Replacing existing wood burning stove

[Balloon]

I am replacing my Morso Squirrel with a new stove which I have ordered and am awaiting delivery. The existing installation is a 4" vitreous stove pipe which goes through a roof collar and has a removable external chimney.

 

Please could someone explain to me firstly, how I can remove the existing stove pipe which appears to be one piece?

 

Secondly, I understand when fitting the replacement stove pipe, that each section slips down into the next, Male on top. In which case, I am unsure as to how to fit the last section. Do I just pass it through from the outside? The current stove pipe seems to sit in the roof collar centrally with a space around it - how do I create and ensure this spacing with the new stove pipe?

 

Lastly, if anyone has any tips or useful information please feel free to let me know.

 

Thank you

Cathy

[dmr]

As you talk of sections fitting together I assume you are fitting a twin walled flue? but I suspect the chimney collar is designed for a traditional single walled flue?????

[36national]

what do you want for the Morso ?

[matty40s]

3 minutes ago, 36national said:

what do you want for the Morso ?

Cremation.

 

To remove the existing flue, you will need to remove all the packing rope, silicone and maybe cement in the roof collar (which centralised the flue. Use a power drill with a large bore bit, screwdrivers and picks to do this.

Once free at the top, remove as much cement on the Morso collar as possible then start to twist the flue, tapping the flue with a hammer, this may end up in more than tapping!!. Flue will probably go up through the collar. There may well be a reducing collar on your squirrel given the 4" flue, try not to damage if planning on selling on the stove.

Your new flue does indeed slide in from the top, get it in place, use fire rope roundnand round packed down to centralise and then seal the top with fire rated silicone.

Then cement in the bottom end.

[Balloon]

@matty40s thanks, that was exactly the

helpful and detailed reply I needed. Really helpful. So as there are two 30 degree bends in the flue, I slot together the sections, bottom one first, using fire cement for each join, then drop the last one in from the top? 
 

I wanted to use twin wall but as you rightly point out @dmr the collar won’t permit that. 
 

@36national my current morso is f***ed. The previous owners have clearly over fired it at some point. The back panel is warped and buckled, as is the door. The top panel is cracked….

 

…what do you want to pay me for it😂😉😉😉

[matty40s]

Yes, but make sure the top section through the roof collar is silicone and rope only, no cement, as you need it to flex, otherwise it risks cracking the stove top if there is no expansion opportunity

 

[Balloon]

@matty40s you’re an absolute star. Thanks, I’m really grateful. 
 

any tips on securing it at the base? Current setup is a metal fire surround and base which the stove legs are screwed through 

[matty40s]

Depends on what your replacement is.

[Balloon]

@matty40s it’s an Ekol Apple Pie

[blackrose]

I don't like the idea of different sections of vitreous enamel flue pipe joined together inside a boat. A few bangs of the boat against lock walls and there's the real possibility of cracking the joints but not knowing about it and letting CO into the boat when you next light the stove.

 

It's better to get a one piece flue pipe made at a chandlers. They can weld the different angles together for you but they would need a drawing with dimensions.

 

Fit the one piece flue without the stove in place. Push it up through the roof collar and get someone to hold it there while you move the stove into position and drop the flue into the stove collar. Then seal the stove collar and roof collar with fire rope and a good sealant like Envirograf (1200C). It's better than fire cement.

Edited October 30, 2021 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

40 minutes ago, Balloon said:

it’s an Ekol Apple Pie

 

Are you sure that it a reasonable replacement  for a Morso ?

 

 

[Balloon]

@Alan de Enfield I don’t know if you’re joking? If you’re serious, can you tell me why you think it wouldn’t be? 

@blackrosei didn’t know that was a possibility. Where might one get this done? I haven’t ordered the flue yet so this is definitely an option 

[ditchcrawler]

18 minutes ago, Balloon said:

 

@blackrosei didn’t know that was a possibility. Where might one get this done? I haven’t ordered the flue yet so this is definitely an option 

I would have thought almost any boat yard could fabricate one. What part of the world are you in

[Ex Brummie]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

I don't like the idea of different sections of vitreous enamel flue pipe joined together inside a boat. A few bangs of the boat against lock walls and there's the real possibility of cracking the joints but not knowing about it and letting CO into the boat when you next light the stove.

 

It's better to get a one piece flue pipe made at a chandlers. They can weld the different angles together for you but they would need a drawing with dimensions.

