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C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.


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Just now, Bargebuilder said:

Such a reply simply shows that the author has no first hand experience of any sort of separating/composting toilet. I say that, because the biggest advantage of either system is the infrequency of emptying, so why would one frequently empty fresh toilet waste when it is much easier to only do so every couple of months, giving it plenty of time to reduce its volume and weight by evaporation and maybe a little composting as well.

well as users have admitted on social media that’s what they do….and why CRT’s bin contractors will no longer accept it I suggest it’s you who isn’t aware of how they are being used in reality. 

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I wouldn't argue that perhaps even most composted/dessicated toilet waste is binned, because for years that was the instruction, but why go to the effort of emptying fresh waste frequently when it's only necessary to do so every couple of months, by which time it's largely dried out and a fraction of the fresh volume and weight?

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, haggis said:

A process which can take up to a year, I gather. . 

 

A program on TV a few weeks ago suggested that the 'composting' takes up to 3 years and needs regularly 'turning'.

First it goes onto one heap, regularly turned and in the 2nd year moves to a second heap, turned and added to a third heap where is is left for 12 months to properly compost

 

It needs air to dessicate and compost so all of the buckets the boater must keep under their bed must not have lids on, they will need suffcient storage buckets for 3 years worth of drying faeces, regularly tipped out, stirred, and re stored.

 

Putting semi-solid faeces in a bag then into a bin is not composting.

 

If you have the facilities (land) to have 3-muck heaps, then good luck to you and hoping your tomatoes and melon crops are fruitfull.

 

Going back 45+ years when I was doing my ONC & HNC electrical engineering we visited a sewage works to see how they  generated electricity and fed it back into the grid (it was novel in those days). On arrival at the Sewage works gates we saw a sign with Tomatoes and Honeydew melons for sale.

 

As the tour progressed we were told that Tomato and Melon seeds pass straight thru the human body and into the sewage. The Sewage works spread the solids (semi solids) onto the locak fields to produce sewage-cake which was collected up and sold as fertilizer to the Farmers. It was from these 'cake' covered fields that the Tomatoes and Melons grew, were harvested and sold at 'the farm gate' to passers by.

 

Sewage (or night soil) has been a valuable commodity for 100s of years, and coming back to canals ..................................

 

 

Newspaper adverts from 1859

 

 

 

 

Night Soil For Sale.jpg

 

 

 

Oxford's Night Soil Man

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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3 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I wouldn't argue that perhaps even most composted/dessicated toilet waste is binned, because for years that was the instruction, but why go to the effort of emptying fresh waste frequently when it's only necessary to do so every couple of months, by which time it's largely dried out and a fraction of the fresh volume and weight?

From what I’ve seen with livaboard couples with composting toilets they empty the solids weekly and don’t give it time to breakdown/compost. I don’t know if this is to do with the size/volume of the chamber being too small and also not having or wanting the facility to hold the compost onboard.  They do say they use a lot of sawdust/coya and at least double bag it, but unfortunately it still gets binned.

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27 minutes ago, haggis said:

I don't think you are aware of what happens to "stuff" pumped out of boats toilets when you talk about slurry tanks and polluting tankers.

In the UK there is a sewage system which directly takes toilet waste  in big pipes to sewage works where it is dealt with by going through many processes which treat the sewage and reuse (or direct to places where it can be reused) all the various components.  

Why should boaters not buy their own small bins for dessicated human waste? Although they would need a lot of them  to keep the waste till it was dessicated. A process which can take up to a year, I gather. . 

 

Mine is on a compost heap for 3 years along with veg matter, at the end its great vegetable food.

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33 minutes ago, haggis said:

I don't think you are aware of what happens to "stuff" pumped out of boats toilets when you talk about slurry tanks and polluting tankers.

In the UK there is a sewage system which directly takes toilet waste  in big pipes to sewage works

 

Nearly half of CRT pumpouts or elsans go into septic tanks, not into main sewers.  Tankers have to empty these out and take the contents to a sewage processing facility.

 

A frightening percentage of sewage from main sewers has just been dumped into rivers in recent years, hence the current flurry of court cases and fines for the water companies.

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We've sold our barge now, but our 20 litre container only needed swapping for an empty one every couple of months, but I suspect that the proprietary 'composting' toilets have much smaller receptacles.

 

It does seem a shame that having praised the use of composting loos just a few years ago and encouraged their users to deposit their contents double bagged into their bins, the CRT have changed their minds. I can see why, but it is tough on those who have invested in new equipment and remodelled their heads believing it was with the blessing of the CRT.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

the CRT have changed their minds.

