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Buying my first boat


HannahDee

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19 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

A proper base plate grit blasting, zinc plating and 2 pack treatment at Debdale wharf will not cost as much as the surveyor quoted, more like £2.5K to £3K  with a 10 year guarantee.

Ignoring the present crazy prices horrible interior and the non existent heating, its still hugely over priced for a 27 year old mass produced boat built by a very economy priced builder.

Bear in mind that your insurance company will most likely demand a full hull survey repeated every 5 years on a boat of this age.

Just out of interest, would anyone guarantee any baseplate coating, its going to be abraded if it leaves the marina, this must remove the coating and expose metal. 

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17 hours ago, robtheplod said:

When I come to sell my boat I'll moor in Paddington with a big sale sign up and see what i can get... :)

I know someone who took a winter mooring in Bancroft Basin, Stratford, specifically to sell his boat.  Put a big for sale sign up for all the tourists to see.  It worked.

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Just out of interest, would anyone guarantee any baseplate coating, its going to be abraded if it leaves the marina, this must remove the coating and expose metal. 

We had our base plated done a few years ago and when the boat was in dry dock again a wee while ago the base plate was still completely covered in what I had been done with. No abrasions at all yet we have been on some shallow canals.

As I have said before, the idea that bottom plates don't need treating arose as very few yards can do it.

 

haggis

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For the current market the price doesn't look mad, though if it was bought recently it'd be interesting to know if it went for less, and if so, how much less...

 

A diesel heater which starts and switches off could be as simple as a fuse or low voltage.

 

If the external paint job is really poor, an external repaint is a major job, more so than the others that might need doing.

 

Wouldn't read too much into the quick sale if it's being sold in London. Easy for someone to think continuous cruising London on a boat is a great idea to save money and then realise it's difficult and winter is cold, especially if they actually do have a job offer in a city they can pay less for a flat in. Then again, they could have done a rush paint job after buying the boat for a lot less money...

 

VC marine aren't particularly expensive as brokers go especially considering the location but the boats they sell seem to be very "budget" boats in other respects.

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1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

Then again, they could have done a rush paint job after buying the boat for a lot less money...

I must say that it has crossed my mind that this might be a flip job. Buy cheap, quick splash of paint, sell with a "good" reason for selling quickly.

 

I don't know what prices are like these days, other than "high", but I think I'd be walking away from this one.

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If you are buying without a survey,I think you should be entitled to a substantial discount.

If your purchase turns out to need a full overplate reckon on about £200 per foot.

You are taking the risk not the vendor,so you need to some cover against what might be needed.

As an aside,I have found most people straight and honest,except when money is involved.The larger the amount the more chance of dishonesty.

Keep your wits about you!

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9 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

The sale of goods act does not apply to private sales.

 

Actually that is not quite 100% correct.

 

If a private seller can be shown to have deliberately mis led a buyer the buyer does have some protection.

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-are-my-rights-when-buying-second-hand-goods-apeuz1f3nYUK

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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7 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Like an insurance company,you are taking the risk of major expence.

A discount can be regarded as an insurance premium.

The sale of goods act does not apply to private sales.

 

Where does 'entitled' come into it?

 

The seller might consider he has accounted for the risk in his low, low asking price.

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13 hours ago, haggis said:

As I have said before, the idea that bottom plates don't need treating arose as very few yards can do it.

Not so much "can" as "want to". Its a pig of a job - I know as I have done it. You get covered in rust and muck  cleaning it off. Then you get covered in blacking as it drips down your arm from the roller. I'm not surprised most boatyards don't want their staff to do that.

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8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Where does 'entitled' come into it?

 

The seller might consider he has accounted for the risk in his low, low asking price.

I don't think the boat (Kestrel) at now £39950 is a low price.

With respect,you seem to be talking (writing) from the point of view of the seller,I on the other hand I speak as one who has been a----holed on my first narrowboat,no one to blame for this except myself and am looking at this from the point of view of an inexperienced buyer.

Perhaps "entitled" is a poor choice of word,but I know now that I wouldn't be such an easy pushover when I buy my next boat.

