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haza

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No thermo couple on my bubble stove, the regulator is below the top of the pot so I would assume if it blew out [never happened in 15 years] the float in the regulator would stop the kero in my case flowing over. In my case its a close run thing about running costs kero is fairly cheap and anthracite is fairly cheap as well, the bubble is cleaner but I cook on the rayburn both heat hot water and run the central heating

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31 minutes ago, cuthound said:

There should be a thermocouple, which shuts off the oil if there isn't a flame playing on it. 

 

<snip>
 

I would change the thermocouple ASAP. It is an easy job and universal thermocouples are available from Screwfix (but might need cooling up to reduce the length to what your stove needs).

If the flow wasn’t stopping with a faulty thermocouple then it wouldn’t stop with a new one either. 

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3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

If the flow wasn’t stopping with a faulty thermocouple then it wouldn’t stop with a new one either. 

 

True, however the OP is now saying his Reflecks stove hasn't got an oil stuff off valve with thermocouple..

 

Can other Refleks users confirm whether or not they are fitted as standard? In my opinion it is an essential safety device and it shouldn't be too difficult to fit one if it wasn't originally fitted.

 

Something like this, between the filter on the supply inlet pipe (if fitted) and the Toby Oil Control Valve.

 

https://www.bes.co.uk/kbb-fire-shut-off-valve-65c-12m-1-4-13371?ref=gs&photo=true&gclid=Cj0KCQiAz53vBRCpARIsAPPsz8XV3tJG9PCcRNcRxfQukqZCW6tG2--AHn57TzewCS11i3fvGi0SxtcaAuw3EALw_wcB

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22 minutes ago, cuthound said:

In my opinion it is an essential safety device and it shouldn't be too difficult to fit one if it wasn't originally fitted.

Agreed that they’ll add another safety layer but if the original safety shut-off fitment was mechanical (ie a float valve) then I’m not sure I’d call one ‘essential’. 

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1 hour ago, cuthound said:

Can other Refleks users confirm whether or not they are fitted as standard? In my opinion it is an essential safety device and it shouldn't be too difficult to fit one if it wasn't originally fitted.

I was speaking with someone in Springwood who has this stove. He has a device fitted which stops the fuel flow on flame failure, and was surprised I didn't. I meant to ask him for a look but didn't get round to it. I'll ask him when I see him next as I have no idea where the sensor would go in this stove.

43 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Agreed that they’ll add another safety layer but if the original safety shut-off fitment was mechanical (ie a float valve)

Not sure at the moment if this is the case. (eta: According to Tony, this float has nothing to do with any flame failure cut-off)

Edited by eid

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if im not mistaken the thermo is in side the fire just above the round thingy 

if im not mistaken the thermo is in side the fire just above the round thingy 

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14 minutes ago, haza said:

if im not mistaken the thermo is in side the fire just above the round thingy

Where does it enter the stove though? Are you able to photo it?

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Having run a Dickinson Adriatic for 20 years to heat my 60ft boat I'm very interested in all the comments in this thread many of which accord with my own experience. The fundamentals of the way the Dickinson pot burner works may (or may not) help to clarify some of the points raised.

 

i) the device employed to stop the diesel from overflowing the burner pot in the event of the flame blowing out, is a float valve incorporated within the metering unit.

ii) overheat situations where the fire runs away with itself are controlled by a fuseable link: in effect a bit of solder melts allowing the needle valve to close. Once everything has cooled down it can be re-soldered.

iii) my fuel consumption never varies far from 6 litres per hour and for this I can maintain the boat's temperature throughout, in pretty much any weather, at a steady 20 deg C. Of course Mr Smelly will appreciate that a thermo-electric fan is required to evenly distribute the heat!

iV) I also get hot water, a hot radiator in the bathroom and an oven and large hotplate to cook on.

v) my biggest revelation was the result of installing a barometric damper .......... having seen the price when I bought the stove itself, I instantly decided that it was an optional extra I could well do without! However, the stove tended to soot up quite quickly, the flame rarely burnt with Dickinson's recommended lemon yellow colouration and it also tended to climb out of the burner pot in anything stronger than a light breeze. Fitting the BD transformed the operating of the stove and everything is now as per Dickinson's spec. The biggest bonus is that I hardly ever have to clean the burner pot – certainly not during the winter's use which tends to be from October to April. The worst I get is a light residue which just brushes off the sides of the burner pot. The all-important holes around the circumference never block and there is no longer a hard layer of baked on crud needing chipping off the bottom of the burner on a regular basis where the superheater sits.