 

Nothing wrong with vitreous flue. A thin rope insert into the joints will negate any leaks from joints, but even without, a drawing fire will pulll air into the flue. If the joints did leak CO, then in those circumstances you would still get CO leakage into the boat because you would have a blocked flue and it would leak back through the fire.

[Balloon]

I’ve looked again at the dimensions of the new stove and I think I can do it with a straight flue pipe anyway so the joins might not be an issue. 
 

@matty40s the collar is in the deck which is obviously slightly curved. The existing installation has the top section very slightly angled so it goes through the curved deck at 90 degrees to the deck rather than being vertical. 
 

Can I go through the slightly curved deck at vertical, meaning I guess that at the top it would not be central in the collar if it was central at the bottom. The curve is I would say similar to what I’ve seen on any other narrowboat, not an unusual level of curve. 
 

thanks for all your help so far
 

 

[David Mack]

You can get collars which are angled so the base is parallel to the roof but the flu is vertical. Or you can fit a tapered packing piece under a 90 degree collar. Hardwood is fine as the collar doesn't get that hot.

[blackrose]

12 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

Nothing wrong with vitreous flue. A thin rope insert into the joints will negate any leaks from joints, but even without, a drawing fire will pulll air into the flue. If the joints did leak CO, then in those circumstances you would still get CO leakage into the boat because you would have a blocked flue and it would leak back through the fire.

 

I disagree and I think you're wrong. There's nothing wrong with vitreous flue per se, but since it only comes in maximum of about 1.2m lengths then separate unsupported sections making up the flue inside the boat isn't a good idea. That's what one BSS inspector told me when I used to have vitreous enamel flue in my boat anyway. He thought the joint between the two sections was suspect. If the boat hits something and they shift a bit of thin fire rope isn't necessarily going to negate leaks.

 

You say leaking joints will draw air in rather than leak flue gases out... How can you be so sure? A crack from lower down on the stove should draw air in but half way up the flue pipe? Sorry but I think you're giving bad advice.

 

A single section flue is obviously going to be safer, but everyone is free to do what they want on their own boat, so carry on by all means...

Edited October 31, 2021 by blackrose

[BWM]

3 hours ago, Balloon said:

I’ve looked again at the dimensions of the new stove and I think I can do it with a straight flue pipe anyway so the joins might not be an issue. 
 

@matty40s the collar is in the deck which is obviously slightly curved. The existing installation has the top section very slightly angled so it goes through the curved deck at 90 degrees to the deck rather than being vertical. 
 

Can I go through the slightly curved deck at vertical, meaning I guess that at the top it would not be central in the collar if it was central at the bottom. The curve is I would say similar to what I’ve seen on any other narrowboat, not an unusual level of curve. 
 

thanks for all your help so far
 

 

The end of the flue must be square within the collar or you will never achieve a good seal, and nasty ooze will seep down the outside of the flue. A wedge shaped spacer under the collar may help, as was mentioned above. An offset flue will cost in the region of £300 but worth every penny if it is necessary for a good installation.

[Awayonmyboat]

I respectfully disagree that it is necessary for the flue to be square in the collar. I have a straight collar on a curve roof which means that the vertical flue pipe goes through at an angle to it (close to one side at the bottom, close to the other at the top). Fitting it, I simply centralised it with fire rope ensuring at no point was the flue touching the collar and then sealed above with a suitable silicon sealer. My chimney goes cleanly over the top and I have no problems with "ooze".

[Ex Brummie]

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

 

 

You say leaking joints will draw air in rather than leak flue gases out... How can you be so sure? A crack from lower down on the stove should draw air in but half way up the flue pipe? Sorry but I think you're giving bad advice.

 

 

Having fitted many flues over my working career, I am familiar with best practice and regs.With a 50mm overlap of the socket over the pipe, unless the top of the flue is totally blocked, you will never get fumes from the joint. The rope provides a seat as you get on the collar of the fire. If there is a blockage, it will come out of the vents or draught diverter.

[canals are us?]

Any separate flue bends put a couple of self tapping screws in after using fire cement to stop them coming apart. A simple metal drill bit and screw 2-3 screws in each flue join.

 

James.👍

[Ex Brummie]

If you feel the need to seal vitreous flue joints, then a proper flue jointing compound such as Purimachos FJC does the job. It is flexible .

[Balloon]

Thanks to everyone who has been incredibly helpful. I really appreciate it. Eagerly anticipating the new stove within 2 weeks!

 

feel free to contact me if anyone wants to buy a beaten up Morso Squirrel 1410 for parts in 2-3 weeks time.