Painting outside of a narrow boat

[Tanmim H]

21 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

 

* Mike's comments referred to his locker, not the OP's dilemma.

 

** I think you are misrepresenting what Mike wrote and meant.

 

 

............... 'nuff said, let's remain available to assist Tanmim if she requests it.

I am now thinking what have a done by putting the deposit down for this boat?

Should I go for survey and see what happens?

The worse case I will lose 2k and walk away. ? Not 33k.

I appreciate all the advice you all have given taking your time out to write.

I am so confused now ?

 

 

[dmr]

Move up North, its much nicer than London and 33k will be a deposit on a very nice house. 200k will get a  stone built house in the countryside but still an easy commute to the big cities.

 

Do you really want to live on a boat or is it just a cheap house? Are you earning a lot of money in London? 

 

Only you can decide, buying boats is a difficult and risky affair, especially just now when the prices are high and they sell quickly.

 

But you only live once and living on a boat if done right can be much much better than living in an 'ouse.

 

...............Dave

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

I am now thinking what have a done by putting the deposit down for this boat?

Should I go for survey and see what happens?

The worse case I will lose 2k and walk away. ? Not 33k.

I appreciate all the advice you all have given taking your time out to write.

I am so confused now ?

 

 

 

No one really knows the state of the whole boat, only what can bees seen from your photo and the brochure and the inferences from our experiences and some reports about the vendor. Apart from the roof the boat might be a good one, we don't know. A survey by a surveyor of YOUR choice (the forum can recommend) will cost you maybe a bit less than £1000 including slipping the boat and putting it back in. So you can:

 

Loose £2000 and start all over again.

 

Pay another £1000 and you may get a good hull, loose £3000 or have enough in the  report to walk away at no cost although in that case  fear (but don't know) you may be faced with a squirming broker and a fight.

 

If you do buy the boat you know that you may be faced with a bill for  sorting out the roof in a manner that is likely to last.

 

Only you can make that decision.

 

If, and I accept it's by no means certain, you are intending to live aboard in London or around Bath please take on board that if you don't get a proper paid for mooring life can get very miserable and difficult. You really need to research that side of things and what CaRT expects you to do if you don't have a usually paid for home mooring. The cost of London moorings tend to be very expensive.

 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Tanmim H said:

I am now thinking what have a done by putting the deposit down for this boat?

Should I go for survey and see what happens?

The worse case I will lose 2k and walk away. ? Not 33k.

I appreciate all the advice you all have given taking your time out to write.

I am so confused now ?

 

 

 

It's pretty common to feel like you're feeling when it comes to buying your first boat. Your survey should give you leverage to reduce the price if it's a decent boat but just needs some work.

 

However, in reality the diy work on a boat never stops. I work on my 15 year old boat all the time and I had it built new. I had to fit it out and that's where the work started, but it never stopped and probably never will.

 

If you're not that way inclined then I'd really give the purchase some serious reconsideration - unless you've got lots of money to pay people to do the work.

 

If the vendor or broker is reasonable you shouldn't lose £2k

Edited April 5, 2021 by blackrose

[MrsM]

38 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

I am now thinking what have a done by putting the deposit down for this boat?

Should I go for survey and see what happens?

The worse case I will lose 2k and walk away. ? Not 33k.

I appreciate all the advice you all have given taking your time out to write.

I am so confused now ?

 

 

You poor thing. It's very daunting buying a boat. I can't see whether you have explained what you intend to use the boat for and where you will be based. Will you have access to repair/maintenance facilities? Are you handy or have friends and family who are? Much like houses (if not even more so), all boats need constant maintenance to keep them in good order. As Tony has said above your boat may be ok, but it is always going to be a bit of a risk. A full survey is the only way to find out for sure - but this inevitably entails further expense, which you will not be able to recover even if you are able to get your deposit returned. As mentioned earlier in the thread it is not unknown for brokers to refuse to refund the deposits on boats needing work so you need to be prepared to walk away or fight, should that happen to you. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. If not this one there will be other boats and you are in exactly the right place to get expert advice. 

[ditchcrawler]

One question that has not been mentioned, who owns the boat?

[dmr]

27 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

No one really knows the state of the whole boat, only what can bees seen from your photo and the brochure and the inferences from our experiences and some reports about the vendor. Apart from the roof the boat might be a good one, we don't know. A survey by a surveyor of YOUR choice (the forum can recommend) will cost you maybe a bit less than £1000 including slipping the boat and putting it back in. So you can:

 

Loose £2000 and start all over again.

 

Pay another £1000 and you may get a good hull, loose £3000 or have enough in the  report to walk away at no cost although in that case  fear (but don't know) you may be faced with a squirming broker and a fight.

