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Looking to install 5 litre plastic fuel tank from China for gravity fed engine system ( Diesel) Problem is it’s not CE approved. I understand BSS requirements under 27 litres are a bit more flexible. Any problems with me installing that? I would use a bigger tank but I’m not keen on having a 12 volt pump connected and also I like the extra storage space. 

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45 minutes ago, MrBoater2021 said:

Looking to install 5 litre plastic fuel tank from China for gravity fed engine system ( Diesel) Problem is it’s not CE approved. I understand BSS requirements under 27 litres are a bit more flexible. Any problems with me installing that? I would use a bigger tank but I’m not keen on having a 12 volt pump connected and also I like the extra storage space. 

Presumably this is not a steel narrowboat ?

Is it a GRP Cruiser ?

 

A 5 litre tank is only the size (obviously) of a 5 litre 'portable petrol can' TINY !!  are you planning on this being a permanent installation ?

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No for narrowboat. I’ve been using a Jerry can for about a year and have enough suitable storage for around 20 litres of diesel. I only move about 4 miles a time and have a vehicle to refill my 20 litre can. I don’t need a big tank but I’ve a large 30 litre tank at my shed. Permanent but I could remove when the next BSS comes up. 

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1 minute ago, MrBoater2021 said:

Permanent but I could remove when the next BSS comes up. 

That is I'm afraid, a rather poor attitude.

The BSS is to make sure that your boat is safe to moor next to, will not explode as someone walks past - it is nothing to do with making the boat safe for YOU.

 

What you are proposing means that you are invalidating your BSSC - if you make changes to your boat after the BSSC has been issued then it should be re-tested.

 

You are not going to make yourself popular - it like your mate lending you some wheels as yours are too worn to pass the MOT, get the MOT and then change the wheels back to the dangerous ones.

 

I hope you are never boating anywhere near me.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That is I'm afraid, a rather poor attitude.

The BSS is to make sure that your boat is safe to moor next to, will not explode as someone walks past - it is nothing to do with making the boat safe for YOU.

 

What you are proposing means that you are invalidating your BSSC - if you make changes to your boat after the BSSC has been issued then it should be re-tested.

 

You are not going to make yourself popular - it like your mate lending you some wheels as yours are too worn to pass the MOT, get the MOT and then change the wheels back to the dangerous ones.

 

I hope you are never boating anywhere near me.

 

 

Obviously a different attitude. Health and safety gown mad! 5 litres of diesel is going to do much damage. I don’t mess with gas! 

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

You mean you go 4 miles from your shed, then 14 days later you go 4 miles back, and repeat? As a CCer?

No I have metal box outside ( vented ect in accordance with BSS) where I store a few Jerry cans and I drive to a garage everything couple of months to refill. 

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I really would not go down this route. You would have to check but I think Vetus offered a plastic fuel tank that was supposed to be OK but if its Vetus it would have been expensive. CE marking is nothing to do with boat compliance.  If you want a header tank - which this sounds like it effectively is, then you need to get one made and plumbed in properly with a shut off valve, proper mounting brackets and no plastic pipes and stuff like that. Some rules and regs are pretty daft but some matter and you need to get this right and safe.

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5 minutes ago, Bee said:

I really would not go down this route. You would have to check but I think Vetus offered a plastic fuel tank that was supposed to be OK but if its Vetus it would have been expensive. CE marking is nothing to do with boat compliance.  If you want a header tank - which this sounds like it effectively is, then you need to get one made and plumbed in properly with a shut off valve, proper mounting brackets and no plastic pipes and stuff like that. Some rules and regs are pretty daft but some matter and you need to get this right and safe.

Ooh cheers mate good reply. I was just thinking about buying a Chinese 5 litre tank and adding vent ( 1/2 inch I think is the requirement), ISO hose and shut off valve. Quotes atm for 5 litre metal tank atm is about £150!!!🤨

Edited by MrBoater2021
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Don't have anything helpful to add about BSS, but I am so incredibly curious as to your situation...

 

You want to install a 5 litre plastic jerry can as the main fuel tank of your boat, because you only ever go 4 miles at a time?

 

How come the boat doesn't have a fuel tank? Is it an outboard motor?

 

If you are a CCer how do you maintain a close distance to your shed that you can return to it to refuel after every trip?

 

Sorry for the questions but I'm scratching my head here trying to work it out!

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1 hour ago, MrBoater2021 said:

Obviously a different attitude. Health and safety gown mad! 5 litres of diesel is going to do much damage. I don’t mess with gas!   

