Fuel Set availability

[manicpb]

I've noticed my exhaust fumes getting a tad smokier and I've never added any fuel additives since having the boat (4-5 months now). Just topped up with 70litres the other day along with probably 50litres over the time I've had it.

 

Seeing as Fuel Set is regularly mentioned and advised I guess it's probably a good thing, and can't do no harm, I intend to drop some in. Is it available from high street car parts shops (Halfords, Euro Car Parts, etc) or only from Chandlers? A Google search suggests only chandlers, which I'll order later if needs be, but I'll pay an extra couple of quid (which I'll probably pay in postage) if I can swing by somewhere to pick some up (west midlands based, Walsall/Tamworth)?!?

[Tony Brooks]

Fuel set is an anti-water and thus an anti-bug device, not anti-smoke. There are anti-smoke additives but I am far from sure they work or are sold in quantities suitable for van & car fuel tanks not boat tanks. Wynns Diesel Power 3 being one and they are available at car places..

 

Draining the bottom of the tank  regularly to minimise the water build up is arguably more important than anti-bug additives.

[Mike on the Wey]

In general terms, excess smoke equals excess fuel being burned ... with a few possible underlying reasons. How many hours has the engine done? Does it have a good history with regular servicing - particularly oil and filter changes?

[manicpb]

The smoke is not massively concerning, just a wake up call as to maybe there are things I should be doing that I'm currently not.

 

I get Fuel Set is anti water but I thought smoke was a possible sign of water in the fuel which is why I chose Fuel Set over the other common additive (something 16, is it?).

 

Should add it's white smoke, not dirty or coloured, fires up on the turn of the key with about 10 sec of preheat. Does use a bit of oil, may of put in 500ml to a litre since ownership (edit, thinking again it's definitely closer to the 500ml), probably done over 150 miles with the bringing it home and weekend trips.

 

It's got a history of paperwork, I've not sat down and studied it. (Second edit, no idea on hours but it's a 1979 boat with a BMC 1.5...so I'd imagine a shed load of hours! ? )I've a little trip coming up around the BCN before I moor up and plan to give it a full (DIY) service over the late autumn in-between weekend trips.

Edited August 17, 2020 by manicpb

[Tony Brooks]

Burning oil is supposed to produce blue smoke but it can look greyish, especially in smaller amounts.

 

I think if there was enough water in the fuel to produce visible steam in the exhaust it would have jammed up the hydraulic governor. This does not mean its not a head gasket fault but if its not spilling coolant from the filler or running hot its not so likely. I suspect the injectors may not be in the best condition but if its starting like it seems to be they will do.

 

I don't think you are not doing anything you should, my guess is that you have just noticed it. Check oil levels and coolant every morning, keep an eye on the engine temperature and carry on.

[manicpb]

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail Tony.

[Bee]

4 years ago I had a big problem with water and horrible rusty slime in the fuel, it took days to clean the tank and I have an access hole in mine that I can get an arm in, can't reach everywhere as its a big tank with a baffle in it, nevertheless I did a good job on it, Since then I unbolt the ring of bolts and lift the lid every spring and peer into the thing. I never fill it at the end of the season, in fact I have never filled it right up but the fuel in it has (so far) been OK. I have not used fuel additive.  I think the water problem was caused by a deck filler which is now fixed. I am sure that frequent draining off of the bottom layer is the best treatment for fuel but if its possible to fit a 6" dia. access hole then that should be standard practice, I know its awkward on narrowboats but cleaning a fuel tank and disposing of ruined fuel is a sod of a job. As for white smoke, it could be water vapour, on very damp days mine has visible vapour from the exhaust, warm dry days there is nothing at all.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Bee

[manicpb]

32 minutes ago, Bee said:

4 years ago I had a big problem with water and horrible rusty slime in the fuel, it took days to clean the tank and I have an access hole in mine that I can get an arm in, can't reach everywhere as its a big tank with a baffle in it, nevertheless I did a good job on it, Since then I unbolt the ring of bolts and lift the lid every spring and peer into the thing. I never fill it at the end of the season, in fact I have never filled it right up but the fuel in it has (so far) been OK. I have not used fuel additive.  I think the water problem was caused by a deck filler which is now fixed. I am sure that frequent draining off of the bottom layer is the best treatment for fuel but if its possible to fit a 6" dia. access hole then that should be standard practice, I know its awkward on narrowboats but cleaning a fuel tank and disposing of ruined fuel is a sod of a job. As for white smoke, it could be water vapour, on very damp days mine has visible vapour from the exhaust, warm dry days there is nothing at all.

Thanks, some food for thought there!

[PD1964]

2 hours ago, manicpb said:

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail Tony.

Yes and once again put doubt in a  boaters mind about head gaskets going and your injectors being knackered, a little bit of smoke is quite common especially at low revs and is more noticeable when in a lock or on a landing, cold engine, I wouldn’t worry unless it gets to a stage it’s really noticeable even at high revs, sometimes you can think yourself into a fault/problem.

[manicpb]

51 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Yes and once again put doubt in a  boaters mind about head gaskets going and your injectors being knackered, a little bit of smoke is quite common especially at low revs and is more noticeable when in a lock or on a landing, cold engine, I wouldn’t worry unless it gets to a stage it’s really noticeable even at high revs, sometimes you can think yourself into a fault/problem.

I know what it's the symptoms of and Tony's just confirmed the routes I could need to go down in the future. Admittedly it could scare others, as I said it's not something that is massively worrying me but thanks for putting my mind at rest.

[WotEver]

We had the head gasket go on a Fiat X-19 many moons ago. We filled the street with steam as I drove it into the garage. Most impressive. 