 

I believe (as said earlier in this thread) that it is not that C&RT have changed their minds but that their bin collection contractor does not allow the bins to be used for human faeces.

The Waste regulation allow for up to 7kg of that type of waste if put in a 'zebra striped' bag so it can be sorted / removed. C&RT have no way of knowing how much is going to be put in the bins (one person may put in 7kg, but the next 2, 3, 4 etc people will also put in their 7kgs) It cannot be monitored or controlled so it cannot be allowed.

 

Biffa told BWML this many years ago and the information was sent out to all moorers and anyone with a composting toilet was not allowed into the BWML marinas,

 

Brown Waste

It is illegal to discharge any sewage into the marina and all sea toilet seacocks should be closed when berthed in a BWML marina to ensure there is no accidental discharge. Consider a holding tank if using a sea-going craft for residential purposes, rather than face the possible prosecution by the Environment Agency. Elsan disposal points are available for portable toilets systems, and do not empty cassettes into the marina or toilets. Even if you have a pump out fitted, it is worth considering a ‘cassette’ style toilet for the winter months as marinas do freeze over. Currently, composting toilets are not permitted in BWML marinas under the current waste transfer laws.

 

 

 

 

We have a very similar 'general waste' contract with Biffa and there is a very strictly enforced list of what we can, and cannot put in the bins.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Then the CRT are guilty of encouraging people to avail themselves of the services of another company without checking that the other company was happy with the arrangement first.

 

The CRT are without doubt at least partly responsible for the increase in the proportion of separating loos on the cut.

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1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

Such a reply simply shows that the author has no first hand experience of any sort of separating/composting toilet. I say that, because the biggest advantage of either system is the infrequency of emptying, so why would one frequently empty fresh toilet waste when it is much easier to only do so every couple of months, giving it plenty of time to reduce its volume and weight by evaporation and maybe a little composting as well.

Its not the experience of the toilets, I think most of us know how they function and what comes out of them, its the experience of lots of owners who just want to dump it in waste bins or flush it down an Elsan disposal point.

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3 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Then the CRT are guilty of encouraging people to avail themselves of the services of another company without checking that the other company was happy with the arrangement first.

 

The CRT are without doubt at least partly responsible for the increase in the proportion of separating loos on the cut.

 

We all know that C&RT are incompetent - especially when you think that BWML (a subsidiary of C&RT) were told several years earlier that it was illegal and against 'Waste Transfer Regulations', you would have expected that C&RT would have thought - "O.... lets have a look what it says in our bin contract", but, no they have to wait to be told by their contractor to stop it, and then give composting toilet owners just 'days' notice that the practice must stop.

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3 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Then the CRT are guilty of encouraging people to avail themselves of the services of another company without checking that the other company was happy with the arrangement first.

 

The CRT are without doubt at least partly responsible for the increase in the proportion of separating loos on the cut.

Whilst I'm no lover of C&RT I don't think you can lay blame at their door for this one. I think Biffa allow a small amount of such waste in bins and I wonder if its more likely that C&RT just didn't understand the situation or expect the volume to rise to the point where Biffa would complain. 

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1 minute ago, Midnight said:

Whilst I'm no lover of C&RT I don't think you can lay blame at their door for this one. I think Biffa allow a small amount of such waste in bins and I wonder if its more likely that C&RT just didn't understand the situation or expect the volume to rise to the point where Biffa would complain. 

I'm sure that's true, but for the sake of a bit of forward thinking and a chat with Biffa, they could have suppressed the huge rise in popularity of composting loos and saved their boat owning customers much inconvenience and wasted money.

 

My concern is, that having been encouraged to go down the composting route by the CRT, some will ignore the new ban on depositing toilet waste in Biffa bins next year when it comes into force.

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6 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I'm sure that's true, but for the sake of a bit of forward thinking and a chat with Biffa, they could have suppressed the huge rise in popularity of composting loos and saved their boat owning customers much inconvenience and wasted money.

 

My concern is, that having been encouraged to go down the composting route by the CRT, some will ignore the new ban on depositing toilet waste in Biffa bins next year when it comes into force.

How many is a huge rise?

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1 minute ago, Midnight said:

How many is a huge rise?

It's impossible to know, but given the thousands of followers of YouTube vlogs such as from Foxes Afloat that absolutely rave about the benefits of composting toilets, I'll bet the rise is considerable. Certainly the manufacturer of their rather smart version has gone from producing a single toilet for personal use to a production facility and a waiting list.

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47 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

It's impossible to know, but given the thousands of followers of YouTube vlogs such as from Foxes Afloat that absolutely rave about the benefits of composting toilets, I'll bet the rise is considerable. Certainly the manufacturer of their rather smart version has gone from producing a single toilet for personal use to a production facility and a waiting list.