 

If you do buy the boat you know that you may be faced with a bill for  sorting out the roof in a manner that is likely to last.

 

Only you can make that decision.

 

If, and I accept it's by no means certain, you are intending to live aboard in London or around Bath please take on board that if you don't get a proper paid for mooring life can get very miserable and difficult. You really need to research that side of things and what CaRT expects you to do if you don't have a usually paid for home mooring. The cost of London moorings tend to be very expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

I think maybe the forum is sometimes a bit hard on London CC'ers, in part because they have "stolen" a bit of our cruising system. There are certainly many boaters living very happily on the Western end of the K&A though I believe London is much worse, but I have no first hand knowledge and don't feel very keen to go and look.

 

We have experienced the best of the waterways, lots of relaxed boating in the countryside and civilized mooring in some cities, so to us London looks like Hell. But if a youngster has no previous boating experience or expectations then your own boat squashed in amongst friends in London is probably still a much better life than a crappy room in a shared house.

 

I've met a few ex London boaters who have enjoyed their time in London, but then decided boating is more important than London and so left.

 

I reckon London is probably OK if you go into it knowing what to expect and don't believe the rosy picture painted in newspaper articles, blogs and TV programs.

 

.............Dave

[Tony Brooks]

12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

One question that has not been mentioned, who owns the boat?

 

And in the case of the OP I bet she will be given the name of an individual. Was  there not a long thread about this sort of sharp practice and that broker a few years ago?

1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

I think maybe the forum is sometimes a bit hard on London CC'ers, in part because they have "stolen" a bit of our cruising system. There are certainly many boaters living very happily on the Western end of the K&A though I believe London is much worse, but I have no first hand knowledge and don't feel very keen to go and look.

 

We have experienced the best of the waterways, lots of relaxed boating in the countryside and civilized mooring in some cities, so to us London looks like Hell. But if a youngster has no previous boating experience or expectations then your own boat squashed in amongst friends in London is probably still a much better life than a crappy room in a shared house.

 

I've met a few ex London boaters who have enjoyed their time in London, but then decided boating is more important than London and so left.

 

I reckon London is probably OK if you go into it knowing what to expect and don't believe the rosy picture painted in newspaper articles, blogs and TV programs.

 

.............Dave

 

That I agree with. I have only been trying to get her to look into it a bit more. On a personal note there is no way I would happily moor for a moment longer than necessary amongst the  boats I saw and smelt at Victoria Park a number of years ago.

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

And in the case of the OP I bet she will be given the name of an individual. Was  there not a long thread about this sort of sharp practice and that broker a few years ago?

 

They lied to me about ownership of a boat I was interested in.

[Tanmim H]

42 minutes ago, MrsM said:

You poor thing. It's very daunting buying a boat. I can't see whether you have explained what you intend to use the boat for and where you will be based. Will you have access to repair/maintenance facilities? Are you handy or have friends and family who are? Much like houses (if not even more so), all boats need constant maintenance to keep them in good order. As Tony has said above your boat may be ok, but it is always going to be a bit of a risk. A full survey is the only way to find out for sure - but this inevitably entails further expense, which you will not be able to recover even if you are able to get your deposit returned. As mentioned earlier in the thread it is not unknown for brokers to refuse to refund the deposits on boats needing work so you need to be prepared to walk away or fight, should that happen to you. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. If not this one there will be other boats and you are in exactly the right place to get expert advice. 

The boat is for continue crusing it's for   holiday use in the nice weather months.

I will not get a permanent mooring as it's impossible anyway.

 I live near stonebridge canal as my permeant home.

Boat is for holiday season enjoying the sun and canal with my kids.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

They lied to me about ownership of a boat I was interested in.

Is anyone here from London?

[MrsM]

25 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

The boat is for continue crusing it's for   holiday use in the nice weather months.

I will not get a permanent mooring as it's impossible anyway.

 I live near stonebridge canal as my permeant home.

Boat is for holiday season enjoying the sun and canal with my kids.

Hi Tanmim. Do you mean the boat is NOT for cc'ing as a liveaboard? If you have a home and use the boat for leisure purposes, which is what we do, perhaps that takes a bit of pressure off? Speaking personally I think doing work on your boat is simpler when you are not having to live on it. And by "permanent mooring" I guess you mean a residential mooring? I've heard these are incredibly rare in London but perhaps non-residential, ie leisure, moorings are easier to come by? Our boat is on a leisure moorings at a marina in the East Midlands and it's super easy to work on as we have mains and water on tap as well as a carpark for transporting tools and materials. That said you still obviously want the best boat possible for your budget and I sincerely hope you find it as boating is wonderful!

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

The boat is for continue crusing it's for   holiday use in the nice weather months.