At present sellers seem to have things their way,but I am fairly sure it won't last.

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46 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Because you are not going to be able to hold the seller to acount if something (major) comes to light two weeks after you buy it.

 

 

And, in my experience of trying to take a surveyor to court, neither can you hold a surveyor to account even the next day.

You have had the opportunity to have the boat surveyed and declined. Why would you even suggest that you could go back to the seller 2 weeks later.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Like an insurance company,you are taking the risk of major expence.

A discount can be regarded as an insurance premium.

The sale of goods act does not apply to private sales.

 

Why should a seller underwrite you purchase ?

He offers to sell you the boat that he values at £50k, and you say "I'll offer you £40k, without a survey", seller says "you can decide if you want a survey or not, its your choice but the price is £50k".

 

In the current market, unless the boat price is SERIOUSLY out of step with comparable boats it seems that the asking price is only the starting point, and can even result in there being 'offers considerably above' that price.

 

 

Buying from a broker you are generally buying from a Private Seller so the legal preoection is almost non-existent :

 

 

Did you buy it from a private seller?

When you buy from an individual (as opposed to a retailer), the Consumer Rights Act says that the goods you get must be as they were described to you by the seller.

There's no obligation on the seller to disclose any faults, but misrepresenting goods isn't allowed.

For example, something second-hand should not be described as new. If it is, the seller will be in breach of contract.

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And, in my experience of trying to take a surveyor to court, neither can you hold a surveyor to account even the next day.

You have had the opportunity to have the boat surveyed and declined. Why would you even suggest that you could go back to the seller 2 weeks later.

 

 

 

I didnt mention taking surveyors to court. They have too many get out clauses anyway.

 

But if the seller has misrepresented the boat when selling it you potentially have redress through a court.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

I didnt mention taking surveyors to court. They have too many get out clauses anyway.

 

But if the seller has misrepresented the boat when selling it you potentially have redress through a court.

 

 

 

It is very easy to NOT misrepresent the boat by simply saying "I don't know", 

 

When was it last blacked ? What thickness is the steel, ? when was the engine serviced  ? ...................... "I don't know".

 

The seller (as quoted in the above extract from Which) is not obliged to disclose any faults with the boat.

 

If the buyer is not competent or experienced enough to ascetain what they need to know then I'd suggest they employ a surveyor - the surveyor wil still miss things and you will have no come back, but you can only hope he finds any major problems (the one I used didn't and that's why I tried to take him to court)

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When was it last blacked ? What thickness is the steel, ? when was the engine serviced  ? ...................... "I don't know".

 

 

Same happens in house sales. Seller's solicitor submits a shedload of stupid questions (e.g. please confirm the land was not a mine or chemical plant), mine responds to every one of them with "buyer must rely on their own enquiries", or some such similar non-committal response. Trap swerved. 

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11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It is very easy to NOT misrepresent the boat by simply saying "I don't know", 

 

When was it last blacked ? What thickness is the steel, ? when was the engine serviced  ? ...................... "I don't know".

 

The seller (as quoted in the above extract from Which) is not obliged to disclose any faults with the boat.

 

If the buyer is not competent or experienced enough to ascetain what they need to know then I'd suggest they employ a surveyor - the surveyor wil still miss things and you will have no come back, but you can only hope he finds any major problems (the one I used didn't and that's why I tried to take him to court)

 

Indeed.

 

But if the buyer asks a specific question and the seller lies then that is grounds for a claim.

 

Saying 'I don't know' is not the same as misrepresentation.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I don't think the boat (Kestrel) at now £39950 is a low price.

 

Best you don't buy it then. 

 

People genuinely in the market to buy a boat now will make their own judgement, which might be different from yours given they actually want to buy a boat.

 

 

  • Greenie 1
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10 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Where does 'entitled' come into it?

 

The seller might consider he has accounted for the risk in his low, low asking price.

This is very true. When we sold mums house it was priced against its condition with the agent told most firmly that we were aware it needed lots of work.

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