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What do you need to NOT have to be BSS exempt?

 

Let's say a boat has no engine, no gas, and no stove. Can it get away with having a tiny bit of basic wiring, ie: solar panel to battery to light bulb?

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16 minutes ago, Izz said:

What do you need to NOT have to be BSS exempt?

 

Let's say a boat has no engine, no gas, and no stove. Can it get away with having a tiny bit of basic wiring, ie: solar panel to battery to light bulb?

Assuming what you meant in the first line is What sort of boat doesn't need a BSS certificate.

It depends on the navigation authority where you intend to keep the boat. For Canal and River Trust, from their web site:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/buy-your-boat-licence/boat-safety-scheme

Quote

So, unless your boat is an open craft such as a canoe, rowing boat or dinghy, and has no engine, all other boats, including houseboats, must have a:

  • boat safety certificate for older boats

or

  • recreational craft directive (RCD) for brand new boats

So it can't have any sort of cabin.

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies

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25 minutes ago, Izz said:

What do you need to NOT have to be BSS exempt?

 

Let's say a boat has no engine, no gas, and no stove. Can it get away with having a tiny bit of basic wiring, ie: solar panel to battery to light bulb?

To be honest the BSS is a very basic and very easy to comply with bit of legislation. When it first became talked about  it was more onerous but when it came in to being was not hard to comply with. The boat I had at the time was an old crock that did need  a fair bit of fettling to comply,  but anything built since its inception is easy to keep up to standard.

  • Greenie 1

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6 minutes ago, Izz said:

Right. Thanks.

 

Farking red tape! 🤪

 

It needs to be an 'open boat' 

 

 

The actual wording from the BSS website.

 

On most waterways, a BSS Examination is not required in respect of any privately owned, open vessel (i.e. a vessel in which all the accommodation is completely open to the elements) if it has no domestic cooking, heating, refrigerating or lighting appliances installed and it is propelled solely by an outboard engine. The decision rests with the navigation authority that will be licensing or registering your boat.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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42 minutes ago, Izz said:

Let's say a boat has no engine, no gas, and no stove. Can it get away with having a tiny bit of basic wiring, ie: solar panel to battery to light bulb?

 

17 minutes ago, Izz said:

Farking red tape! 🤪

For a boat with no engine, no gas and no stove, nine tenths of the BSS criteria are not applicable. It will be a very easy bit of red tape to deal with. Hard to fail, if you read the bits in the electrical section.

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies

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16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It needs to be an 'open boat' 

 

 

The actual wording from the BSS website.

 

On most waterways, a BSS Examination is not required in respect of any privately owned, open vessel (i.e. a vessel in which all the accommodation is completely open to the elements) if it has no domestic cooking, heating, refrigerating or lighting appliances installed and it is propelled solely by an outboard engine. The decision rests with the navigation authority that will be licensing or registering your boat.

But as far as CRT are concerned, an open boat with a petrol outboard does not need a BSC. But if you have an electric outboard, with a battery in the boat, then you have an "electrical system" and a BSC is required.

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4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But as far as CRT are concerned, an open boat with a petrol outboard does not need a BSC. But if you have an electric outboard, with a battery in the boat, then you have an "electrical system" and a BSC is required.

But if you have an petrol outboard with an electric start (battery on board)   ?????

 

 

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Put the boat on hard standing or build your own off canal marina.

 

13153421_477969442413152_1508136865_n.jpg

Edited by Ray T

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3 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Put the boat on hard standing or build your own off canal marina.

 

13153421_477969442413152_1508136865_n.jpg

That is not very hard, good job its got its fenders down

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You can also have a cabin but have no testable systems, electric, gas, fuel, solid fuel.

 

Kind regards

 

Dan

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2 hours ago, Izz said:

What do you need to NOT have to be BSS exempt?

 

Let's say a boat has no engine, no gas, and no stove. Can it get away with having a tiny bit of basic wiring, ie: solar panel to battery to light bulb?

 

May I ask why you ask? It's a most curious boat you must have.

 

 

You're not planning to put all the stuff back in once you have the exemption certificate, are you??

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
missing word

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1 hour ago, stagedamager said:

You can also have a cabin but have no testable systems, electric, gas, fuel, solid fuel.

 

Kind regards

 

Dan

You would still need to have a BSS certificate even then. Section 6 of the private boat requirements for fire extinguishers, 2nd means of escape. Also section 8, ventilation includes some for people in the accommodation space even if there are no appliances. Some of these are advisory, but not all. A battery and wiring in the boat will also be subject to BSS requirements.