 

Have you investigated what 'continuous cruising' means ?

 

Do you mean Stonebridge on the River Lee ?

 

It means that you need to move a 'distance' to a new place (maybe several kilometres away) evey 14 days (or less in some areas). You cannot move from point 'A' to point 'B' and then 14 days later move back to Point 'A' again. You need to go A to B to C to D to E and so on.

 

You have to do this all year, Summer or Winter, Sun, Rain, Fog or Snow. You cannot just 'park' the boat where you want and then use it for the weekend or holiday and then park it again.

 

The London area has the most C&RT enforcement officers in the UK because people try and do what you are wanting to do.They will move you on, if you do not move, then they can revoke your licence and eventually sieze your boat.

[Tanmim H]

2 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Hi Tanmim. Do you mean the boat is NOT for cc'ing as a liveaboard? If you have a home and use the boat for leisure purposes, which is what we do, perhaps that takes a bit of pressure off? Speaking personally I think doing work on your boat is simpler when you are not having to live on it. And by "permanent mooring" I guess you mean a residential mooring? I've heard these are incredibly rare in London but perhaps non-residential, ie leisure, moorings are easier to come by? Our boat is on a leisure moorings at a marina in the East Midlands and it's super easy to work on as we have mains and water on tap as well as a carpark for transporting tools and materials. That said you still obviously want the best boat possible for your budget and I sincerely hope you find it as boating is wonderful!

Yes not for liveaboard it's for leisure purpose.

I am not looking for residential mooring.

It will be for continue crusing.

Thank you for sharing your experience. 

[enigmatic]

A good surveyor of your choice should be able to solve your problems with the rust, either by saying that it's really not as bad as people think it is from one photo, or getting the vendor to fix it (or helping you get your deposit back if there's loads of other stuff wrong with it, but my bet is on one of the first two ?)

 

You might find continuous cruising whilst living in a house very difficult for reasons stated above, especially in London

If you are using it for holidays you can get a leisure mooring somewhere inexpensive and nicer to cruise around than London anyway.

Edited April 5, 2021 by enigmatic

[MrsM]

1 minute ago, Tanmim H said:

Yes not for liveaboard it's for leisure purpose.

I am not looking for residential mooring.

It will be for continue crusing.

Thank you for sharing your experience. 

In that case your big issue will be the need to move the boat regularly as Alan explained above. I don't know any non-liveaboard cc'rs but I expect this will be very tricky and time-consuming. Perhaps someone who is managing this will contribute? 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MrsM said:

In that case your big issue will be the need to move the boat regularly as Alan explained above. I don't know any non-liveaboard cc'rs but I expect this will be very tricky and time-consuming. Perhaps someone who is managing this will contribute? 

 

 

Maybe another issue is leaving an empty boat tied up for 'weeks on end' in London.

Will it be there when you go back to it ?

Will it have been broken into and 'stripped' ?

Will it still have batteries and diesel ?

[MrsM]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Maybe another issue is leaving an empty boat tied up for 'weeks on end' in London.

Will it be there when you go back to it ?

Will it have been broken into and 'stripped' ?

Will it still have batteries and diesel ?

Absolutely! ?

[Murflynn]

9 hours ago, MrsM said:

Hi Tanmim. Do you mean the boat is NOT for cc'ing as a liveaboard? If you have a home and use the boat for leisure purposes, which is what we do, perhaps that takes a bit of pressure off? Speaking personally I think doing work on your boat is simpler when you are not having to live on it. And by "permanent mooring" I guess you mean a residential mooring? I've heard these are incredibly rare in London but perhaps non-residential, ie leisure, moorings are easier to come by? Our boat is on a leisure moorings at a marina in the East Midlands and it's super easy to work on as we have mains and water on tap as well as a carpark for transporting tools and materials. That said you still obviously want the best boat possible for your budget and I sincerely hope you find it as boating is wonderful!

 

Tanmim has not mentioned a residential mooring.

 

She may not be aware that a permanent mooring is a different kettle of fish.  If the boat is only for truly leisure use then a mooring further out into the countryside, not necessarily on the River Lea, may be more easily found.  If I was in her shoes I would be looking for a marina mooring where someone will keep an eye on the boat and raise the alarm if anything bad happens, and will provide much better security from vandals, thieves and general scumbags (but at a price).  Certainly the concept of continuously cruising should be a last resort.

 

How many kids will be on the boat?  If it is just for 'olidays and the kids don't mind squeezing into bunks, etc. then a shorter boat in good condition may be cheaper to buy, maintain, licence and moor.  The brochure plan drawing shows just one double berth which suggests it has been fitted out as a live-aboard which is not the best arrangement for holidays with kids.  If the kids want to be out in the (hopefully) sunshine then a cruiser stern boat or one with a long forward well-deck is a huge asset for 'olidaying.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Murflynn

[MrsM]

37 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

 

Tanmim has not mentioned a residential mooring.

