said:

It's not what you used to say, and I was typing as you posted so didnt read it first.

 

I think you're confused. I've never advocated taking widebeams onto navigations which aren't suitable. Next time think about what you're saying before you misquote me or take what I've said out of context.

Edited December 1, 2021 by blackrose

[Drayke]

On 30/11/2021 at 20:50, Mike1951 said:

I know someone who is hoping to buy a boat and live aboard, (with a permanent mooring not CC). He looked at some narrowboats, but his other half said they are too small, so they have looked at a couple of widebeams, which got the thumbs-up from her. The area they want to moor is the GU north of Berkhamsted or the middle/upper Thames. He would like to be able to do a bit of cruising at weekends too. Obviously plenty of room to manouvre on the Thames, but how much room to navigate on the GU for a fat boat? I can't imagine it will be too easy to find liveaboard permanent moorings either? Any advice appreciated.

We have been all the way up to Camps Hill on the GU, our fat boat is 60’ x 11’, with no real problems. We have been up to Lechlade on the Thames, with no real problems. We have done all of the K&A, not a very easy canal to do, and the Avon down to Bristol. We have also been up the river Seven from Bristol to Stourport and the river Avon to Stratford on Avon. Nearly forgot that we have also done all of the river Wey. Hope this is of help to your friends in their plan to buy a fat one.