Its enough gets my bonfires going rather well. I don't think it would be a good idea to have a plastic tank gravity feeding your engine

1 hour ago, MrBoater2021 said:

Ooh cheers mate good reply. I was just thinking about buying a Chinese 5 litre tank and adding vent ( 1/2 inch I think is the requirement), ISO hose and shut off valve. Quotes atm for 5 litre metal tank atm is about £150!!!🤨

You should be able to get a stainless one made up for less than that, let alone a mild steel one.

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1 hour ago, MrBoater2021 said:

No for narrowboat. I’ve been using a Jerry can for about a year and have enough suitable storage for around 20 litres of diesel. I only move about 4 miles a time and have a vehicle to refill my 20 litre can. I don’t need a big tank but I’ve a large 30 litre tank at my shed. Permanent but I could remove when the next BSS comes up. 

 

I don't really understand why you are concerned about an item not being CE marked when on the other hand you're quite prepared to flout BSS requirements and hide the potentially unsafe plastic tank that you're using from the safety inspector. Seems like a bizarre contradiction to me. You either want the boat to be safe or you don't.

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6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I don't really understand why you are concerned about an item not being CE marked when on the other hand you're quite prepared to flout BSS requirements and hide the potentially unsafe plastic tank that you're using from the safety inspector. Seems like a bizarre contradiction to me. You either want the boat to be safe or you don't.

I couldn’t care less about the BSS requirements personally but  I’m mainly concerned about insurance so will comply with BSS requirements 😏. I was just trying to ask whether the plastic tank has to be CE approved. 

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4 minutes ago, MrBoater2021 said:

I couldn’t care less about the BSS requirements personally but  I’m mainly concerned about insurance so will comply with BSS requirements 😏.

 

Just checking that you know your BSS can be technically invalid if you make any changes after getting the certificate - like adding a dodgy fuel tank.  In the event of a claim, the insurance company will check your boat and anything that looks like it would fail a BSS could let them refuse to pay out.

 

Treating the BSS as a joke every 4 years might mean you aren't insured when you need to claim.

 

Not a rant, just making sure that you know this.

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Just now, TheBiscuits said:

 

Just checking that you know your BSS can be technically invalid if you make any changes after getting the certificate - like adding a dodgy fuel tank.  In the event of a claim, the insurance company will check your boat and anything that looks like it would fail a BSS could let them refuse to pay out.

 

Treating the BSS as a joke every 4 years might mean you aren't insured when you need to claim.

 

Not a rant, just making sure that you know this.

Thank you. Exactly that’s why I was asking  you guys on here for advice before installing a plastic one. 

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Right, so if it isn't CE approved and that's a requirement, you can just remove the tank when the inspector comes. I suppose not having a fuel tank at all can't be a BSS fail! 

BSS requirements are here: https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf 

 

You're likely to get a better and more conclusive answer from this document than anyone on the forum. I would note though that I have heard a number of folks say that BSS examiners are known to apply some of their own "interpretation" to these guidelines. I've only had one BSS exam, and I was asked to do a couple of things that weren't in the guidelines - I did them, because rather safe than sorry and it's easier than arguing with the examiner. 

 

I had a quick skim through the diesel fuel tank requirements, and I can't see anything disallowing plastic tanks. The fuel line"must be of a suitable material" though and I think that means metal. 

 

I'm always very impressed with how safe diesel fuel is in general though. I'd put 5 litres of diesel quite low on the list of things likely to kill you or your neighbours on a boat. Not advocating cheating a BSS of course. 

 

Is there an old tank that no longer in use? I have a 230 litre diesel tank on my narrowboat and I can't really picture how a 5 litre tank would work at all...

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2 minutes ago, MrBoater2021 said:

Thank you. Exactly that’s why I was asking  you guys on here for advice before installing a plastic one. 

 

Approved plastic tanks installed correctly are fine.  I have two of them at over 100 litres each, so a lot bigger than you are after.  

 

Why doesn't your boat have a proper fuel tank, and what engine has it got? 

 

Also, for the prices you are quoting for metal fuel tanks are you looking at stock car race spec car tanks?  That's over engineered for most boats.

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6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Approved plastic tanks installed correctly are fine.  I have two of them at over 100 litres each, so a lot bigger than you are after.  

My boat has 3 'plastic' tanks.

One at 1000 litres and two at 900 litres each.

 

Properly installed there are no problems.

Having a suspended 5 litre 'plastic can' syphoning (gravity fed) to the engine will not be acceptable. - how do you feed the surplus fuel back into the 'can' ?

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