Ashby Canal Breach

[magnetman]

Not really because the two you mention go somewhere. 

 

The K&A is a bit pointless but at least it does the job of joining the Thames and the Severn, which some people might view as a useful link. 

 

I think the Huddersfield narrow also is a link. 

 

Is the Ashby a link? I thought it was a dead end. Maybe it is a link. Can't remember. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The K&A is a bit pointless

But without it the K&A CMers would have nowhere to moor.

[magpie patrick]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Not really because the two you mention go somewhere. 

 

The K&A is a bit pointless but at least it does the job of joining the Thames and the Severn, which some people might view as a useful link. 

 

I think the Huddersfield narrow also is a link. 

 

Is the Ashby a link? I thought it was a dead end. Maybe it is a link. Can't remember. 

 

 

The main reason canals get restored is for the economic benefits along the route - no one does it so canal enthusiast can cruise round in  circles or even so they can get from A to B. 

 

Boaters spend money, people coming to see the boats spend money. lots of tea, cake and beer are consumed. 

There are nearly always other non-fiscal benefits, environment, health etc too, but restoration is a means to and end, not an end in itself
 

[StephenA]

4 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I thought it was the other side of the winding hole from Bridge 61, ie above 61A, the swing footbridge, towards Bridge 62. Also must be beyond the stop planks which I think are alongside the visitor centre/trust shed.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Snarestone,+Swadlincote/@52.6879677,-1.4880696,140m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48775609c80a4eff:0x954532254f4358cb!8m2!3d52.6808679!4d-1.492656

 

At that point, having check various maps I can still not see any watercourse, and the canal seems to be level with the adjacent field at that point, but I am happy for someone to tell me that it is elsewhere.

 

Ignore my empty reply

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by StephenA

[Flyboy]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Not really because the two you mention go somewhere. 

 

The K&A is a bit pointless but at least it does the job of joining the Thames and the Severn, which some people might view as a useful link. 

 

I think the Huddersfield narrow also is a link. 

 

Is the Ashby a link? I thought it was a dead end. Maybe it is a link. Can't remember. 

 

 

I think it was originally planned to to join up the T&M at Burton on Trent but they gave up at Moira because of mining subsidence and the railway competition.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Flyboy

[magnetman]

30 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

The main reason canals get restored is for the economic benefits along the route - no one does it so canal enthusiast can cruise round in  circles or even so they can get from A to B. 

 

Boaters spend money, people coming to see the boats spend money. lots of tea, cake and beer are consumed. 

There are nearly always other non-fiscal benefits, environment, health etc too, but restoration is a means to and end, not an end in itself
 

Making life better by water 

 

[Momac]

The shorter piles appear to be intentional  in order to allow a drain (or sewer) pipe to pass through below the bed of the canal.

I am surprised the gap around the pipe does not appear to have been sealed in some way other than with clay. A concrete plug with a puddle flange round the pipe and/ or hydrophilic seals might be expected . The concrete could be anchored  to the sheet piles using shear studs or the like .  None of that sort of engineering seems to have been attempted.

 

There is presumably the same detail on the other side of the canal.

[Athy]

18 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

The main reason canals get restored is for the economic benefits along the route - no one does it so canal enthusiast can cruise round in  circles or even so they can get from A to B. 

 

 

This seems a cynical point of view; were the volunteers who worked on re-opening the K&A motivated by financial concerns? Are the members of the societies working on the Cotswold canals or the Wilts & Berks (both of which I'm a member of) or the Coal Canal (of which I'm not a member but you most certainly are) driven by ambitions of lining their own pockets? I very much doubt it, in fact I'd say emphatically not. They want(ed) to reopen these canals for historical and recreational reasons.

[magpie patrick]

21 minutes ago, Athy said:

This seems a cynical point of view; ....

 

They want(ed) to reopen these canals for historical and recreational reasons.

If I may rephrase!

 

Those who campaign for restoration are most certainly driven by enthusiasm to reopen their own waterway. 

 

Those who pay millions for it have other motives, still basically altruistic as it's seldom the funders themselves who see the economic benefits, but their motives are generally social and economic. 

 

Both the enthusiast and the economist see the value of, say, restoring the Ashby canal to Measham. 

 

Magnet Man was asking why bother as it isn't a through route - that's not really a consideration for the funders so long as there are benefits for the area. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by magpie patrick

[Athy]

That makes far more sense!

 

Regarding our magnetic friend's comment, a route that's a "dead end" can have justv as much value and appeal as one which is joined to something at both ends. For years I was a member of the Vivarais Railway preservation society, an isolated 20-mile line. It used to join other bits of liner at both ends. It no longer does so, nor has it any prospect of so doing. It remains my favourite railway. At least boats can get to the Ashby from one end!

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, Athy said:

That makes far more sense!

 

Regarding our magnetic friend's comment, a route that's a "dead end" can have justv as much value and appeal as one which is joined to something at both ends. For years I was a member of the Vivarais Railway preservation society, an isolated 20-mile line. It used to join other bits of liner at both ends. It no longer does so, nor has it any prospect of so doing. It remains my favourite railway. At least boats can get to the Ashby from one end!

At least joined at one end is better than at neither end - as is currently the case with the restored lock and short stretch at the very top!

[Athy]

13 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

At least joined at one end is better than at neither end - as is currently the case with the restored lock and short stretch at the very top!

Yes, I heard that one landowner dug in (metaphorically speaking) and refused to sell his bit of the canal's line, thereby delaying the progress of the restoration. The county council backed the Ashby Canal people and served a compulsory purchase order on him. If I've got that wrong I'm sure someone will let me know.