Like MtB, I'm intrigued to know what this boat is.

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies

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2 minutes ago, stagedamager said:

My former bcn day boat is bss exempt, and has no testable systems, and has a cabin. 

On CaRT waters? Langley Mill, then yes. Intriguing. How did you go about getting an exemption? May be of interest to the OP.

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies

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We had several work flats with steel cabins that are no more than tool stores (so have nothing in them) and they were also BSS exempt.

 

On the advice of our independent BSS examiner we filled in the declaration that the boat didn't "require a BSS for the following reasons" (or words to that effect) and it was accepted by CRT.

 

I presume because as there is no source of ignition there's no need to worry about extinguishers, means of escape etc.

 

 

  • Greenie 1

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iirc It used to be that no gas, no electrics or solid fuel on the boat but a cabin could be exempt if it was just propelled by a pull start outboard

Think this subtly changed about a year ago so that now if you have a cabin and any of gas, electric, engine (inboard or o/b) or solid fuel it needs testing.

Even my 19' tupperware with a 5hp and not even a manually pumped water system (let alone electric or gas) that still falls under it and has a BSS pass. Took the examiner all of about five minutes to check the bits relevant to the boat (petrol storage, ventilation, CO detector, fire extinguisher, emergency exit) and the rest of the hour chatting about the canals.

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37 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

iirc It used to be that no gas, no electrics or solid fuel on the boat but a cabin could be exempt if it was just propelled by a pull start outboard

Think this subtly changed about a year ago so that now if you have a cabin and any of gas, electric, engine (inboard or o/b) or solid fuel it needs testing.

Even my 19' tupperware with a 5hp and not even a manually pumped water system (let alone electric or gas) that still falls under it and has a BSS pass. Took the examiner all of about five minutes to check the bits relevant to the boat (petrol storage, ventilation, CO detector, fire extinguisher, emergency exit) and the rest of the hour chatting about the canals.

Interesting. Good to hear how their thinking is evolving. So a boat with no cabin, but any engine, needs inspecting. A boat with a cabin and no engine, or services whatsoever doesn't. The OP's boat will do as soon as it has an electrical system, no matter how simple, by that criteria. Sounds like an opportunity for the OP @Izz to try to negotiate a discount on the BSS inspection as it would be very quick. Especially if she can find a local person who doesn't need to travel far, or if it can be done at the same time as another boat nearby.

Jen

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1 hour ago, BilgePump said:

iirc It used to be that no gas, no electrics or solid fuel on the boat but a cabin could be exempt if it was just propelled by a pull start outboard

Think this subtly changed about a year ago so that now if you have a cabin and any of gas, electric, engine (inboard or o/b) or solid fuel it needs testing.

Even my 19' tupperware with a 5hp and not even a manually pumped water system (let alone electric or gas) that still falls under it and has a BSS pass. Took the examiner all of about five minutes to check the bits relevant to the boat (petrol storage, ventilation, CO detector, fire extinguisher, emergency exit) and the rest of the hour chatting about the canals.

Seeing as this advice seems to be at odds with what the BSS say on their website, maybe it would be better for the OP to call and ask them directly

 

@Izz As is always the case, you will get 'experts' arguing that their interpretation is the correct one - go to the source.

 

I have already quoted directly from the BSS in post #6, but for the hard of reading here it is again :-

 

My boat is very small and has an outboard motor, do I need BSS Certification?

On most waterways, a BSS Examination is not required in respect of any privately owned, open vessel (i.e. a vessel in which all the accommodation is completely open to the elements) if it has no domestic cooking, heating, refrigerating or lighting appliances installed and it is propelled solely by an outboard engine. The decision rests with the navigation authority that will be licensing or registering your boat.

 

Contacting the BSS :

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/contact-us/contact-us-form/

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25 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Interesting. Good to hear how their thinking is evolving. So a boat with no cabin, but any engine, needs inspecting. A boat with a cabin and no engine, or services whatsoever doesn't. The OP's boat will do as soon as it has an electrical system, no matter how simple, by that criteria. Sounds like an opportunity for the OP @Izz to try to negotiate a discount on the BSS inspection as it would be very quick. Especially if she can find a local person who doesn't need to travel far, or if it can be done at the same time as another boat nearby.

