Liverpool Boats/handrails/age

[cuthound]

37 minutes ago, catweasel said:

Having had both types of handrail, I always feel that the tubular type are safer and more versatile.

 

Many moons ago I met a guy who had broken his wrist on the edge of the roof when he slipped off the gunwhale whilst holding on to a tubular handrail.

 

To me the best compromise is the solid handrail with a lip in the inner edge to provide something get hold of, rather than the completely square section solid handrails.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Many moons ago I met a guy who had broken his wrist on the edge of the roof when he slipped off the gunwhale whilst holding on to a tubular handrail.

 

To me the best compromise is the solid handrail with a lip in the inner edge to provide something get hold of, rather than the completely square section solid handrails.

Haven't seen one like that, but sounds safer than the traditional square ones on my boat.

[cuthound]

6 minutes ago, catweasel said:

Haven't seen one like that, but sounds safer than the traditional square ones on my boat.

 

Here is a photo of this type of handrail on my boat (Shell by Alexander).

 

I first saw thrm on a Graham Reeves shell.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

My Graham Reeves hull (1998) just had the 'square' section.

 

 

[cuthound]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

My Graham Reeves hull (1998) just had the 'square' section.

 

 

 

My last shareboat Honeystreet had the lipped handrails. She was built by Graham Reeves in 2002, so they have been around since at least then. Perhaps offered as n optional extra?

[mrsmelly]

18 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

My last shareboat Honeystreet had the lipped handrails. She was built by Graham Reeves in 2002, so they have been around since at least then. Perhaps offered as n optional extra?

I think all the major off the peg shell builders do them. My Ford mondeo shell ( colecraft ) has them. I still prefer proper tube ones though but dont walk along gunwhales ( why would you )

[cuthound]

18 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I think all the major off the peg shell builders do them. My Ford mondeo shell ( colecraft ) has them. I still prefer proper tube ones though but dont walk along gunwhales ( why would you )

 

I try to minimise my gunwhale walks, but have had to when:

 

a) Mooring in the marina at Llangollen, where the staging is only about 30 foot long and I need to bring the front line back to the to the staging after reversing in.

 

b) I have forgetten to take a centre line back to the helm and then need it when stopping at a lock etc.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

I try to minimise my gunwhale walks, but have had to when:

 

a) Mooring in the marina at Llangollen, where the staging is only about 30 foot long and I need to bring the front line back to the to the staging after reversing in.

 

b) I have forgetten to take a centre line back to the helm and then need it when stopping at a lock etc.

Yes yes of course, but I would never admit to such things innitt ?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

I try to minimise my gunwhale walks, but have had to when:

 

a) Mooring in the marina at Llangollen, where the staging is only about 30 foot long and I need to bring the front line back to the to the staging after reversing in.

 

b) I have forgetten to take a centre line back to the helm and then need it when stopping at a lock etc.

Not just me who does that then?

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Here is a photo of this type of handrail on my boat (Shell by Alexander).

 

I first saw thrm on a Graham Reeves shell.

 

 

These are an absolute bugger to sort once rust has set in underneath.

 I have seen 2 brand new Alexander shell narrowboats , both spray painted, in the last year with virtually no paint underneath the lip.(2 completely separate fitting companies). One of these will be a show boat at Crick!! 

What a small mirror shows you...

 

[cuthound]

3 minutes ago, matty40s said:

These are an absolute bugger to sort once rust has set in underneath.

 I have seen 2 brand new Alexander shell narrowboats , both spray painted, in the last year with virtually no paint underneath the lip.(2 completely separate fitting companies). One of these will be a show boat at Crick!! 

What a small mirror shows you...

 

 

No rust on mine but then I had an expert paint them for me ?

[matty40s]

25 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

No rust on mine but then I had an expert paint them for me ?

He didnt spray it either !!

[Ray T]

Here ya go cants and tubular handrails.

 

Leslie Berrage and family at Ellesmere Port 1954.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Ray T

[RAM]

Hi, I bought a Liverpool Boats cruiser stern shell in 1996 with tubular handrails and have always found them to be sound for tying centre ropes and fenders too. In the early days they did suffer from rust on the underside but after receiving proper treatment, no problems. I would say give them a good looking at, if this is possible, but I don't think that they should be of concern. Hope this helps.

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, catweasel said:

Haven't seen one like that, but sounds safer than the traditional square ones on my boat.

Our last boat had a rod welded to the inside edge of the square section for just this purpose. Alas, the attempt then to fill in the gap between round and flat was less successful and a perennial problem with rust!

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Our last boat had a rod welded to the inside edge of the square section for just this purpose. Alas, the attempt then to fill in the gap between round and flat was less successful and a perennial problem with rust!

The other approach I have seen is to use C-section channel rather than square box section to make the handrail.  All the ones I have seen have been rusted quite severely inside the channel though, so it might not be a good idea!

