Jump to content

Anyone passing Barrowford Locks?


LadyG

Featured Posts

6 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Do CRT spend something like 50m generating an income?

 

 

Everything you want to know is in the published accounts, have a hunt thru'

 

I was going to attach a copy for you but is is too large for the forum software.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Everything you want to know is in the published accounts, have a hunt thru'

 

I was going to attach a copy for you but is is too large for the forum software.

 

 

I remember a couple of years ago they gave the figure as 46m.

Can you give us a link to the accounts, please?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The average number of C&RT employees during 2020/21 was 1646, and, bearing in mind that much of the maintenance work is done by subcontractors (not employed) and lock keepers are now volunteers the atula true number of people 'working' in, or on behalf of the trust is much larger.

 

Total employment costs were £65.8 million.

C&RTs Pension Fund has a 'large hole' in it with a deficit of £45.6m from 2020/21alone.

 

I have no comparisons as there are few authorities such as C&RT to compare with, but from my own experiences of running a manufacturing business I'd expect a considerably higher income from 1600 employees.

 

You can't compare CART income/revenue per head with a manufacturing business, just like you can't compare a manufacturing business in one sector with one in a different one. The high-tech company I work for has an annual revenue of more than £1M per employee, but I wouldn't expect most manufacturing businesses to get anywhere near that.

 

It's easy to say "reduce costs and streamline management", but in an organisation like CART that relies heavily on subcontracting to actually *do* stuff a lot of the direct staff *are* going to be managers, because the "workers" mostly aren't on the CART payroll.

 

If CART employment costs were £66M over 1650 employees that's a direct cost of £40000 per employee; assuming this includes all indirect costs like pensions and NI not just salaries, this isn't actually that high.

 

Not trying to say that CART are super-efficient, but it's easy to say "reduce costs" until you look at what no longer gets done when you sack people -- which is what "reducing costs" usually means...

Edited by IanD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I remember a couple of years ago they gave the figure as 46m.

Can you give us a link to the accounts, please?

 

Annual Report & Accounts | Canal & River Trust (canalrivertrust.org.uk)

 

Do not be misled by the cost of 'raising funds' at £38 million, remeber there are many costs to add ito this figure to get the total costs (ie employee costs alone are £68.5 million)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Annual Report & Accounts | Canal & River Trust (canalrivertrust.org.uk)

 

Do not be misled by the cost of 'raising funds' at £38 million, remeber there are many costs to add ito this figure to get the total costs (ie employee costs alone are £68.5 million)

Thanks 

sorry, didn’t realise it was easily accessible through CRT website, I’d should have found it myself 

I will have a good look later

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

You can't compare CART income/revenue per head with a manufacturing business, just like you can't compare a manufacturing business in one sector with one in a different one. The high-tech company I work for has an annual revenue of more than £1M per employee, but I wouldn't expect most manufacturing businesses to get anywhere near that.

 

Agree and that is exactly what I said. I was asked for any experience of similar companies and said I could think of non comparable.

The service sector (Large Accountancy Practice) require the average income to be in excess of $2m per employee.

 

It is easier to shed labour costs at a higher level - I'm not refering to the 1550 employees aon the 'average salary' but to the 82 Managers and Directors earnimg between £60k and £240k

These 82 people (alone) required a Pension contribution of almost £500,000 on top of their salaries.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Agree and that is exactly what I said. I was asked for any experience of similar companies and said I could think of non comparable.

The service sector (Large Accountancy Practice) require the average income to be in excess of $2m per employee.

 

It is easier to shed labour costs at a higher level - I'm not refering to the 1550 employees aon the 'average salary' but to the 82 Managers and Directors earnimg between £60k and £240k

These 82 people (alone) required a Pension contribution of almost £500,000 on top of their salaries.

 

The question is -- are they all doing something useful for CART to justify their salaries, or sitting on their hands and collecting their fat pay cheques?

 

82 managers and directors earning above £60k in an organisation like CART with a budget of over £200M and thousands of direct and indirect employees isn't actually that many, if they're all in the first category (doing useful work). Any in the second category should be fired and the money put to better use. But any large organisation does need managers to make everything work together -- if they do it badly they should be replaced, but this doesn't mean you can remove the job if it's doing something useful and necessary (which of course isn't always the case...)

 

Just throwing big numbers like this out to try and show how badly run CART is doesn't help unless we know what they actually all *do* and which category they're in...

 

(for example, that pension contribution is maybe 5% of salary which is again quite low for any company, even though the £500000 number looks huge)

Edited by IanD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Agree and that is exactly what I said. I was asked for any experience of similar companies and said I could think of non comparable.

The service sector (Large Accountancy Practice) require the average income to be in excess of $2m per employee.

 

 

KPMG UK (for example) had a turnover of £2.3bn and 15,595 FTE employees year ending September 2020; that is just under £150k per employee.

 

https://home.kpmg/uk/en/home/media/press-releases/2021/02/kpmg-uk-reports-2020-annual-results-and-outlines-further-plans-to-invest.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tacet said:

KPMG UK (for example) had a turnover of £2.3bn and 15,595 FTE employees year ending September 2020; that is just under £150k per employee.

