Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
crosser

cant get engine to run.. HELP !!

Featured Posts

2 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Is tha' a Northern Lad too, tha Kno's?

 

Fooling around, sorry :offtopic:  we are Cheshire set of course.

Luv thi lad, tek P all tha wants.

 

Don't apologies for being southern ya mum tried to get north

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, AWETHEAYET said:

Luv thi lad, tek P all tha wants.

 

Don't apologies for being southern ya mum tried to get north

Splutter!!!!!  Cheshire aint southern jessie territory cock!

 

 

 

Careful, I'm renown for being curmudgeonly!

Edited by Boater Sam
added more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

God knows who she is but when I use shit google  Cheshire this is your claim to fame :)

deleted image because I dont know here and I don't want to offend

Sorry ms nice smile I tried to delete

 

 

image.png

Edited by AWETHEAYET

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, AWETHEAYET said:

 

God knows who she is but when I use shit google  Cheshire this is your claim to fame :)

deleted image because I dont know here and I don't want to offend

Sorry ms nice smile I tried to delete

 

 

image.png

Not one of mine.

Cheshire, it has a plain. Wilmslow and Nether Alderley for millionaire footyballers, the Peovers; Superior: Over; Lower, salt, cheese, and Me!

 

We seem to of hijacked this thread, never mind it was getting absolutely nowhere.  Sorry Athy :offtopic:

Edited by Boater Sam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im sorry if ive upset people but i have tried everything that was suggested to me...  the oil hasnt gone anywhere, the water was added to the oil somehow and then a black oily mess was being chucked out of the rocker breather pipe so something was majorly wrong....  when i pulled the dipstick it there was clear water and the black oily crap...  i didnt want to risk starting it with that much fluid in the engine and cause further damage...  my wife asked the head mechanic from the marina to come check and he said not to try starting it and that its either head gasket or cracked block or head...   yes i am disabled and i was giving it my best shot but its not easy as its tight access and find it very exhausting and painful...  even if it ran there was still something very badly wrong that needed fixing with so much water getting in from somewhere...   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t think you have upset anyone.but think people are worried you may be stripping without knowing the cause of the the fault. We do not know your mechanical knowledge or experience and think I think you need some help with correct diagnosis. It will be worst when the heads off and you possibly not see anything wrong. Other ways water could get in by any water to oil coolers.is the coolant level dropping it should be if it is going in the oil? Is it worth removing injectors spinning engine over see if there’s water in the bores. I still think you need someone to have a look at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ive rebuilt lots of engines over the years but not really had much to do with diesels and boat setups...   the engine is raw water cooled so cant really watch water level...  ive only took the heat exchanger off so far but did find some big lumps of carbon on exhaust outlet so think its long overdue for looking at....   going back today to have a better look as was getting pretty dark..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, crosser said:

ive rebuilt lots of engines over the years but not really had much to do with diesels and boat setups...   the engine is raw water cooled so cant really watch water level...  ive only took the heat exchanger off so far but did find some big lumps of carbon on exhaust outlet so think its long overdue for looking at....   going back today to have a better look as was getting pretty dark..

 

A DIRECT raw water cooled engine does not use a heat exchanger but might use and engine oil cooler. An INDIRECT raw water cooled engine does use a  heat exchanger but also has coolant in the engine a bit like a car so you can watch the coolant level. This illustrates why some have concerns over your level of technical knowledge.

 

I am not even sure that you have actually taken a heat exchanger off but what you have taken off without photos I have no idea.

 

Now, DIRECT raw water cooled engines can and do fur up the water jacket around the exhaust valve seas, especially it a INDIRECT raw water cooled thermostat has been fitted. This often results in cracked valve seats than may well leak water into the engine innards and over time result in a loss of compression. It may also rust the rings into the pistons..

 

I feel it is probably time for you to bite the bullet and seek professional help, if for nothing else than a compression check., I am sure other members can recommend well respected engineers local to you.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

A DIRECT raw water cooled engine does not use a heat exchanger but might use and engine oil cooler. An INDIRECT raw water cooled engine does use a  heat exchanger but also has coolant in the engine a bit like a car so you can watch the coolant level. This illustrates why some have concerns over your level of technical knowledge.