 

It's interesting that it has taken until fairly recently for Dickinson to post some really user-friendly operating instructions where they acknowledge such foibles of diesel fuel as the fact that it thickens significantly in cold weather and thins in hot. That means that needle valve settings are also a moveable feast and the closest I've ever come to the flame going out is not down to down-draught (pretty much a thing of the past since fitting the BD) but due to an unexpected cold night when I already had the valve set to the minimum!

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16 minutes ago, eid said:

Where does it enter the stove though? Are you able to photo it?

 

On my Kabola Old Dutch, the oil shut off valve fits in the fuel supply pipe between the in line pre-filter (which you may or may not have) and the Toby Oil Regulator Valve (which has the knob on it to turn the flames up & down and to shut the stove off). It is fitted behind the stove.

 

The thermocouple then comes out of the oil shut off valve, and goes through the back of the stove, with the tip being just above the top of the burner pot, so that it is bathed in flame when the stove is lit.

 

Is there a small hole in the back of the stove where the thermocouple could enter? If not, then it has never been fitted with one. If it has, then someone has removed the thermocouple and associated oil shut off valve.

 

This excellent article by @koukouvagia article shows how to service one. The second photo shows the oil shut off valve directly below the Toby Oil regulator valve. Unfortunately the position of the thermocouple relative to the top of the burner pot isn't shown on the photos.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

On my Kabola Old Dutch, the oil shut off valve fits in the fuel supply pipe between the in line pre-filter (which you may or may not have) and the Toby Oil Regulator Valve (which has the knob on it to turn the flames up & down and to shut the stove off). It is fitted behind the stove.

 

The thermocouple then comes out of the oil shut off valve, and goes through the back of the stove, with the tip being just above the top of the burner pot, so that it is bathed in flame when the stove is lit.

 

Is there a small hole in the back of the stove where the thermocouple could enter? If not, then it has never been fitted with one. If it has, then someone has removed the thermocouple and associated oil shut off valve.

 

This excellent article by @koukouvagia article shows how to service one. The second photo shows the oil shut off valve directly below the Toby Oil regulator valve. Unfortunately the position of the thermocouple relative to the top of the burner pot isn't shown on the photos.

 

 

 

There aren't any unused holes in the stove. Only the one where the fuel and cleaning needle enter.

 

 

Are we seeing the same photo? Mine is so blurry I can't make anything out:

 

 

imageproxy_php.jpeg.585d8ad9635ea394dfab773ed332c4ed.jpeg

 

 

Edited by eid

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10 minutes ago, eid said:

 

There aren't any unused holes in the stove. Only the one where the fuel and cleaning needle enter.

 

 

Are we seeing the same photo? Mine is so blurry I can't make anything out:

 

 

imageproxy_php.jpeg.585d8ad9635ea394dfab773ed332c4ed.jpeg

 

 

 

Sounds like yours never had a thermocouple and oil shut off valve fitted originally.

 

If you click on the blurry photo in Koukpevagia's original post, it takes you to an in focus one. ? Never used to be like that, must be something to do with the originals being hosted on Photbucket.

Edited by cuthound
Clarification

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6 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Sounds like yours never had a thermocouple and oil shut off valve fitted originally.

 

If you click on the blurry photo in Koukpevagia's original post, it takes you to an in focus one. ? Never used to be like that, must be something to do with the originals being hosted on Photbucket.

 

Sorry I was wrong. It does appear to have a blanking plate under the regulator which you can see here.