No, she mentioned "permanent mooring" which she said she would not get and was impossible. I wasn't sure what she meant by a "permanent mooring". Would this be something like an end of garden mooring? I think your advice above is absolutely spot on and very helpful for leisure boaters.

[Bee]

Back to the original question. That rust around the chimney collar is horrible. Thing is that it is not too difficult to fix. Last year I removed the stove, chimney, and collar from Bee, I put in a sort of Taylors paraffin stove with a 30mm stove pipe. That left a great big hole in the roof. Got a 12" square steel plate, drilled and tapped it to the roof, fixed it with countersunk stainless  machine screws, tidied it up with a bit of filler  and a bit of thin rubber gasket, bunged some paint on it, looks absolutely fine. I'm not saying Tanmin needs to start buying a shed full of tools, I'd do the job for her if I lived anywhere near but on here we do seem to see the worst case scenario in everything.  If owning a boat was as desperate as it sounds nobody would ever bother.

[Tanmim H]

5 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

 

Tanmim has not mentioned a residential mooring.

 

She may not be aware that a permanent mooring is a different kettle of fish.  If the boat is only for truly leisure use then a mooring further out into the countryside, not necessarily on the River Lea, may be more easily found.  If I was in her shoes I would be looking for a marina mooring where someone will keep an eye on the boat and raise the alarm if anything bad happens, and will provide much better security from vandals, thieves and general scumbags (but at a price).  Certainly the concept of continuously cruising should be a last resort.

 

How many kids will be on the boat?  If it is just for 'olidays and the kids don't mind squeezing into bunks, etc. then a shorter boat in good condition may be cheaper to buy, maintain, licence and moor.  The brochure plan drawing shows just one double berth which suggests it has been fitted out as a live-aboard which is not the best arrangement for holidays with kids.  If the kids want to be out in the (hopefully) sunshine then a cruiser stern boat or one with a long forward well-deck is a huge asset for 'olidaying.

I am thinking of looking for a place to moor in a Marin outside London for a while.

My son 8 so one child.

 

[Tanmim H]

27 minutes ago, Bee said:

Back to the original question. That rust around the chimney collar is horrible. Thing is that it is not too difficult to fix. Last year I removed the stove, chimney, and collar from Bee, I put in a sort of Taylors paraffin stove with a 30mm stove pipe. That left a great big hole in the roof. Got a 12" square steel plate, drilled and tapped it to the roof, fixed it with countersunk stainless  machine screws, tidied it up with a bit of filler  and a bit of thin rubber gasket, bunged some paint on it, looks absolutely fine. I'm not saying Tanmin needs to start buying a shed full of tools, I'd do the job for her if I lived anywhere near but on here we do seem to see the worst case scenario in everything.  If owning a boat was as desperate as it sounds nobody would ever bother.

I will be in Northampton for a while .

So if you are around I will appreciate your help. I can hire tools also right.

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

I am thinking of looking for a place to moor in a Marin outside London for a while.

 

 

 

 

That sounds a good solution and will 'keep you on the right side of the law'.

[LadyG]

14 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

One question that has not been mentioned, who owns the boat?

There is good reason to ask this question, as if it is owned in the course of a business, eg by Whilton or Venetian Marina, then it has to be 'fit for purpose' , this means not only must it be up to Boat Safety standards, or at least have a current (small can of worms) Certificate, but it must also be fit for purpose. A legal term, Consumer Rights /Trading Standards. 

If I were you I'd send an email reminding them of your essential requirements, ie purpose. You must ask if the boat owned by a business. Do not let them have any wriggle room, be polite but be firm. 

Demand, politely, proof of ownership, eg Bill of Sale, from commission to current owner. Recent bills  eg mooring fees, licence certificate, these should be readily available. It's your money, you have strong position. 

The next step is, the survey, then your Bill of Sale, I used the RYA copy. 

PS remember, if the roof is the only problem and everything else is fine, then don't worry too much. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. 

PPS my main negativity is the size of the boat, first boat, casual use,  inexperienced boater and small child. I live aboard, and mine is 57ft, but I'd prefer it to be shorter, easier to drive, cheaper to paint, cheaper licence, cheaper mooring fee. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by LadyG
PPS

[MrsM]

1 hour ago, Tanmim H said:

I am thinking of looking for a place to moor in a Marin outside London for a while.

My son 8 so one child.

 

I'm sure your son will love it - what amazing adventures you will have together! Although more pricey than cc'ing I think the peace of mind and knowing that your boat will be safe when you are at home that a marina mooring will give you will be well worth it.