[magpie patrick]

33 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes, I heard that one landowner dug in (metaphorically speaking) and refused to sell his bit of the canal's line, thereby delaying the progress of the restoration. The county council backed the Ashby Canal people and served a compulsory purchase order on him. If I've got that wrong I'm sure someone will let me know.

That's the gist of it - English Partnerships had awarded a grant, it was all a done deal and we would by now have been sailing to Measham and Moira, but one land owner dragged the purchase process on so long the grant contract expired and the money then spent elsewhere

[andy3196]

On 30/11/2020 at 13:06, Mike Todd said:

I thought it was the other side of the winding hole from Bridge 61, ie above 61A, the swing footbridge, towards Bridge 62. Also must be beyond the stop planks which I think are alongside the visitor centre/trust shed.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Snarestone,+Swadlincote/@52.6879677,-1.4880696,140m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48775609c80a4eff:0x954532254f4358cb!8m2!3d52.6808679!4d-1.492656

 

At that point, having check various maps I can still not see any watercourse, and the canal seems to be level with the adjacent field at that point, but I am happy for someone to tell me that it is elsewhere.

One of the photos at http://www.ashbycanal.org.uk/breach-of-the-ashby-canal-north-of-snarestone-wharf-on-sunday-29th-november-2020/ shows the ditch and the culvert 

[Mike Tee]

On 01/12/2020 at 17:02, magpie patrick said:

That's the gist of it - English Partnerships had awarded a grant, it was all a done deal and we would by now have been sailing to Measham and Moira, but one land owner dragged the purchase process on so long the grant contract expired and the money then spent elsewhere

Well it was his land after all!! Maybe they should have offered him a better deal.

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

Well it was his land after all!! Maybe they should have offered him a better deal.

I think he was after an exceptional deal. bit like the NT if they own the grass verge outside your house and you want to put a new drive in

[StephenA]

3 hours ago, andy3196 said:

One of the photos at http://www.ashbycanal.org.uk/breach-of-the-ashby-canal-north-of-snarestone-wharf-on-sunday-29th-november-2020/ shows the ditch and the culvert 

 

which is the one I pointed out - it links back to the ditch that takes the overflow near the change line bridge.

[Heartland]

The main reason canals get restored is for the economic benefits along the route - no one does it so canal enthusiast can cruise round in  circles or even so they can get from A to B. 

 

The creation of a new ring has a benefit. The restoration of the Droitwich Canals provided new cruising opportunities for boaters and new mooring opportunities also

 

Boaters spend money, people coming to see the boats spend money. lots of tea, cake and beer are consumed. 
 

In post Covid 19 hopefully this state of affairs will be continued.

There are nearly always other non-fiscal benefits, environment, health etc too, but restoration is a means to and end, not an end in itself

 

Walkers and cyclists benefit from improved waterways and the continuing restoration of waterways like the Montgomery provide the means of benefit, whether fiscal or not. Thos scheme, and others like the Lichfield & Hatherton, are a long term restoration with no end in sight at present. Then there are the people who look at disused canals and record what can be still seen. In this group are the Friends of the Leominster Canal who have no intention of restoration, yet.

 

Those who campaign for restoration are most certainly driven by enthusiasm to reopen their own waterway. 

 

Those that campaign for a restoration of a waterway are not necessarily confined to the locality. There are those who wish for a general improvement of the canal network

 

Those who pay millions for it have other motives, still basically altruistic as it's seldom the funders themselves who see the economic benefits, but their motives are generally social and economic. 

 

Those who contribute to waterway restoration fall into various categories and this statement is perhaps too narrow. All those who took part in restoration projects since the 1960s included the hands on restorers working at the canal and making it fit for navigation. Apart from the modern age "navvies", there are those who contribute small sums, and those who provide more substantial funds.

  

Both the enthusiast and the economist see the value of, say, restoring the Ashby canal to Measham. 

 

The Ashby Canal was a waterway that, like some others, which did not reach the intended terminus, but finished beyond Moira at Reservoir Colliery where there was the terminus basin (Ashby Woulds) where the plateways owned by the canal company also terminated. It was also made to barge width. So why restore to Measham only if those benefits exist and the later effects of opencast mining and subsidence can be overcome. Or are these factors enough to prevent economic restoration, I wonder.

 

[Ronaldo47]

A plus of the Ashby is that it allows you to make a week's cruise with minimal locking. I have been up it twice, once starting from Coventry over 30 years ago with my wife and my nine-month-old son, and once three years ago starting from Rugby when it was just my wife and myself.  It seemed a lot shallower three years ago than it was 30 years ago.  Progress was so slow that we never made it to the end and had great difficulty in winding at a marked winding hole. 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

13 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

A plus of the Ashby is that it allows you to make a week's cruise with minimal locking. I have been up it twice, once starting from Coventry over 30 years ago with my wife and my nine-month-old son, and once three years ago starting from Rugby when it was just my wife and myself.  It seemed a lot shallower three years ago than it was 30 years ago.  Progress was so slow that we never made it to the end and had great difficulty in winding at a marked winding hole. 

CRT is successor to statutory duties under the Transport Act 1968 to maintain certain of the waterways in its care (i.e. those classified as either commercial or cruising waterways in Schedule 12 of that Act) to specified statutory dimensions. These can only be changed with ministerial approval.

However, CRT has been quietly altering these statutory dimensions itself (i.e. without ministerial approval) whilst claiming that they have remained unchanged since it took over from BW (July 2012).

An example of this is the Ashby which under the Transport Act 1968 should be suitable for craft of 3' 6" maximum draught.  However, it has been reduced by CRT to 3' 0" in July 2020.

 

A couple of weeks ago CRT changed it back to 3' 6" -

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/32433-waterway-dimensions.pdf