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Painting outside of a narrow boat


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5 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Nicely found, however I suspect that as Blackrose recently said I couldn't afford that if I didn't live on the boat.   This might prove to be the main eye opener for the OP and if it is indeed only for leisure use then I agree with Lady G a shorter boat would be much easier to manage, and cheaper in many ways. 

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14 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

 

A good find but it always seems a travesty that you pay £3000 per annum and they do not even provide rings.

You are required to moor on Pins and are then reliant on the ground remaining firm & at the 'mercy of the speeders'.

 

Paying the same price in a marina, you at least get electricity and water alongside the boat and somewhere to park your car.

 

Apart from facilities, and not having 'random public' wandering past your boat there is not a lot of difference in mooring in a 'longitudinal housing estate and a 'conventional marina'

 

 

Electricity Supply
No Electricity Supply
Edging
Concrete Piling
Tie
Pins Required
Position
Online Towpath
Reference
GU-145-003-5297
Edited by Alan de Enfield
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53 minutes ago, LadyG said:

There is good reason to ask this question, as if it is owned in the course of a business, eg by Whilton or Venetian Marina, then it has to be 'fit for purpose' , this means not only must it be up to Boat Safety standards, or at least have a current (small can of worms) Certificate, but it must also be fit for purpose. A legal term, Consumer Rights /Trading Standards. 

If I were you I'd send an email reminding them of your essential requirements, ie purpose. You must ask if the boat owned by a business. Do not let them have any wriggle room, be polite but be firm. 

Demand, politely, proof of ownership, eg Bill of Sale, from commission to current owner. Recent bills  eg mooring fees, licence certificate, these should be readily available. It's your money, you have strong position. 

The next step is, the survey, then your Bill of Sale, I used the RYA copy. 

PS remember, if the roof is the only problem and everything else is fine, then don't worry too much. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. 

PPS my main negativity is the size of the boat, first boat, casual use,  inexperienced boater and small child. I live aboard, and mine is 57ft, but I'd prefer it to be shorter, easier to drive, cheaper to paint, cheaper licence, cheaper mooring fee. 

 

 

I like what you said.

I am going back there again to see the boat and I should have all these above questions ready to ask.

What is RYA?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

I like what you said.

I am going back there again to see the boat and I should have all these above questions ready to ask.

What is RYA?

 

 

 

RYA is the Royal Yachting Association.

The RYA have sample 'contracts' that can be used for buying a boat, but you will not have the option to use one as the marina (Whilton) will use their own contract paperwork.

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20 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

I like what you said.

I am going back there again to see the boat and I should have all these above questions ready to ask.

What is RYA?

 

 

Royal Yachting Association.

They cater for some of the needs for inland waterways as well as Offshore and sailing.

 

https://www.rya.org.uk/about-us/Pages/hub.aspx

 

https://www.rya.org.uk/get-afloat/power/Pages/canal-boats-and-inland-waterways.aspx

 

May I suggest you write your questions down so you don’t forget any you wish to ask.

When looking at a boat it is easy to dream of what may be and forget some of the essentials.

 

Also after a boat purchase it is often natural to have second thoughts.

 

The night before we bought our boat I couldn't stop thinking "What am I doing?"

The night after I thought "What have I done?"

 

Once you take ownership and get out on the water all this fades away, have fun and live life in the slow lane. :)

 

 

 

Edited by Ray T
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I think there may be confusion about continuous cruising: that is a boat which has a licence but has no home mooring. Essentially, they need to move on at least every 14 days. 

All other licenced boaters declare a home mooring, even though that mooring may not be long term. It is nothing to do with being Residential, which indicates a mooring which has Planning Permission for a boater to live on board 24/7, 365 days a year, such permission is unusual, they are rarely available. 

 

Edited by LadyG
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7 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Harefield Marina always seems to have spaces. Not too far from London.

 

Stonebridge could be on the River Lee (East London) or Grand Union Stonebridge near Alperton.

 

http://www.harefieldmarina.co.uk/

 

 

 

OP states her location is London and gives a Harringay post code.

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4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think there may be confusion about continuous cruising: that is a boat which has a licence but has no home mooring. Essentially, they need to move on at least every 14 days. 

All other licenced boaters declare a home mooring, even though that mooring may not be long term. It is nothing to do with being Residential, which indicates a mooring which has Planning Permission for a boater to live on board 24/7, 365 days a year, such permission is unusual, they are rarely available. 

