Lee Fricker Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Hi, I’ve just purchased a 55ft cruiser stern and the tiller is very stiff. There’s no grease nipple on the tiller. Does anyone know the easiest way to get some lube in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Much depends upon exactly how it is constructed. You may have a simple rudder shaft in a close fitting tube, a much larger tube with a ball bearing or plastic bearing at the top. We really need a photo of the area where the rudder shaft goes down through the back of the boat. It is even possible the rudder stock (shaft) has been bent and is binding in the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 You might find that it's not the bearing that is at fault but where the rudder stock sits in the cup, especially if the boat has been sat doing nothing for a while. Repeated use can cure this, or if the boat is out of water for survey , try lifting rudder, placing a 2p coin in the cup with some copper slip, and dropping back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 I would not use a 2p because they are just coated steel. an old halfpenny or a suitably sized copper or brass washer would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 My money is on the rudder stock being a little bent, and a plain bearing bearing being at the top of the rudder tube which is now tilted in the tube and jamming. Could the OP post a photo of the bearing at the base of the swan neck perhaps, please? Bending the rudder stock is shocking easy to do, I'm surprised it doesn't happened more often. It happens when winding the boat nd the steerer engages astern with the boat half way around, and s/he whacks the bank in reverse and with the rudder roughly straight, and a stern fender not extending far enough beyond the rudder. Can also bend it in a lock in the boat surges back and the rudder hits the sill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceinSanity Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Bending the rudder stock is shocking easy to do, I'm surprised it doesn't happened more often. It happens when winding the boat nd the steerer engages astern with the boat half way around, and s/he whacks the bank in reverse and with the rudder roughly straight, and a stern fender not extending far enough beyond the rudder. Can also bend it in a lock in the boat surges back and the rudder hits the sill. I think I’ve ‘fessed up to this before: a few years back taking SA down the Audlem flight with Sheila lockwheeling ahead and me working the boat down, I overconfidently let her slip back in the lock and just caught the tip of the rudder on the cill, it having decided to swing straight. That was a very bad moment which will haunt my dreams for ever, seeing your home preparing to submarine under ?. Managed to drop the bottom paddles and ease up a top one in time to save the day, but the tiller was then very stiff for exactly this reason, the stock was bent and binding in the upper bearing. Had her dragged out at Overwater where they used a hydraulic jack on its side between the stern post and the stock to shove it straight again. Some months later I was talking to Tim Tyler who said “Bruce, that’s exactly what we’d have done.” It’s been absolutely fine since, but we’re a lot more cautious about locking down these days! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbfiresprite Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: I would not use a 2p because they are just coated steel. an old halfpenny or a suitably sized copper or brass washer would be better. Only post 1991, if dated before it will be made of copper. Still a fare number around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 minute ago, nbfiresprite said: Only post 1991, if dated before it will be made of copper. Still a fare number around. Presumably this is because the scrap value of the metal in an all-copper 2p became higher than 2p coin about 1991? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbfiresprite Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Presumably this is because the scrap value of the metal in an all-copper 2p became higher than 2p coin about 1991? A copper 2p is now worth about 3 1/2p 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said: A copper 2p is now worth about 3 1/2p Thanks, that's what I was trying to find out but my question got all mangled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 I was going to ask this same question. My rudder is stiff...and getting stiffer. It has now started making 'groaning' noises towards the end stop. I tried working oil down it..but it's made little difference. Maybe an ..out of the water and take bearings out...job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffy Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Mine does the exactly the same every few months, a few drops of oil on the shaft as it goes into the bearings housing cures it, I assume its a dry seal or bush, takes a few miles of cruising for it to work its way in Note - I must remember to lubricate before it starts to sieze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, sniffy said: Mine does the exactly the same every few months, a few drops of oil on the shaft as it goes into the bearings housing cures it, I assume its a dry seal or bush, takes a few miles of cruising for it to work its way in Note - I must remember to lubricate before it starts to sieze Thanks.....but I emptied half a can of oil down it.....40 hours ago and it's getting worse ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, Bobbybass said: My rudder is stiff...and getting stiffer. It has now started making 'groaning' noises You didn't drop one of those "little blue pills" in the water did you? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, Bobbybass said: I was going to ask this same question. My rudder is stiff...and getting stiffer. It has now started making 'groaning' noises towards the end stop. I tried working oil down it..but it's made little difference. Maybe an ..out of the water and take bearings out...job The answer must be the same until you post a photo or tell us what type of top bearing you have - if any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Most likely it is one of the things mentioned above, but it might be worth taking a look down the weed hatch, assuming your boat has one. The steering went very stiff on my boat part way along a trip up the tidal Trent. Turned out there was a tree branch jamming the rudder that just cleared the prop, but made the tiller very hard to turn. Rafted up alongside the boat I was travelling with so I could get it out, along with the plastic coal sack wrapped around the prop. Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: The answer must be the same until you post a photo or tell us what type of top bearing you have - if any Photo as requested...thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Thanks. i think that is a ball shaped rubber/plastic ball shaped bush in a housing. Some plastics can swell when in contact with water. I would remove the four bolts and lift the upper housing as far as it will go and see it the bush has rusted to the rudder stock. I think you wll then find out which bit is stiff. My guess would be stock rusted onto the bush and the bush tight in the housing. You may have to take the whole tiller assembly off to get a proper look at what is going on. I keep wanting to call that bearing a Barstock bearing but I know that is not the name. Someone will be along with the proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Doubt it's the top one being stiff, it has an O ring to centralise the stock, it eventually wears leaving a loose stock. Bottom bearing needs some grease and/or a copper disc as already mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 A note of caution if you end up taking the tiller off to examine the top bearing. (Which looks likely given the clearence) At this point the only thing stopping your rudder sinking to the bottom is the bottom cup. It is wise to have a rope supporting the rudder in case you dislodge it. Most boats have a hole at the top of the rudder to do this. And be aware the whole thing is heavy!! Took two people to lift mine when it dropped during a top bearing change and another to guide end back into cup!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: Thanks. i think that is a ball shaped rubber/plastic ball shaped bush in a housing. Some plastics can swell when in contact with water. I would remove the four bolts and lift the upper housing as far as it will go and see it the bush has rusted to the rudder stock. I think you wll then find out which bit is stiff. My guess would be stock rusted onto the bush and the bush tight in the housing. You may have to take the whole tiller assembly off to get a proper look at what is going on. I keep wanting to call that bearing a Barstock bearing but I know that is not the name. Someone will be along with the proper name. Warstock (Midland Chandlers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fizz Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 That all looks a little odd. The bearing carrier appears to be welded to the rectangular plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 44 minutes ago, Captain Fizz said: That all looks a little odd. The bearing carrier appears to be welded to the rectangular plate. It might be overpainted silicone sealant, rather than weld bead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dor Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 58 minutes ago, Captain Fizz said: That all looks a little odd. The bearing carrier appears to be welded to the rectangular plate. Don’t think so. Normal fitting for this bearing is a ring welded to the counter, with threaded holes to take the bolts on the upper part which holds the nylon bush. In the photo you can just see the join between the upper and lower parts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) On Innisfree I drilled and tapped a hole in the housing to take a grease nipple to keep the O ring lubricated, worked after a fashion, I did intend to modify by turning a couple of extra grooves in the housing to accommodate two O rings with nipple exiting in the old groove so that grease was retained between the two. Still got a spare nylon bearing somewhere in my shed. ETA: I did turn a bottom bearing out of a piece of plastic bar stock and hammered it into the bottom cup, bedded in thick bitumastic, tiller then swivelled dead smooth, blob of K99 grease every 2 or 3 years when dry docked, though it didn't really need it. Edited July 5, 2019 by nb Innisfree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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