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Jinna

Re coating 2 pack epoxy

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I’ve just purchased a NB that has had the hull blacked in 2 pack epoxy but it is ready for re doing due to age, I knew this when I bought it and this was included in the purchase price. Question is can you just jet wash and then reapply over the old 2 pack? Or is there more preparation required?

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When mine was done, the boatyard roughed up the old epoxy with a wire brush in an angle grinder and scabbled back to bare metal where the old coating was damaged on the stem post before apolying two coats of new epoxy.

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Ah that’s great cheers, was it roughly the same cost as a normal bitumen blacking then?

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1 hour ago, Jinna said:

Ah that’s great cheers, was it roughly the same cost as a normal bitumen blacking then?

 

A little more, mainly because the paint is more expensive.

 

The first lot (boat was epoxied from new, over Zinga) lasted 12 years, so hopefully the second lot should last at least 10.

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It will cost quite a bit more. The epoxy itself is more expensive and suitably abrading the old epoxy over the entire boat is quite a job. Also and scrapes and local failures in the epoxy will need the exposed steel taking 100% back to rough bare metal.

 

The new epoxy should go over most old epoxies without issues, but I believe some early epoxies were coal tar based and I am not sure if these are ok to over paint.

 

Epoxy is claimed to last many years and so be cost effective in the long term. Its not, If you use the boat then it needs repairs and works out more expensive, but its So Much Better and if you factor in the much reduced steel degradation then it is a good investment.

 

................Dave

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14 minutes ago, dmr said:

It will cost quite a bit more. The epoxy itself is more expensive and suitably abrading the old epoxy over the entire boat is quite a job. Also and scrapes and local failures in the epoxy will need the exposed steel taking 100% back to rough bare metal.

 

The new epoxy should go over most old epoxies without issues, but I believe some early epoxies were coal tar based and I am not sure if these are ok to over paint.

 

Epoxy is claimed to last many years and so be cost effective in the long term. Its not, If you use the boat then it needs repairs and works out more expensive, but its So Much Better and if you factor in the much reduced steel degradation then it is a good investment.

 

................Dave

Wot Dave said.

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16 minutes ago, dmr said:

Epoxy is claimed to last many years and so be cost effective in the long term. Its not, If you use the boat then it needs repairs and works out more expensive, but its So Much Better and if you factor in the much reduced steel degradation then it is a good investment.

 

If you used a bitumened boat and an epoxied boat identically, the bitumened one would come off a lot worse.  The total cost of the bitumen repairs would be in the dame ball park as the epoxy repairs, because there will be more of them.  That needs to be factored into the costings.

 

Epoxy is an investment, with a high first cost.  The outlay will not  recovered in the sale price if you sell soon after it is put on.  There will be a long term benefitbecause you have a less corroded hull not needing overplating.  So, treat epoxy like most other investments.  Don't look for short term gain, but expect to keep it and gain the benefits over time.

N

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26 minutes ago, BEngo said:

If you used a bitumened boat and an epoxied boat identically, the bitumened one would come off a lot worse.  The total cost of the bitumen repairs would be in the dame ball park as the epoxy repairs, because there will be more of them.  That needs to be factored into the costings.

 

Epoxy is an investment, with a high first cost.  The outlay will not  recovered in the sale price if you sell soon after it is put on.  There will be a long term benefitbecause you have a less corroded hull not needing overplating.  So, treat epoxy like most other investments.  Don't look for short term gain, but expect to keep it and gain the benefits over time.

N

When we were done in normal blacking we needed to redo it every two years, if we went three it looked really bad. With the epoxy we need to repair it every three years but we do a lot of boating (or did till this year) and the boat takes a bashing, a lightly used boat could likely go much longer. Its hard to compare prices directly as we used to do the blacking ourselves but now pay a yard to do the epoxy repairs, though I do most of the bare metal prep myself. I think an epoxy redo costs maybe 1.5 times the conventional blacking.  

 

With epoxy there is No steel degradation on the waterline, and any pitting is stopped dead.  Will likely get the baseplate done too next time.

 

...............Dave 

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Well worth having the base done.  We had Jarrah done all over in 2010, it was then washed and  abraded with a wire brush in an angle grinder and recoated in 2014 and 2018.  Before doing, the boat was 21 years old and there was some pitting along the waterline and a big gouge in the baseplate.  The shot blast and 2 coats Epidac 2PE  sorted both.  The surveyor in 2018 reckoned it to be in good order.  The bottom abrading is a shitty job, but the ACS dock is at least warm and dry, with the boat at a height to suit so it is better than lying in a puddle!

We have  done  about 6-800 miles a year and have been round pretty much all the BCN since the epoxy and even the shopping trolleys don't knock it off much.

Much recommended for a boat that is a keeper.

N

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Thanks for the replies everybody, next question is the boat is currently moored on the Shropshire union at Shebdon, any recommendations for a yard to do the job? Doesn’t have to be close as long as I can live onboard during the job.

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52 minutes ago, Jinna said:

Thanks for the replies everybody, next question is the boat is currently moored on the Shropshire union at Shebdon, any recommendations for a yard to do the job? Doesn’t have to be close as long as I can live onboard during the job.

