Anyone passing Barrowford Locks?

[Naughty Cal]

8 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I can, they they think as a woman I am a soft target, they must be right as they walk away with my money and its only after I find out they have ripped me off. 

I do as much as I can rather than pay others, but my electric skills are very limited, I don't have big tools, or anything, and anyway I don't really want to do much more than good maintenance and minor upgrades. The idea is to tootle along without a care in the world. 

I can assure you that it isn't because you are a woman.

 

I arranged a great deal of the work (that Liam couldn't do) on both the boat and the van and at no point have felt ripped off or felt that the tradesmen involved have been pulling the wool over my eyes.

 

The ideal may be tootling along without a care in the world but the reality is that just isn't the case. Travelling in a boat (or a van) involves a fair bit more effort than just pootling along. It isn't all blue skies, calm seas and golden beaches. But as an experienced lumpy water boater I would expect that you should already have known that! 

[LadyG]

56 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Anyway, back to your dilemma.

 Have they made a completely new rudder assembly or just welded the old shaft back together?

  A photo would be good?

I understand there is a new tiller boss, I think that is the word. 

A new rudder stock

A slotted attachment of stock to rudder plate, plus weld. I haven't seen it. I understand the tiller boss thingy will attach to the top of the stock which is prepared to take it, then presumably held in place with bolts or something, ie not welded to each other. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by LadyG

[bizzard]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I understand there is a new tiller boss, I think that is the word. 

A new rudder stock

A slotted attachment of stock to rudder plate, plus weld. I haven't seen it. I understand the tiller boss thingy will attach to the top of the stock which is prepared to take it, then presumably held in place with bolts or something, ie not welded to each other. 

Sounds like the Harborough Marine method, as my other post.  Which shouldn't need the boat well up clear of the ground, can be done with boat on the ground.  If the rudder blade slot in the stock is accurate nut and bolt it on, don't have it welded, but if it's a rotten sloppy fit it'll have to be welded.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have stopped working on others' boats. Most of the owners are a complete pain, don't want to spend any money but want everything perfect and gold plated.

My friend who changed the alternator last week for a guy had to do loads of running about and working in foul weather, never even got a thank-you. He did pay though, after arguing about the time taken and asking if the old rusted scrap alternator had any recycling value to knock off the bill.

 

The other problem I have found is the condition of some of the boats that need repair. I remember a boat with a Lister engine, water cooled, that needed new injector pipes, where the whole of the space around the engine and down into the bilge was full of clutter and  stuff. The owner expected me to remove it all and put it all back in exactly the same places. I walked off that one.

 

Some owners are their own worst enemies.

I'm happy to pay for expertise, which after all is what the engineer is selling. And why the few good ones are so hard to get hold of - two weeks before the current one can come and check the last one's work for me (which is probably ok but I want to be sure before I go off on the thing). And, as he'll have to get into the engine bilge space to get at what he needs to, it'll be pumped out and cleaned up before he comes - as a cruiser stern, there's always raineater in it and, currently, a certain amount of oil under the engine.

[Chagall]

5 hours ago, LadyG said:

If that's aimed at me, perchance, it's so wrong, no cups of tea, no wittering on, in four months I think I've spoken to the guy three times in person. 

Not particularly, but you ran with it. 🙂

 

With no disrespect intended to the sisterhood I think "wittering on" either orally or via text, is more of a female trait! 

[LadyG]

Hip hip hooray. 

Four months, four days and there is a new rudder, new boss, essentially something that looks like a professional job

I don't understand, engineering wise why a taper to top of tiller stock is strong, but I have faith. 

Cat has crossed his paws, he's not black, but otherwise lucky. 🍀

[LadyG]

On 11/03/2022 at 17:32, Chagall said:

Not particularly, but you ran with it. 🙂

 

With no disrespect intended to the sisterhood I think "wittering on" either orally or via text, is more of a female trait! 

Nope, I am moored opposite the drinks machine / picnic table, I can assure you it's occupied by men all day, chit chatting. I had a lecture on how electricity works on a boat from one of them when I was asking the marina if they had shore power. 🤔

Edited March 18, 2022 by LadyG

[MtB]

On 11/03/2022 at 13:02, Tracy D'arth said:

I have stopped working on others' boats. Most of the owners are a complete pain, don't want to spend any money but want everything perfect and gold plated.

 

^^^ This ^^^ ...I totally agree!

 

Managing the boaters as customers is FAR more trouble than doing the actual job, so like you I no longer work on other people's boats.

 

But when I'm the customer boater, I'm lovely to work for. Obviously...

 

[BEngo]

51 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

I don't understand, engineering wise why a taper to top of tiller stock is strong, but I have faith. 

Cat has crossed his paws, he's not black, but otherwise lucky. 🍀

If there is any movement between the boss and the stock one or other, or maybe both, will wear.  A plain  square or round un-tapered stock will over time and steering get looser and wear faster, and so on.  With a taper o  the stock, and one that matches in the boss  the boss can slide (or be pushed by its fastening)  further down the taper, so it all tightens up again.

 

If you can stand some fairly complicated trigonometry  have a look at how self-holding tapers work.  That explains why scientifficably.

 

N

[Tony Brooks]

56 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I don't understand, engineering wise why a taper to top of tiller stock is strong, but I have faith. 

