Thames - Water Points. Changes to drinking and bulk water supply points.

[Alway Swilby]

17 hours ago, LadyG said:

I am aware of that. How is it not possible to test water.

You have mis-understood my post. I was refering to the bit I highlighted in red i.e. "the best supply has a short run from the mains, with no tanks. " It is that that is not now possible. I'm sure they could test the water if they wanted to.

[LadyG]

7 hours ago, pearley said:

The EA on the Great Ouse seem to test the water as they closed 2 water points at the height of this summer due to contamination.

 

[LadyG]

8 hours ago, pearley said:

The EA on the Great Ouse seem to test the water as they closed 2 water points at the height of this summer due to contamination.

It is quite possible that the supply was condemned at an earlier stage in the supply, one can never be sure of anything, which is why I drink bottled water. 

The stuff that ends up in your tank may have passed through random pipes, it's not as certain to be good clean water as one would expect from a water treatment plant 

PS in an earlier life I did test private water supplies, this included inspection. One spring ( ie the source), was up a steep fell, I had to don climbing boots, though I was given the option of holding the tail of a Fell pony which would pull me up!

Edited October 11, 2022 by LadyG

[David Mack]

11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The stuff that ends up in your tank may have passed through random pipes, it's not as certain to be good clean water as one would expect from a water treatment plant 

Aren't the vast majority of canal and riverside water points supplied with the local mains water? Meaning the quality should be the same as local households receive, and subject to the same standards, regardless of which water treatment plant it comes from or which random pipes it passes through.

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Aren't the majority of canal and riverside water points supplied with the local mains water? Meaning the quality should be the same as locawnded l households receive, and subject to the same standards, regardless of which water treatment plant it comes from or which random pipes it passes through.

 

I don't know.

What should be and what is fact are two different matters. Not so long ago lead pipes were the standard in the inner city of Glasgow supplying the slums of the East End, even though it was known to be dangerous to health.

I don't know about supplies from the big companies, but there will be an endpoint of responsibility, at which point the consumer accepts responsibility. So for example, the Thames water company ((whatever it is called)cannot be responsible for water coming out of marina hosepipes. 

 

 

[David Mack]

The water company is respondible for the pipes up to the edge of private property, and the property owner thereafter. The vast majority of water points have been installed long after lead piping ceased be used, so should (!) have been installed to fairly recent standards.

[LadyG]

20 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The water company,  is respondible for the pipes up to the edge of private property, and the property owner thereafter. The vast majority of water points have been installed long after lead piping ceased be used, so should (!) have been installed to fairly recent standards.

You failed to read my opening sentence.

The supply to houses is quite clear. Supply to some random water tap is not clear. If you wish to accept that it is clean, so be it.

I consider it to be moderate risk, and I dont want to get the squits on a boat due to drinking contaminated water 

Edited October 11, 2022 by LadyG

[Ex Brummie]

When I complained to theE.A. about the Thames taps, They denied any responsibility for the situation as it is the responsibility of Thames Water to maintain quality and these modifications were at their insistence. 

Not all CaRT supplies come from Company supplies. a few years back, the water point at the top of Tyrley was closed because of phosphate content from farmland leaching into a spring/well supply.

[Ronaldo47]

My understsnding is that lead pipes   are normally  quite safe in hard water areas. 

 

" [Lead piping] should not however  be used to convey water that is plumbo-solvent, owing to the risk of contamination. Waters that are liable to cause trouble with lead pipes are those of a very soft and acid nature and hard waters high in free carbon dioxide and chloride content, particularly where the hardness is permanent and nor due to carbonates. "

("Domestic Sanitation", Goodin & Downing, Estates Gazette, 1959, p.110)

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

The supply to houses is quite clear. Supply to some random water tap is not clear. If you wish to accept that it is clean, so be it.