 

I'm going to have to lie down in a dark room for a few hours, thats twice Ive approved of your posts!   🙂

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22 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

I like what you said.

I am going back there again to see the boat and I should have all these above questions ready to ask.

What is RYA?

 

 

The Royal Yachting Association. You can use their Bill of Sale, but adapt it. 

I looked on Venetian and Whilton websites for another likely boat, but they don't have many listed, I am sure they have plenty of boats on site. 

You should realise they are pretty slick operators, so make sure you get things in writing! 

Edited by LadyG
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2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The Royal Yachting Association. You can use their Bill of Sale, but adapt it. 

 

I really do not  think that Whilton will allow you to use 'your own' purchase contract and bill of sale - they are doing the 'selling'.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I really do not  think that Whilton will allow you to use 'your own' purchase contract and bill of sale - they are doing the 'selling'.

The buyer can walk away any time, they are doing the buying. 

Bill of Sale is a legal document transferring ownership of a boat, free of encombrances, if you don't have that you may be taking on any debts on that boat. 

Contract of sale,  I don't think I mentioned that here, but when I bought my boat the owner appointed an agent to hold his money, and hand over the keys. I documented this. The deposit was paid on my terms, the seller did not need to agree, he could find another buyer and I would find another boat. 

Edited by LadyG
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3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The buyer can walk away any time, they are doing the buying. 

Oh darn!  You just ruined the hat trick I was going for!   ...but you get the prize for stating the bleeding obvious and nothing to do with the point Alan made, both at the same time. 😉

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6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Would any broker allow you to use your own bill of sale when they sell you a boat?

It's a Bill of Sale, it's a legal document on its own, confirms the transfer of ownership of a vessel from one party to another. The idea is to have a paper trail, the relevant wording is 'sold, free of encumbrances' ie no debt attaches to the boat. 

The broker is not selling you his boat, he is acting as an agent for the vendor. Like an estate agent. 

Edited by LadyG
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2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It's a Bill of Sale, it's a legal document on its own, confirms the transfer of ownership from one party to another.

The broker is not selling you his boat, he is acting as an agent for the vendor. Like an estate agent. 

That doesn't answer my question.

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29 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That doesn't answer my question

Obviously, I can't speak for any broker, if you want to buy a boat you should demand a Bill of Sale, with other paperwork which mirrors the agreement. If they won't give you one you can walk away, otherwise accept its a risk, and hope that a previous owner, or some bailiffs don't turn up and demand the return of the boat. 

In the instance case of my dealing with New and not New brokers, the boat was subject to debt, they were not interested. Not even when I was asked to pay some random person, and not themselves. The boat was still offered for sale on their website after I told them.

Essentially the keeper of the boat did not own the boat outright, and he was not going to have any money paid to the broker.

Anyone can call themselves a broker, a few have proper legal procedures, but you can be sure they are there to protect themselves, good brokers have your money ring fenced. When I handed over my cash, it was not ring fenced, so I wrote up our agreement, in writing, and all parties had to sign. Much easier for me as I wrote the contract, in plain English, unambiguous. Yes the vendor was a bit surprised, but he had agreed the terms, all I did was confirm them in writing. It would not normally happen in a private transaction, but he appointd an agent because he was abroad at the time of the sale. 

The Bill of Sale was essentially a separate document, no mention of the agent because the sale is a transfer from  vendor to purchaser. 

Edited by LadyG
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1 hour ago, Ray T said:

Royal Yachting Association.

They cater for some of the needs for inland waterways as well as Offshore and sailing.

 

https://www.rya.org.uk/about-us/Pages/hub.aspx

 

https://www.rya.org.uk/get-afloat/power/Pages/canal-boats-and-inland-waterways.aspx

 

May I suggest you write your questions down so you don’t forget any you wish to ask.

When looking at a boat it is easy to dream of what may be and forget some of the essentials.

 

Also after a boat purchase it is often natural to have second thoughts.

 

The night before we bought our boat I couldn't stop thinking "What am I doing?"

The night after I thought "What have I done?"

 

Once you take ownership and get out on the water all this fades away, have fun and live life in the slow lane. :)

 

 

 

👍

17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It's a Bill of Sale, it's a legal document on its own, confirms the transfer of ownership of a vessel from one party to another. The idea is to have a paper trail, the relevant wording is 'sold, free of encumbrances' ie no debt attaches to the boat. 