Jen

I think an open boat with portable pull start o/b would be exempt but open boat with inboard engine systems necessitate a BSS test. Didn't really look too closely as the open canoe is elbow/shoulder powered. If a boat has no engine of any sort, no electric, gas or other fuel then a cabin is allowed. You would also have to send them a photo of the boat with any exemption application to support the request. As for the OP's 'a bit of wiring' then that's a fixed electrical circuit and falls under the test, and I would suggest any wiring can be dangerous if not done correctly. My boat came off the sea and had never been tested. The remaining wiring in it was so shady that I ripped it out and just use power-banks for USB lights and phone charging until I learn enough to fit a safe and compliant electrical system (and then the boat will need testing again!). Won't be having gas on such a small boat.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/733.pdf

 

Quote

 

(Please tick where applicable to your craft)

1 The boat: □ Is an open vessel (i.e. with all the accommodation open to the elements) and □ Has no gas appliances or electrical system installed and □ Is propelled solely by an outboard motor

OR

2 The boat: □ Has closed accommodation but has no engine or fuel system** and □ Has no gas appliances or electrical system installed and □ Has no free discharge to the waterway from a toilet appliance or holding tank

 

** A boat may be considered to have no engine if: (a) It has a diesel engine that has been permanently decommissioned in such a way that it cannot reasonably be put back into use and (b) Any diesel fuel tank has had all connections, except the vent, properly sealed

 

Please complete the details of your craft above, attach a recent photograph of the boat and sign the declaration if you consider your boat qualifies for an exemption.

Edited by BilgePump

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You are not really helping newbies with incorrect and inconsistent information - in post 18 you said :

 

1 hour ago, BilgePump said:

…. this subtly changed about a year ago so that now if you have a cabin and any of gas, electric, engine (inboard or o/b) or solid fuel it needs testing.

But now are saying :

 

7 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

...….think an open boat with portable pull start o/b would be exempt

 

It would be better if you would actually check the facts and give correct information.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Seeing as this advice seems to be at odds with what the BSS say on their website

I was writing about the current reasons CaRT will accept for a boat not requiring a BSS test

 

What I wrote was based on the exemption application form linked above and linked from https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/buy-your-boat-licence/boat-safety-scheme

 

I stated that a boat with a cabin with any elec/gas/fuel systems or engine of any kind needs a test for CaRT waters

Open boats are only exempt if unpowered or by an outboard engine, provided they have no other systems (electrical, gas, fuel, waste discharge)

 

Not sure how this is at odds with the linked form

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You are not really helping newbies with incorrect and inconsistent information - in post 18 you said :

 

But now are saying :

 

 

It would be better if you would actually check the facts and give correct information.

Alan for heaven's sake after the words you highlight are the words 'a cabin'. If it's an open boat you won't have a cabin

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28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Seeing as this advice seems to be at odds with what the BSS say on their website, maybe it would be better for the OP to call and ask them directly

 

@Izz As is always the case, you will get 'experts' arguing that their interpretation is the correct one - go to the source.

 

I have already quoted directly from the BSS in post #6, but for the hard of reading here it is again :-

 

My boat is very small and has an outboard motor, do I need BSS Certification?

On most waterways, a BSS Examination is not required in respect of any privately owned, open vessel (i.e. a vessel in which all the accommodation is completely open to the elements) if it has no domestic cooking, heating, refrigerating or lighting appliances installed and it is propelled solely by an outboard engine. The decision rests with the navigation authority that will be licensing or registering your boat.

 

Contacting the BSS :

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/contact-us/contact-us-form/

Surely the people to contact would be the relevant navigation authority, rather than the BSS. The BSS are providing a service to the various inland navigation authorities. It is up to each of those which boats need to be inspected and CaRT may be subtly different from the EA, or the Bridgewater for example.

Jen

  • Greenie 1

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8 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Surely the people to contact would be the relevant navigation authority, rather than the BSS. The BSS are providing a service to the various inland navigation authorities. It is up to each of those which boats need to be inspected and CaRT may be subtly different from the EA, or the Bridgewater for example.

Jen

Precisely. I'm quoting CaRT, Alan quoting the BSS site.

My boat requires a BSS examination for CaRT's waters where it currently is

If I moved it to my members-owned boat club mooring up a tidal creek, it wouldn't need one (although club rules obviously still require 3rd party insurance)

Edited by BilgePump
speelink

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