 

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2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

True, however the OP is now saying his Reflecks stove hasn't got an oil stuff off valve with thermocouple..

 

Can other Refleks users confirm whether or not they are fitted as standard? In my opinion it is an essential safety device and it shouldn't be too difficult to fit one if it wasn't  originally fitted.

 

Something like this, between the filter on the supply inlet pipe (if fitted) and the Toby Oil Control Valve.

 

https://www.bes.co.uk/kbb-fire-shut-off-valve-65c-12m-1-4-13371?ref=gs&photo=true&gclid=Cj0KCQiAz53vBRCpARIsAPPsz8XV3tJG9PCcRNcRxfQukqZCW6tG2--AHn57TzewCS11i3fvGi0SxtcaAuw3EALw_wcB

I can confirm that my Refleks does not have a thermocouple. It came with the boat so I didn't see it when new but there is no obvious way one could have ever been fitted.

 

I have had an overflow of diesel on one occasion but it was in the early days and I was not familiar with the operation of the stove so made no proper examination of what had happened.

 

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Eid's problem of an overflowing unlit stove and the lack of control could be due to the float valve being set at the wrong height. The oil level in the valve should be 10-15mm above the burner base. If it is higher, then the stove will overfire, and if it goes out, excess oil will leak through the aeration holes of the burner.

The Bubble does not have a thermocouple. Overflow safety is a mechanical latch in the OCV. If It goes out, then all you are left with is a 1/2" of oil in the bottom of the pot.

All stoves should be fitted with a remote fire valve in the supply line. These are not part of the fire kit, and will be a fluid expansion operated valve in a copper capillary, or a solder link cable lever sprung valve. Solder wheel sprung valves are available, but no longer comply with regulations.

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1 hour ago, Up-Side-Down said:

Having run a Dickinson Adriatic for 20 years to heat my 60ft boat I'm very interested in all the comments in this thread many of which accord with my own experience. The fundamentals of the way the Dickinson pot burner works may (or may not) help to clarify some of the points raised.

 

i) the device employed to stop the diesel from overflowing the burner pot in the event of the flame blowing out, is a float valve incorporated within the metering unit.

ii) overheat situations where the fire runs away with itself are controlled by a fuseable link: in effect a bit of solder melts allowing the needle valve to close. Once everything has cooled down it can be re-soldered.

iii) my fuel consumption never varies far from 6 litres per hour and for this I can maintain the boat's temperature throughout, in pretty much any weather, at a steady 20 deg C. Of course Mr Smelly will appreciate that a thermo-electric fan is required to evenly distribute the heat!

iV) I also get hot water, a hot radiator in the bathroom and an oven and large hotplate to cook on.

v) my biggest revelation was the result of installing a barometric damper .......... having seen the price when I bought the stove itself, I instantly decided that it was an optional extra I could well do without! However, the stove tended to soot up quite quickly, the flame rarely burnt with Dickinson's recommended lemon yellow colouration and it also tended to climb out of the burner pot in anything stronger than a light breeze. Fitting the BD transformed the operating of the stove and everything is now as per Dickinson's spec. The biggest bonus is that I hardly ever have to clean the burner pot – certainly not during the winter's use which tends to be from October to April. The worst I get is a light residue which just brushes off the sides of the burner pot. The all-important holes around the circumference never block and there is no longer a hard layer of baked on crud needing chipping off the bottom of the burner on a regular basis where the superheater sits.

 

It's interesting that it has taken until fairly recently for Dickinson to post some really user-friendly operating instructions where they acknowledge such foibles of diesel fuel as the fact that it thickens significantly in cold weather and thins in hot. That means that needle valve settings are also a moveable feast and the closest I've ever come to the flame going out is not down to down-draught (pretty much a thing of the past since fitting the BD) but due to an unexpected cold night when I already had the valve set to the minimum!

I have found that cleaning is only required about once a year now, since red diesel changed to low sulphur, before that it was a regular task. Are you sure its 6 lt/hr that is 25 gallons a day.