Suppy to CRT or EA water taps is exactly the same as a supply to houses or business premises (unless it is taken from a private spring or borehole). CRT and EA are simply customers of the local water supply company, and will be on a business tariff.  And as they are in turn supplying the water to boats knowing it will be used for domestic purposes, they are under the same legal obligations as the water companies to provide wholesome water. They are also obliged to comply with those water regulations which protect the supply from contamination. EA's interpretation of this duty requires them to provide an air break, hence their new supply arrangements. CRT seem to have no problem with simply fitting double check valves to protect the supply.

[IanD]

10 hours ago, David Mack said:

Suppy to CRT or EA water taps is exactly the same as a supply to houses or business premises (unless it is taken from a private spring or borehole). CRT and EA are simply customers of the local water supply company, and will be on a business tariff.  And as they are in turn supplying the water to boats knowing it will be used for domestic purposes, they are under the same legal obligations as the water companies to provide wholesome water. They are also obliged to comply with those water regulations which protect the supply from contamination. EA's interpretation of this duty requires them to provide an air break, hence their new supply arrangements. CRT seem to have no problem with simply fitting double check valves to protect the supply.

 

Which seems a strange interpretation; I don't see any real difference between CART/EA water points (and what might be connected to them) and any garden hose tap in a home, the risk (or not) of contamination is exactly the same. In fact it's less if check valves are fitted like CART do...

[Chewbacka]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Which seems a strange interpretation; I don't see any real difference between CART/EA water points (and what might be connected to them) and any garden hose tap in a home, the risk (or not) of contamination is exactly the same. In fact it's less if check valves are fitted like CART do...

The main difference is who does the risk assessment………….

[IanD]

58 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

The main difference is who does the risk assessment………….

So let's get this right -- the water companies who supply the water are quite happy for consumers to have a tap in their garden with zero extra precautions to prevent contamination of their supply when connected to a hose, but if they supply the water to CART they (CART) add on double check valves, and if they supply it to EA they (EA) add on these ludicrously complex and expensive air break devices?

 

I'd love to know what kind of risk assessment means you need to take precautions more stringent than the tens of millions of households connected to the same water supply...

Edited October 12, 2022 by IanD

[jonathanA]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

So let's get this right -- the water companies who supply the water are quite happy for consumers to have a tap in their garden with zero extra precautions to prevent contamination of their supply when connected to a hose, but if they supply the water to CART they (CART) add on double check valves, and if they supply it to EA they (EA) add on these ludicrously complex and expensive air break devices?

 

I'd love to know what kind of risk assessment means you need to take precautions more stringent than the tens of millions of households connected to the same water supply...

Actually they arent - any "garden tap" is supposed to be of the double check valve type. Which of course we all have don't we on ours.....

 

Here's what WRAS say

Taps

Section Code 1780 : Hose union, metal. a. All cold water fittings located outside the thermal envelope, or those outside the building should be protected against damage by freezing. b. A servicing valve shall be fitted to the supply pipe to this fitting and shall be located within the thermal envelope of the building. Where in existing house installations a hosepipe is to be used from an existing hose union tap located outside a house and which is not provided with backflow protection, either: a. The existing hose union tap should be provided with a double check valve (Type EC or ED) located inside the building; or b. The tap should be replaced with a hose union tap that incorporates a double check valve (type HUK1); or c. A hose union backflow prevention (Type HA) or a double check valve should be continuously fitted to the outlet of the tap; or d. Is legally installed in any premises.

Back To Directory Sections

 

But I agree with your point if that's OK for millions of households then crt probably have it right and EA don't seem to have.  

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Actually they arent - any "garden tap" is supposed to be of the double check valve type. Which of course we all have don't we on ours.....

 

Here's what WRAS say

Taps

Section Code 1780 : Hose union, metal. a. All cold water fittings located outside the thermal envelope, or those outside the building should be protected against damage by freezing. b. A servicing valve shall be fitted to the supply pipe to this fitting and shall be located within the thermal envelope of the building. Where in existing house installations a hosepipe is to be used from an existing hose union tap located outside a house and which is not provided with backflow protection, either: a. The existing hose union tap should be provided with a double check valve (Type EC or ED) located inside the building; or b. The tap should be replaced with a hose union tap that incorporates a double check valve (type HUK1); or c. A hose union backflow prevention (Type HA) or a double check valve should be continuously fitted to the outlet of the tap; or d. Is legally installed in any premises.