 

I am not even sure that you have actually taken a heat exchanger off but what you have taken off without photos I have no idea.

 

Now, DIRECT raw water cooled engines can and do fur up the water jacket around the exhaust valve seas, especially it a INDIRECT raw water cooled thermostat has been fitted. This often results in cracked valve seats than may well leak water into the engine innards and over time result in a loss of compression. It may also rust the rings into the pistons..

 

I feel it is probably time for you to bite the bullet and seek professional help, if for nothing else than a compression check., I am sure other members can recommend well respected engineers local to you.

 

thankyou tony for your help...   i have seeked proffesional help hence why ive taken the head off....  its just that there so busy for next couple of months and thats why im attacking it myself....   i only said heat exchanger as thats what i assumed it was called....    i will have to get some photos...  im not saying that the water issue is the cause of it not running but its a problem itself needs sorting anyway and then i will get back to trying to get it running again...  i cant really start the engine with that amount of water in the sump...  the head is now off and getting pressure tested and cleaned as its badly covered in sludge...  put some diesel in the bores to leave overnight to see if it leaks past the rings...  ive removed the injector pump and the springs are good in there...   i will get the injectors cleaned while there out...      but thanks again for your great input and advice...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Ok on the face of it this seems impossible, unless your engine has no oil in it whatsoever. Water getting into the sump will gather underneath whatever oil is in there. ISTR you mentioning earlier that the oil level was really high. We all took this to be a diesel leak but this could also have been due to water under the oil. 

 

As DMR often says, best not to start taking an engine to bits until you have worked out what has failed. The evidence is always there if you look properly. 

 

 

 

I was taught three or four bits of wisdom in my working life

 

Never take an engine apart till you know what is wrong with out.

 

Never ask a question till you know roughly what the answer is

 

If you formulate a question correctly the answer is usually obvious.

 

Proof readers always find faults in a document, so include a few deliberate ones for them to find

 

and always know more than you say 😀

 

................Dave

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

I was taught three or four bits of wisdom in my working life

 

Never take an engine apart till you know what is wrong with out.

 

Never ask a question till you know roughly what the answer is

 

If you formulate a question correctly the answer is usually obvious.

 

Proof readers always find faults in a document, so include a few deliberate ones for them to find

 

and always know more than you say 😀

 

................Dave

 

Isn't that five? Or am I the proof reader!:)

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, crosser said:

s-l1600 (16).jpg

thats the only picture i have at the moment..  

I've slightly lost the plot but that is a raw water cooled engine, probably direct as I can't see an intermediate hx. Was it isolated and drained before the first frost?...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is exactley the same engine as mine...  the big manifold with the cap at the bottom of the picture is what i called the heat exchanger..  what is it called just so i know for future reference please...    thanks

motor-nanni-diesel-59584120150254515351535455514569x.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if the "Vetus Waterlock" (exhaust water cooling) anti-syphon is leaking and allowing the water back into the exhaust manifold and into the engine ?

 

(The big grey 'box', between the sea-cock & the inlet water filter)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I wonder if the "Vetus Waterlock" (exhaust water cooling) anti-syphon is leaking and allowing the water back into the exhaust manifold and into the engine ?

 

(The big grey 'box', between the sea-cock & the inlet water filter)

now that is a thought !!   i wonder if theres a way of testing that off the boat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Onewheeler said:

I've slightly lost the plot but that is a raw water cooled engine, probably direct as I can't see an intermediate hx. Was it isolated and drained before the first frost?...

it wasnt isolated and drained as the engine bay is heated so i thought it wasnt needed...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you 'aint lost me yet and my hat off to anyone working down that 'orrible little 'ole! Not that I can offer much help, too far away for a start and I've never been up close and intimate with one of these particular engines. Most of my experience with diesels is R&D (work related) and things like Nationals and RNs, (my time) so I do have some ideas.