Looking at their Vlog on the first time they emptied their cassette toilet sums up a lot of the type of Newbies your getting on boats, they can’t handle emptying a cassette type toilet and find it easier to deal with a bag of sawdust and solids mix, that they can just seal it, put into another bag and into a bin. They have no interest in composting and the time involved, they just can’t handle seeing and smelling their own crap. 

Edited by PD1964
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56 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

It's impossible to know, but given the thousands of followers of YouTube vlogs such as from Foxes Afloat that absolutely rave about the benefits of composting toilets, I'll bet the rise is considerable. Certainly the manufacturer of their rather smart version has gone from producing a single toilet for personal use to a production facility and a waiting list.

 

Their vlogs are amongst the best and I really enjoy their you tube contributions. I have followed them on you tube since around March 2020.

 

They did a couple of videos about switching to a composting loo a while ago.

 

But since then nothing. I strongly suspect there is a reason for that.

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I see your point, it is certainly much easier, more pleasant, odour free and a huge amount lighter to put ones 'dry' toilet waste into a bin than lugging a heavy, foul smelling cassette of sloppy toilet waste to an Elsan point.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "type of newbies", but your doing a great job of promoting composters over cassettes.

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1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Their vlogs are amongst the best and I really enjoy their you tube contributions. I have followed them on you tube since around March 2020.

 

They did a couple of videos about switching to a composting loo a while ago.

 

But since then nothing. I strongly suspect there is a reason for that.

I couldn't agree more, their vlogs are interesting and their presentation engaging and the video quality superb.

 

I don't follow them, but I will watch any vlog of theirs that is of particular interest, especially if they've cruised an area that I intend to visit.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would refer to them in a derogatory way.

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1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

I see your point, it is certainly much easier, more pleasant, odour free and a huge amount lighter to put ones 'dry' toilet waste into a bin than lugging a heavy, foul smelling cassette of sloppy toilet waste to an Elsan point.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "type of newbies", but your doing a great job of promoting composters over cassettes.

I mean the type that can’t handle the smell of their own solid waste or go all faint at the sight of it, I don’t understand it as it’s theirs and nobody else’s. What did they expect when they bought a boat, that their s£&t smells of roses and flushes straight into the canal never to be seen again?

Modern Cassettes don’t leak and slop all over, the new Thetford wheeled version is very good at sealing and is easy to handle. The secret is to have at least two cassettes and empty them when you can and don’t let them fill right up. As I said the composting toilet is an easy solution to not see, handle or smell their own waste and with more bins there’s more opportunities to dump it, most compost toilet users have no interest in composting their waste as it should be done.

Edited by PD1964
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7 hours ago, PD1964 said:

I mean the type that can’t handle the smell of their own solid waste or go all faint at the sight of it, I don’t understand it as it’s theirs and nobody else’s. What did they expect when they bought a boat, that their s£&t smells of roses and flushes straight into the canal never to be seen again?

Modern Cassettes don’t leak and slop all over, the new Thetford wheeled version is very good at sealing and is easy to handle. The secret is to have at least two cassettes and empty them when you can and don’t let them fill right up. As I said the composting toilet is an easy solution to not see, handle or smell their own waste and with more bins there’s more opportunities to dump it, most compost toilet users have no interest in composting their waste as it should be done.

 

I suggest that most continuous cruisers who use "compost" (dry) toilets don't have the on-board facility to compost their waste; so bag it and chuck it or dispose of it in a hedgerow is their only option.

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10 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Nearly half of CRT pumpouts or elsans go into septic tanks, not into main sewers.  Tankers have to empty these out and take the contents to a sewage processing facility.

 

 

Oh, I didn't know that the figure was as high as that. I had thought that when a pumpout or elsan was built near a built up area (as many of them are) they would be connected to the main sewer system. 

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27 minutes ago, haggis said:

Oh, I didn't know that the figure was as high as that. I had thought that when a pumpout or elsan was built near a built up area (as many of them are) they would be connected to the main sewer system. 

Whilst I also suspect the majority are on main sewers it's not always the case. At Welford the toilets are on main sewer but the next door elsan is connected to a large tank with a red warning light when it's nearly full. When I asked the C&RT fella he couldn't understand the reason either. 

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4 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Whilst I also suspect the majority are on main sewers it's not always the case. At Welford the toilets are on main sewer but the next door elsan is connected to a large tank with a red warning light when it's nearly full. When I asked the C&RT fella he couldn't understand the reason either. 

Standard CRT operation procedure. No joined up thinking, no joined up plumbing 🤣

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