Back To Directory Sections

 

But I agree with your point if that's OK for millions of households then crt probably have it right and EA don't seem to have.  

 

Nope... 😉

[jonathanA]

Me neither, they are at least 50p more expensive and I don't have them lying around in a box of old taps 

[David Mack]

I seem to recall that having a double check valve on a garden tap is a relatively recent requirement, so probably lots of houses have outside taps which are not so fitted. And of course DIYers don't always follow the rules.

Edited October 12, 2022 by David Mack

[LadyG]

16 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

My understsnding is that lead pipes   are normally  quite safe in hard water areas. 

 

" [Lead piping] should not however  be used to convey water that is plumbo-solvent, owing to the risk of contamination. Waters that are liable to cause trouble with lead pipes are those of a very soft and acid nature and hard waters high in free carbon dioxide and chloride content, particularly where the hardness is permanent and nor due to carbonates. "

("Domestic Sanitation", Goodin & Downing, Estates Gazette, 1959, p.110)

Just so, when this report was published, 1959, the use of lead pipes in domestic plumbing was widespread. The supply of water to Glasgow was from Loch Katrine was acid and soft at the point of use. I am not suggesting there will be lead pipes in any supplies these days, I am just saying that one cannot be absolutely sure that all taps on the cut are providing clean and pure water. There is also some dubiety about using garden hose to transfer water from tap to tank, but plenty of boaters use it instead of the the more expensive hose.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by LadyG

[IanD]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

I seem to recall that having a double check valve on a garden tap is a relatively recent requirement, so probably lots of houses have outside taps which are not so fitted. And of course DIYers don't always follow the rules.

 

My outside taps are more than 20 years old so certainly don't have them...

[jonathanA]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

I seem to recall that having a double check valve on a garden tap is a relatively recent requirement, so probably lots of houses have outside taps which are not so fitted. And of course DIYers don't always follow the rules.

Define 'relatively recent' I think its 20+ years thing. Let's say a 21st century requirement 😆  and i would think widely ignored.....

 

I mean almost everyweek there is a major pollution problem from someone's garden hose sucking up some dog pooh and contaminating thousands  of people.... ( as Tracy would say this is meant as humorous and not intended to cause offence)

[Chewbacka]

36 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

My outside taps are more than 20 years old so certainly don't have them...

My house is about 30 years old and there was a single check valve in the supply to the outside tap, maybe you have one as well somewhere in the feed to the tap 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Chewbacka said:

My house is about 30 years old and there was a single check valve in the supply to the outside tap, maybe you have one as well somewhere in the feed to the tap 

Definitely not. Could have been installed by the previous owner who was a bit of a DIY bodger... 😉

Edited October 12, 2022 by IanD

[Chewbacka]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

Definitely not. Could have been installed by the previous owner who was a bit of a DIY bodger... 😉

Even some competent (from a skills viewpoint) DIY’s don’t know about regulation changes, so it doesn’t surprise me that check valves are omitted.

[ditchcrawler]

On 11/10/2022 at 09:11, pearley said:

The EA on the Great Ouse seem to test the water as they closed 2 water points at the height of this summer due to contamination.

As do the Broads Authority, but how many houses test the water?

 

On 11/10/2022 at 19:57, LadyG said:

You failed to read my opening sentence.

The supply to houses is quite clear. Supply to some random water tap is not clear. If you wish to accept that it is clean, so be it.

I consider it to be moderate risk, and I dont want to get the squits on a boat due to drinking contaminated water 

So do you think the water to the CRT taps is pumped out of the canal or where do you think it comes from?

[jonathanA]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

As do the Broads Authority, but how many houses test the water?

Well I've had United utilities knock on my door on a number of occasions and ask to take a water sample for testing. They always want it from the kitchen tap for some reason.

 

 

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

So do you think the water to the CRT taps is pumped out of the canal or where do you think it comes from?

 

On more than occasion from the nearest private dwelling..... without the current owners knowledge.