 

Two thoughts:

 

"I wonder if the "Vetus Waterlock" (exhaust water cooling) anti-syphon is leaking and allowing the water back into the exhaust manifold and into the engine ? "

A prime suspect, well worth investigating.

 

""Why wouldn't it fire when Easy Start was used ?"

If there is little or no diesel getting into the cylinders then a wiff or two of easy start will hardly make it 'pop', its low flash point is there to help iniate combustion but if there is nothing to light its on its own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Man 'o Kent said:

If there is little or no diesel getting into the cylinders then a wiff or two of easy start will hardly make it 'pop', its low flash point is there to help iniate combustion but if there is nothing to light its on its own

 

Not my experience with Easy Start at all. I find an engine with no fuel can be made to run on it in extremis continuously by squirting little squirts carefully into the air intake. I first saw this done when in desperation I employed an engineer to get my BD3 going after I ran out of fuel and I could not get the damn thing bled and running. He kept it running for about 30 seconds with blips of Easy Start and it suddenly purged itself and started running on diesel. £50 squids please!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i found this paragraph on another forum about water getting into the engine ...   it makes total sense to me...   fingers crossed thats the answer to my water problem,,,  and i should think water getting in the pots would stop it firing..

 

 most people who had flooded their engines, including my brother, had done so by filling the waterlook, cranking the engine for a long time while bleeding the fuel line. In that case the water lock slowly fills simply from the pump, and there is not enough air pressure to push it out, from just cranking. In such case one should always close the seacock of the water intake. (And open it quickly when the engine finally runs).

 

it was canal water getting into the engine as it was perfectly clear water and no antifreeze so would make sense...

Edited by crosser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, crosser said:

this is exactley the same engine as mine...  the big manifold with the cap at the bottom of the picture is what i called the heat exchanger..  what is it called just so i know for future reference please...    thanks

motor-nanni-diesel-59584120150254515351535455514569x.jpg

 

That image has all the hallmarks of an INDIRECT raw water or heat exchanger cooled engine. The radiator cap is on the exhaust manifold and that is also most likely to  contain a heat exchanger core. It should also contain coolant to about 1" below the filler neck level. If its dry or very much lower then its  probably gone into the engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, crosser said:

i found this paragraph on another forum about water getting into the engine ...   it makes total sense to me...   fingers crossed thats the answer to my water problem,,,  and i should think water getting in the pots would stop it firing..

 

 most people who had flooded their engines, including my brother, had done so by filling the waterlook, cranking the engine for a long time while bleeding the fuel line. In that case the water lock slowly fills simply from the pump, and there is not enough air pressure to push it out, from just cranking. In such case one should always close the seacock of the water intake. (And open it quickly when the engine finally runs).

 

it was canal water getting into the engine as it was perfectly clear water and no antifreeze so would make sense...

I was very reluctant to use a WaterLock so removed it and altered it so the exhaust actually exits below the water line (underwater). I cannot see that a water cooled exhaust that exits higher than the exhaust manifold can make sense.

Some systems are "just a solution looking for a problem" and actually increase the complexity and likely hood of problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never trusted those waterlock boxes either. Crossers boat almost certainly has an integral fuel tank accross the stern end, so the ejection pipe has to go above it to eject at the stern. not good at all.  It might be possible to chuck that box and place an inverted U bend, sorry can't invert the U, the apex of which as high as possible under deck board and above the waterline outside with the water ejection pipe from the engine plumbed as far down the outward down slope of the U bend  as possible and connected at a  downward slant to encourage the water and help it eject over the side. This arrangement of course will have to come out of the hull side insted of the stern a few inches above the water line with a skin fitting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also you might need a silencer, so if a long distance pipe can be included after the inverted U bend, the pipe going gently downhill to the skin fitting. A silencer would be fitted directly after the U bend and the water ejection pipe fitted a good few inches after that to keep the silencer dry, the water ejection  pipe fitting on the this pipe will still need to slant towards to outlet.  Perhaps the pipe from the U bend or silencer can be made to ''about turn ''and brought forwards at a downwards slope even through the rear bulkhead behind which the water ejection pipe could be fitted before the outlet skin fitting over the side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.