 

They are much better handholds than the square box section rails though.  A decent open rail is quite high on my wishlist for the next boat, as we have them on this boat and on the previous one and use them a lot.

 

@mrsmelly isn't doing enough singlehanding if he's not walking the gunwales a lot.  I don't have him down as much of a roof scrambler either ...

 

Oy! Tim, do the Huddersfield Narrow.  The only way to do that is to stick your nose into the lock mouth or tail and walk down the gunwale to work the lock.  None of this fancy dropping off crew at lock landings thank-you-very-much!

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

The other approach I have seen is to use C-section channel rather than square box section to make the handrail.  All the ones I have seen have been rusted quite severely inside the channel though, so it might not be a good idea!

 

They are much better handholds than the square box section rails though.  A decent open rail is quite high on my wishlist for the next boat, as we have them on this boat and on the previous one and use them a lot.

 

@mrsmelly isn't doing enough singlehanding if he's not walking the gunwales a lot.  I don't have him down as much of a roof scrambler either ...

 

Oy! Tim, do the Huddersfield Narrow.  The only way to do that is to stick your nose into the lock mouth or tail and walk down the gunwale to work the lock.  None of this fancy dropping off crew at lock landings thank-you-very-much!

? What!! is that like using one of the winding thingies? Would I have to get off the boat?

[TheBiscuits]

20 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

? What!! is that like using one of the winding thingies? Would I have to get off the boat?

No, not like the going-round-a-bits.  Yes, you need to get off the boat and use your funny-spanner-thing! 

 

[dccruiser]

On 27/04/2019 at 12:02, AJR said:

Hi all, seen a Liverpool Boats 58' cruiser stern on-line. Quite interested but it's a long journey to view. Described in ad & by broker as 2006 build, has tubular handrails rather than integral, gutter-type ones fashioned from the cabin sides. I've browsed a lot of boats now & associate these kind of rails with much older boats. Also seen older LB cruisers with the more modern form of handrail. Am I being unnecessarily suspicious?

thanks

Alan

My boat is 1992 with tubular handrails (not a liverpool shell) but where i moor there are 2 liverpool shells both 2006 one with tubular handrails and one with cants .... personally as I am single crewed i wouldnt have anything else.

Rick

[dccruiser]

11 hours ago, Flyboy said:

In this case there should be a drain where the up sweep starts.  It would be a very poorly designed boat if it didn't.

A couple near where i used to moor had a lovely looking josher style hull with the upswept cabin roof and used to visit the boat for weekends from London, most of them taken up cleaing the puddles then monthly treating and repainting the area behind the cants where water collected ... eventually he had extra drains put in less than 3 inches from the existing ones ... when i posed the same question regarding how good the shell design was as the boat was only 3 years old, he had questioned the builder who said it was down to how the boat was ballasted and it didnt help that owner emptied the water tank and effectively winterised it as he wasnt there all the time ... the shell was built by a very highly regarded builder.

The upweep incidentally is on a curve so obviously if the lowest part of the curve isnt where the drain is in relation to the way the boat is ballasted front to back it will collect water.

Rick

[blackrose]

17 hours ago, Athy said:

and cants are in a majority on trad-stern craft. Someone will now step up and prove me utterly wrong.

 

Oh I think that's a bit harsh, some of them are ok. 

 

Sorry I thought you were spelling it with a  London accent and saying something else! ?

Edited April 29, 2019 by blackrose

[blackrose]

7 hours ago, matty40s said:

These are an absolute bugger to sort once rust has set in underneath.

 I have seen 2 brand new Alexander shell narrowboats , both spray painted, in the last year with virtually no paint underneath the lip.(2 completely separate fitting companies). One of these will be a show boat at Crick!! 

 

The boats you describe can't have been painted properly under there in the first place. I've done a lot of steel prep and wouldn't have any problem at all getting a wire wheel under the lip of the handrails shown in Cuthound's post and getting rid of any rust. I've prepped areas that have far worse access than that. 

[Athy]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Oh I think that's a bit harsh, some of them are ok. 

 

Sorry I thought you were spelling it with a  London accent and saying something else! ?

Tut tut Mr. Rose! 

Lest we forget, Trojan is a trad stern boat. Make of that what you will.

Perhaps I should have said "raised integral handrails".

[dccruiser]

11 minutes ago, Athy said:

Tut tut Mr. Rose! 

Lest we forget, Trojan is a trad stern boat. Make of that what you will.

Perhaps I should have said "raised integral handrails".

They make excellent batteries aswell !

 

Rick

 

[AJR]

Looked at some boats over the weekend & found as someone suggested that LB boats around that age can have either. I've no strong preference myself, although rails might be handy for tying small grandchildren securely on top!