 

It is not so much strong but more that as long a sit has no key in it then once the two halves of the taper (stock & swan neck boss) are tightened together it will semi-lock together and will not slip under normal use but if the blade gets swung into something the taper may slip and prevent damage to the stock or blade. Then provided you can get the tapers free it can be easily realigned. It also allows the rudder to be set slightly one way with the tiller straight ahead is prop walk under normal cruising is making handling difficult, but as you are an ex rag & stick sailor that would not be a consideration.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

If there is any movement between the boss and the stock one or other, or maybe both, will wear.  A plain  square or round un-tapered stock will over time and steering get looser and wear faster, and so on.  With a taper o  the stock, and one that matches in the boss  the boss can slide (or be pushed by its fastening)  further down the taper, so it all tightens up again.

 

If you can stand some fairly complicated trigonometry  have a look at how self-holding tapers work.  That explains why scientifficably.

 

N

Do I have to do anything. 

I asume I check for wiggle, if so, I and tighten up the bolt from above. 

There was a threaded bolt on top of the tapered, round rudder stock. I think this keeps boss on the rudder stock. 

I sort of thought something splined, matched with a grooved boss would work, but they would need to be matched. 

Anyways, it's all going to be better than the original bodge....., when rudder stock would not feed up through the ellum they cut it in two!!!!! 

DO NOT CUT THE RUDDER STOCK if there is an alternative, if you have to cut it, make sure it is stronger after welding than before.

Having challenged the fitters here to do the job properly, they succeeded 👍. Not a quick fix, 

Edited March 18, 2022 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

18 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Do I have to do anything. 

I asume I check for wiggle, if so, I and tighten up the bolt from above. 

There was a threaded bolt on top of the tapered, round rudder stock. I think this keeps boss on the rudder stock

 

Normally it should stay tight for years but if you find that you can wiggle the tiller without the rudder moving then, yes, tighten down that bolt. I would probably give a boss a good downward blow it the mooring hammer as well.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[LadyG]

12 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Normally it should stay tight for years but if you find that you can wiggle the tiller without the rudder moving then, yes, tighten down that bolt. I would probably give a boss a good downward blow it the mooring hammer as well.

I'wait till I've done a good bit of pottering and give it a tap, then a whack before I go on the Trent again. 

Brother is an engineer,  civil, but he did a design on the back of a fag packet to re design rudder blade which was same as proposed on here. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

Once fitted it really is not likely to loosen, Ours stayed nice and form for about 10 years until I had it taken apart to change a top bearing and then firm again for anther ten years after I refitted it. As BEngo said it is other designs that are more likely to cause problems.

[TheBiscuits]

53 minutes ago, LadyG said:

before I go on the Trent again. 

 

I thought you were heading for the Lancaster before the breach stopped you - it's supposed to open again soon.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I thought you were heading for the Lancaster before the breach stopped you - it's supposed to open again soon.

 

Maybe she looked at the various breaches and then decided where she would have been going if the breach had not happened.

As a result got 4 months free "Winter moorings" conveniently just outside the 'services'.

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maybe she looked at the various breaches and then decided where she would have been going if the breach had not happened.

As a result got 4 months free "Winter moorings" conveniently just outside the 'services'.

 

Well no, because she was only two miles from the breach site when it happened.  She's now about 20 miles back in the opposite direction.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Well no, because she was only two miles from the breach site when it happened.  She's now about 20 miles back in the opposite direction.

 

Good planning and insider information.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Once fitted it really is not likely to loosen, Ours stayed nice and form for about 10 years until I had it taken apart to change a top bearing and then firm again for anther ten years after I refitted it. As BEngo said it is other designs that are more likely to cause problems.

Same here and I am not looking forward to getting off to change the top bearing 

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Same here and I am not looking forward to getting off to change the top bearing 

 

Heat it and hit it!

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I'wait till I've done a good bit of pottering and give it a tap, then a whack before I go on the Trent again. 

Brother is an engineer,  civil, but he did a design on the back of a fag packet to re design rudder blade which was same as proposed on here. 

If its not broke don't (try to) fix it. If its OK leave it alone.

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Same here and I am not looking forward to getting off to change the top bearing 

 

I could not shift mine even with a couple of sledge hammers to shock the taper. Somehow Calcutt shifted it without any heat. They talked about a large bar.

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

I could not shift mine even with a couple of sledge hammers to shock the taper. Somehow Calcutt shifted it without any heat. They talked about a large bar.

I am getting a puller made up to put some weight on it before I hit it

[Mad Harold]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Once fitted it really is not likely to loosen, Ours stayed nice and form for about 10 years until I had it taken apart to change a top bearing and then firm again for anther ten years after I refitted it. As BEngo said it is other designs that are more likely to cause problems.

MZ 250 clutch drum fits on a taper on the crankshaft with no keyway.

There have only been a few incidents reported of the clutch drum slipping.

 

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I thought you were heading for the Lancaster before the breach stopped you - it's supposed to open again soon.

Yep, planning to go on to the Lancaster all summer, but might well go back to see family next winter, if I can get a free run at the L&L. So far I've managed to have my long term stoppages at nice places. Next winter I'll try for a marina with shore power, I think my batteries survived this year,  in a way, I'm happy to replace them if I've shortened their life due to minor mismanagement, but it would be nice not to be a slave to them three months of the year 🙂

Edited March 19, 2022 by LadyG