 

https://home.kpmg/uk/en/home/media/press-releases/2021/02/kpmg-uk-reports-2020-annual-results-and-outlines-further-plans-to-invest.html

 

KPMG is not an international company with common standards and processes it is a franchise (like McDonalds). The one I know 'closely' has the requirement of $2m/ employee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 06/01/2022 at 08:43, Naughty Cal said:

That's not what your original post said :rolleyes:

My original post asked about suitable moorings ahead of me. 

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Agree and that is exactly what I said. I was asked for any experience of similar companies and said I could think of non comparable.

The service sector (Large Accountancy Practice) require the average income to be in excess of $2m per employee.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tacet said:

KPMG UK (for example) had a turnover of £2.3bn and 15,595 FTE employees year ending September 2020; that is just under £150k per employee.

 

https://home.kpmg/uk/en/home/media/press-releases/2021/02/kpmg-uk-reports-2020-annual-results-and-outlines-further-plans-to-invest.html

 

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

KPMG is not an international company with common standards and processes it is a franchise (like McDonalds). The one I know 'closely' has the requirement of $2m/ employee.

 Which large accountancy practice has an average income per employee in excess of $2m per employee?   Is it the one of the big four that your son works for?

 

According to this https://www.statista.com/statistics, worldwide:

Deloitte - £143k

PWC - £146k

EY - £143k

KPMG - £129k

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, JamesWoolcock said:

So  what's this all got to do with Barrowford Locks and the stranded Lady G?

You guys know how to seriously go off topic, and I thought the Mods might have stepped in.

Quite easy to see how this thread followed the usual forum flow. A mention was made about the poor quality of C&RT workmanship at the services at Barrowford . This lead to posts about how more money was needed to enable C&RT to do a proper job this of course led to helpful.posts about how C&RT could get more money which of course involved comparisons with other companies. 

I don't think it has really wandered too far off topic 😂.   It will probably return to the start again when Lady Gs boat moves and we get an update. We are really just passing time waiting for the next episode. 

Edited by haggis
  • Happy 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Is it the one of the big four that your son works for?

 

Yes - as I explained  such as KPMG is Not a 'company' and each KPMG is an autonomous 'company' operating under their own business practices and 'local' requirements but operating under the guidance of "KMPG Corporate" and simply francises under the KPMG name.

 

It is similar with RSM, you apply to join (or are asked if you want to join) you are evaluated and if your structure is sound and are preofessional enough you can operate under the RSM Name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, haggis said:

Quite easy to see how this thread followed the usual forum flow. A mention was made about the poor quality of C&RT workmanship at the services at Barrowford . This lead to posts about how more money was needed to enable C&RT to do a proper job this of course led to helpful.posts about how C&RT could get more money which of course involved comparisons with other companies. 

I don't think it has really wandered too far off topic 😂.   It will probably return to the start again when Lady Gs boat moves and we get an update. We are really just passing time waiting for the next episode. 

Yes, I understand that and how it happens, so why don't you start another topic and stop wasting the time of folks who might want to know how Lady L's problems are progressing.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, JamesWoolcock said:

Yes, I understand that and how it happens, so why don't you start another topic and stop wasting the time of folks who might want to know how Lady L's problems are progressing.

Sorry if I and others have wasted your time but it is part of the charm of the forum that things wander off course a bit. As Lady G tells us that Sunday is D day  you can probably save yourself some valuable time by ignoring this thread till then 🙂 

Edited by haggis
  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Pie Eater said:

Lady G

 

Best of luck on Sunday and I hope you get your boat sorted before winter starts properly.

Lol, I think winter has arrived already, feeding the fire by the hour, had a bit of a temperature, hot toddy and lemon, bedsocks, ice and snow, gale force winds, is it just a prep run

PS, temp back to normal, not C

 

 

 

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Lol, I think winter has arrived already, feeding the fire by the hour, had a bit of a temperature, hot toddy and lemon, bedsocks, ice and snow, gale force winds, is it just a prep run

 

 

 

 

Yes, good luck for Sunday and I hope your temperature goes back to where it should be . I agree that the weather has been very wintery for the last few days but it was a nice mild spell before that so I suppose it is to be expected. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Pie Eater said:

Lady G

 

Best of luck on Sunday and I hope you get your boat sorted before winter starts properly.

 

It will warm up tomoro and the rain will melt this snow. Spring is here. 😀

  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, dmr said:

We keep saying that boats are important because that's what many visitors come to look at

 

I'm, inclined to suggest this is wishful thinking, there is an absolute TON of foot traffic on the Basy towpath and bugger-all boats there to look at. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'm, inclined to suggest this is wishful thinking, there is an absolute TON of foot traffic on the Basy towpath and bugger-all boats there to look at. 

 

Yes, its not clear cut. We went through Littleborough (Rochdale) a few weeks ago and the towpath was really busy but very few boats go through there. On the other hand we did Marple flight last year and had an audience at many locks, a woman with two young kids helped a bit at one lock and did the rest of the flight with us, giving a little help at every lock. Some people just go for a walk, a few go to see boats, some go for a walk and boats are a bonus, I doubt that many go to see the cyclists. 😀

 

If i'm outside doing boat jobs I reckon about 25% of towpath pedestrians stop for a little chat and a few questions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.