The broker is not selling you his boat, he is acting as an agent for the vendor. Like an estate agent. 

What will be the  exact questions I need to ask regarding the ownership documents?

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18 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It's a Bill of Sale, it's a legal document on its own, confirms the transfer of ownership of a vessel from one party to another. The idea is to have a paper trail, the relevant wording is 'sold, free of encumbrances' ie no debt attaches to the boat. 

The broker is not selling you his boat, he is acting as an agent for the vendor. Like an estate agent. 

 

3 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

👍

What will be the  exact questions I need to ask regarding the ownership documents?

1.Can I see the transfer of ownership of the vessels?

2. Tearm 'sold '.

3 make sure no debt attached to the boat.

 

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I feel very sorry for the OP.A newbie would be boater dealing with a broker who "knows the game"is not to be envied.

A buyers survey is absolutely essential.It must be a surveyor chosen by the OP and not one recommended by the broker.

CWF should be essential membership for anyone thinking of buying a boat.

The good hearted members here will if asked with sufficient information about a prospective purchase,give opinons about a boat.

It could prevent a costly mistake.

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12 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

 

1.Can I see the transfer of ownership of the vessels?

2. Tearm 'sold '.

3 make sure no debt attached to the boat.

 

Yup. Ask whether Whilton or anyone associated/working with them own the boat or whether they are acting as a broker only. Also to confirm that the boat will be sold free of debt or outstanding finance. Other more experienced heads will add more questions. Worth putting your questions in writing so you have a trail (rather than just word of mouth). I'm sure most brokers have their own Bill of Sale templates they use. My boat was bought privately so we used the previous broker's paperwork to generate our own (ABNB). Before you commit to the survey please check the Ts &Cs of the contract you signed with Whilton in terms of your rights to reject the boat should the survey throw up significant issues. If in doubt share here so the wise sages can give them the once over. But absolutely do not consider not having a full survey with your choice of surveyor.

Edited by MrsM
Clarification re importance of survey
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Bill of Sale:

 

Mca Bill Of Sale - Fill Out and Sign Printable PDF Template | signNow

 

We are the third owners of our boat.

 

In the paperwork were the Bill of Sale transfer from the builder / fit out company, to the first owners, the first owners to the second.

We now have a Bill of Sale from the second owners to us.

 

Ask to see all the paperwork associated with the boat, service records, log book*  (if one exists) proof of past insurance, receipts of work done etc..

Most reputable owners will have kept records.

 

Unfortunately there is no real proof of ownership record with narrow boats. The above paperwork is your best "bet."

If none of this is available be very wary of buying any boat you look at.

 

*Log Book in the boating world is a record of journey's covered, e.g. Whilton to Braunston showing time taken,  engine hours run and any notes of interest etc.

This is totally different to the conventional log book of a motor vehicle on the highway.

 

As a matter of interest it is a legal requirement to keep a log book on ocean going vessels.

 

 

 

Edited by Ray T
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Whilton's Bill of Sale is very straightforward and shouldn't be a problem (assuming it's the same as Venetian's) and includes a line about "free from encumbrances"

I don't think we need to start confusing things by bringing up alternative agreements. 

 

@Tanmim H I presume they sent you their standard Pre Puchase Terms contract when you paid the deposit? 

This means that your next step is to sort out a surveyor for a Full Prepurchase Survey - people here can give recommendations for a surveyor, and get him to book a time with Whilton to survey the boat. 

The surveyor should be able to advise on the rust and any other things he finds wrong with the boat. If the rust is a major problem (needs replating) then their report should flag it up as a major defect the vendor needs to fix before selling you the boat. If it is a small problem (just needs scrape and paint) you will probably have to sort it out yourself afterwards, but you were already asking about that anyway ;)

The surveyor will be in a much better position than people here to judge that

 

 

There are a lot of moorings in Northamptonshire which is a nice short journey from London with a choice of great canals for weekends and holidays. Whilton will probably offer you a paid mooring option but it is a good idea to have a few in mind - maybe start a different thread to get people's opinions on different marina and boat storage options

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With ref to above I think Whilton had told the OP that only BSS necessary work would be done. If it and potentially other  issues are flagged as significant but the vendor is not prepared to get them done, or reduce the price, then I am concerned about her ability to reject the boat and recover her deposit. 

Edited by MrsM
Clarification
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