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

 

Something like this, between the filter on the supply inlet pipe (if fitted) and the Toby Oil Control Valve.

 

https://www.bes.co.uk/kbb-fire-shut-off-valve-65c-12m-1-4-13371?ref=gs&photo=true&gclid=Cj0KCQiAz53vBRCpARIsAPPsz8XV3tJG9PCcRNcRxfQukqZCW6tG2--AHn57TzewCS11i3fvGi0SxtcaAuw3EALw_wcB

I have one of these fitted to my Dickinson, it will not trip if the flame goes out but it will if you get overheating, its a fire protection device not a flame failure one

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55 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have one of these fitted to my Dickinson, it will not trip if the flame goes out but it will if you get overheating, its a fire protection device not a flame failure one

 

My mistake, I was looking for a themocouple operated oil shut off valve and that is what Google came up with. I should havevread the description.

 

If the OP wants to see if it Is possible to fit one to his stove, he is perhaps best advised to contact Lockgate for advice and spares.

 

https://lockgate.com/

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i will put photo up when i can ...one thing those who have refleks fires how many times as yours blown out ...up to date mine  as never ,but having said that i have only been running mine for a couple of months 

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4 minutes ago, haza said:

i will put photo up when i can ...one thing those who have refleks fires how many times as yours blown out ...up to date mine  as never ,but having said that i have only been running mine for a couple of months 

 

In the 6 winters I have had my Kabola Old Dutch it has never blown out.

 

However in the first winter, when the high flame setting was too high, it almost ran away on a particularly windy day, resulting in the stove glowing cherry red before I noticed and turned it off.

 

Since then I have adjusted the high flame screw so that i get blue flames up to and including setting 4 and invested in a short "cruising" chimney which reduces draught and fits under all but the lowest bridges.

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16 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

Eid's problem of an overflowing unlit stove and the lack of control could be due to the float valve being set at the wrong height. The oil level in the valve should be 10-15mm above the burner base. If it is higher, then the stove will overfire, and if it goes out, excess oil will leak through the aeration holes of the burner.

The Bubble does not have a thermocouple. Overflow safety is a mechanical latch in the OCV. If It goes out, then all you are left with is a 1/2" of oil in the bottom of the pot.

All stoves should be fitted with a remote fire valve in the supply line. These are not part of the fire kit, and will be a fluid expansion operated valve in a copper capillary, or a solder link cable lever sprung valve. Solder wheel sprung valves are available, but no longer comply with regulations.

 

Thanks for the info. Just got a similar reply from Refleks:

 

Quote
The oil control is mounted on the stove so that the oil level in the oil control is approx.. 10 mm higher than the bottom
of the burner pot.
If the flame blows out there will run 10 mm oil into the burner pot and then is stops.
Before relighting the stove you should remove the oil in the bottom of the burner pot.

 Seems I need to do some maintenance.

 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

If the OP wants to see if it Is possible to fit one to his stove, he is perhaps best advised to contact Lockgate for advice and spares.

 

https://lockgate.com/

 

 

I have tried to contact Lockgate on several occasions, including yesterday. Like many others I have been ignored (except once, strangely).

Edited by eid

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12 hours ago, haza said:

i will put photo up when i can ...one thing those who have refleks fires how many times as yours blown out ...up to date mine  as never ,but having said that i have only been running mine for a couple of months 

 

I should point out that when mine blew out it was soon after lighting it, so perhaps hadn't heated up properly. Plus I lowered my minimum flame setting. Also, my flu cowl looks like the outer ring was home made so maybe it just doesn't do what it's meant to.

Edited by eid

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On 04/12/2019 at 10:02, ditchcrawler said:

Surly the diesel cuts off before it can overflow on the floor, my Dickinson does, and by re adjusting the minimum burn, two point, it could be why it blows out and are you sure the flame is burning at the correct height in the burner pot

Even my little Taylor's heater has a thermocouple which cuts off the fuel supply as soon as the flame goes out. Kinda surprised other liquid fuel stoves don't have the same.

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