[manicpb]

38 minutes ago, WotEver said:

We had the head gasket go on a Fiat X-19 many moons ago. We filled the street with steam as I drove it into the garage. Most impressive. 

Had a head gasket go on a Rover 400 on the M40...it's certainly an experience!

[Guest]

If we are comparing spectacular car fails, I once blew an engine core plug out of the engine on a (week old) Ford XR3i. Driving through a local sea side resort.

 

It certainly drew some attention (and cheers/titters of course). ???

[dmr]

Boat diesels go smoky, all the light load running does them no good. It might be burning a bit of oil (blue smoke but really hard to tell blue from grey) in which case chemicals won't help, its engine wear, just live with it till its really worn out. It might be dirty injectors etc. A good bit of hard work might fix it, take it out onto a river and give it a thrash. Some fuel additives might just help. I don't like Fuel Set, its a generic petrol and diesel additive and it dissolves any water into the diesel to go through the engine, A diesel specific additive like Marine 16 complete is better. Also this will separate out the water so either the filter will catch it or you can suck it out of the bottom of your once every year.

 

...............Dave

[manicpb]

I've been tatting in the engine bay and along other things I've given the air filter a good clean and the smokey exhaust seems to have cleared. So I've either cured it, it's cleared itself or there was never an issue and it was in my head!

I may still order a bit of Fuel Set next time I'm putting an order in at a chandler but for the time being it's running with a lovely tone and I'm a happy boater!

[Mad Harold]

On 17/08/2020 at 15:16, dmr said:

Boat diesels go smoky, all the light load running does them no good. It might be burning a bit of oil (blue smoke but really hard to tell blue from grey) in which case chemicals won't help, its engine wear, just live with it till its really worn out. It might be dirty injectors etc. A good bit of hard work might fix it, take it out onto a river and give it a thrash. Some fuel additives might just help. I don't like Fuel Set, its a generic petrol and diesel additive and it dissolves any water into the diesel to go through the engine, A diesel specific additive like Marine 16 complete is better. Also this will separate out the water so either the filter will catch it or you can suck it out of the bottom of your once every year.

 

...............Dave

My old boat (BMC 1500) used to start smoking every few days. It was due I am sure to poddling along at low power settings.

The fix was to run at full power (on the river) for a few minutes.The smoke initially produced would have been a credit to a navy warship laying down a smokescreen.But after a short time the smoke would diminish after burning the soot out of the cylinder head and exhaust.

[BWM]

8 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

My old boat (BMC 1500) used to start smoking every few days. It was due I am sure to poddling along at low power settings.

The fix was to run at full power (on the river) for a few minutes.The smoke initially produced would have been a credit to a navy warship laying down a smokescreen.But after a short time the smoke would diminish after burning the soot out of the cylinder head and exhaust.

A good blast now and again definitely keeps things in order, none of the diesel engines were designed to run at the light loads common on canals. 

 Elderly injectors rarely get the attention they deserve on inland craft either!

[Tony Brooks]

3 hours ago, manicpb said:

I've been tatting in the engine bay and along other things I've given the air filter a good clean and the smokey exhaust seems to have cleared. So I've either cured it, it's cleared itself or there was never an issue and it was in my head!

I may still order a bit of Fuel Set next time I'm putting an order in at a chandler but for the time being it's running with a lovely tone and I'm a happy boater!

A dirty air filter will reduce the oxygen available to burn the fuel properly so you do get smoke tending to the black side. However if its a wire gauze BMC one it would have to be really clogged to cause it at canal speed.

[LadyG]

On 17/08/2020 at 08:23, Tony Brooks said:

Burning oil is supposed to produce blue smoke but it can look greyish, especially in smaller amounts.

 

I think if there was enough water in the fuel to produce visible steam in the exhaust it would have jammed up the hydraulic governor. This does not mean its not a head gasket fault but if its not spilling coolant from the filler or running hot its not so likely. I suspect the injectors may not be in the best condition but if its starting like it seems to be they will do.

 

I don't think you are not doing anything you should, my guess is that you have just noticed it. Check oil levels and coolant every morning, keep an eye on the engine temperature and carry on.

Confession time, I only check fuel and coolant about once or twice a month, when all the hoses and joints get a bit of a clean, bit of oil on antyhing that moves, and an inspection, I never did it in a modern car, unless going on a long journey, though I suppose red lights would have flashed when driving.

Edited November 4, 2020 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Confession time, I only check fuel and coolant about once or twice a month, when all the hoses and joints get a bit of a clean, bit of oil on antyhing that moves, and an inspection, I never did it in a modern car, unless going on a long journey, though I suppose red lights would have flashed when driving.

 

I would have thought with your offshore experience you would have continued those practices 'on the ditch'

Do you not do a DI before engine starting ?

[JamesFrance]

In 1974 I took a sailing boat with a Perkins 4107 down through the French canals and before reaching the river Saone it was smoking quite badly and running roughly.   As soon as I could speed up to 7 knots on the river there was a cloud of smoke which soon cleared and she ran smoothly after that until I sold the boat 6 years later.   I think the modern Kubota diesels have probably become much more tolerant of low speed running than the older automotive designs.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, JamesFrance said:

In 1974 I took a sailing boat with a Perkins 4107 down through the French canals and before reaching the river Saone it was smoking quite badly and running roughly.   As soon as I could speed up to 7 knots on the river there was a cloud of smoke which soon cleared and she ran smoothly after that until I sold the boat 6 years later.   I think the modern Kubota diesels have probably become much more tolerant of low speed running than the older automotive designs.

My Bukh DV32 regularly did that. After a while on canal use it needs a good blast on a river to clear the cobwebs.