Canal Cruising at Stone.   There and back could be a four counties ring 🙂

 

3 hours ago, BEngo said:

Well worth having the base done.  We had Jarrah done all over in 2010, it was then washed and  abraded with a wire brush in an angle grinder and recoated in 2014 and 2018.  Before doing, the boat was 21 years old and there was some pitting along the waterline and a big gouge in the baseplate.  The shot blast and 2 coats Epidac 2PE  sorted both.  The surveyor in 2018 reckoned it to be in good order.  The bottom abrading is a shitty job, but the ACS dock is at least warm and dry, with the boat at a height to suit so it is better than lying in a puddle!

We have  done  about 6-800 miles a year and have been round pretty much all the BCN since the epoxy and even the shopping trolleys don't knock it off much.

Much recommended for a boat that is a keeper.

N

I had a good look at the baseplate in the dry dock last year. A bit of a moonscape with pits everywhere but mostly  1-1.5mm. Maybe the odd one a 2mm. I also suspect some pitting from the inside out, maybe also 1 to 1.5mm, I found a couple when I redid the battery box a few years ago. Vox is just coming up to 20. Lots of forum reports of surveys on 20 year old boats saying they are like new at 9.8mm,  but I reckon if you keep a plate of untreated steel in water for 20 years it just must degrade. We found a little side pitting (well below the water line) about 8 years ago which is why we went the epoxy route. It really has stopped it dead.

 

Am tempted to get lifted out to get the baseplate done, though normally much prefer to use a dry dock.

 

..............Dave

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i had my boat done at hawne basin ,they take it out jet wash it and you have a week to do what ever you have to do .in that week we gave our boat 3 coats of 2 pac apoxy .i was told  it lasts about 7 years .but i dont think i would leave it that long to do it again.

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1 hour ago, haza said:

i had my boat done at hawne basin ,they take it out jet wash it and you have a week to do what ever you have to do .in that week we gave our boat 3 coats of 2 pac apoxy .i was told  it lasts about 7 years .but i dont think i would leave it that long to do it again.

2 pack epoxy over a waterjetted surface is not a good idea. No wonder it is failing in less than 7 years! You're lucky it lasted as long as it did.

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dr bob it was the hight of summer and was  thoughly dried off ..and who said its falling off, its as good now and looks like it was done last year .when in fact it was done four summers ago 

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10 minutes ago, haza said:

dr bob it was the hight of summer and was  thoughly dried off ..and who said its falling off, its as good now and looks like it was done last year .when in fact it was done four summers ago 

No one said it was falling off?

You said you wouldn't leave it 7 years next time so it must be failing in some way?

2 pack epoxies should last 10 years when applied to a decent surface. Water jetted surfaces are not good enough. It's not about water. What was the paint underneath your 2 pack epoxy?

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my boat is 13 years old and as only ever had 2 pac epoxy ,and its been done 3 times .sorry what i should have said for my own piece of mind i dont think any 2 pac would last 10 years ...and yes i have been called stupid for doing  it so often but i take what you say on board .

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19 hours ago, dmr said:

 

Epoxy is claimed to last many years and so be cost effective in the long term. Its not, If you use the boat then it needs repairs and works out more expensive, but its So Much Better and if you factor in the much reduced steel degradation then it is a good investment.

 

................Dave

 

My epoxy is now 5 years old and the only bits which need repair are on the rubbing strakes which I won't bother to do. But I applied 4 coats. I really don't think 2 is enough on bare steel.

Edited by blackrose

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7 hours ago, haza said:

my boat is 13 years old and as only ever had 2 pac epoxy ,and its been done 3 times .sorry what i should have said for my own piece of mind i dont think any 2 pac would last 10 years ...and yes i have been called stupid for doing  it so often but i take what you say on board .

No, not stupid. Cautious, I would say. Nowt wrong with that. 

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2 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

My epoxy is now 5 years old and the only bits which need repair are on the rubbing strakes which I won't bother to do. But I applied 4 coats. I really don't think 2 is enough on bare steel.

....ah but then the question is what was the wft you put on each time?

These two packs are designed to be sprayed on so you get a nice thick coating each coat. Two therefore is the recommended number to get the final dry coating thickness. The problem with brushing is that it is difficult to get the wet film thickness so you end up with a thinner coat...so your 4 may be the same thickness as a sprayed 2 coat. 

Good to get more coating on though!

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Worth noting that there is a lot of different epoxy coatings. Jotun (and probably others) do at least one that is 'surface tolerant'. I think I know what that means but the small print might have a more narrow definition. Coarse sandpaper might be a better bet for roughing up the old paint, buy a cheap sander then it might just last the length of the job. Wire brushes tend to polish the surface. Personally I use a roller to apply the stuff, you can get more pressure on it than a brush. Don't just rely on your glasses to protect your eyes, I did last time and the little specks of paint never come off, its like looking through a swarm of flies and I had to factor in the cost of glasses to the lift out!

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5 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

  But I applied 4 coats. I really don't think 2 is enough on bare steel.

That depends on the film thickness

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3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

That depends on the film thickness

I said that.

5 hours ago, Bee said:

Jotun (and probably others) do at least one that is 'surface tolerant'. I think I know what that means but the small print might have a more narrow definition.

Surface tolerant = Compromise.

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