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Next time a C&RT employee is asked the question possibly they could use the following as a reply. The 1995 act requires that either a home mooring is available or that the boat be used “Bona Fide for Navigation”. The question then arises what does "Bona Fide" mean. A judge in one of the section 8 cases used the example of the Mersey Ferry. The ferry transports passengers from one side of the River Mersey to the other and back again. It only travels a relatively short distance each time. The purpose of the ferry is to move passengers, in order to do so it must navigate the river, therefore navigation is a necessary requirement for the ferry to perform its primary function and hence is “bona fide”. Now consider the case of the lady boater on the BBC 2 radio show. She, her husband and children live on a boat, it is used as far as we know as their main residence. Her husband needs to commute to his place of work and the children need to be taken to school, I do not recall if the lady herself worked. None of this activity requires movement of the boat, in fact movement of the boat is actually prejudicial to the activity. The purpose of the boat is accommodation therefore navigation is not a necessary requirement for the boat to perform its primary function. Their only reason for moving the boat is to try to comply with the terms of the 1995 act and hence is NOT “bona fide”. I’m not a lawyer but I would suggest that the above is a straightforward example of what “bona fide” means in practice and resolves the, how far do I need to move question, which C&RT cannot answer. Ken

To be honest, I would be wary of describing ANY ex working boat as that. Every ton of steel or iron in the construction is one ton less cargo it could carry on the same draught. They may look the part but steel thicknesses of 8mm and above in such boats is the stuff of dreams. George ex nb Alton retired

I think a probable difference is that it you buy a recently built second-hand boat from one of the more prestige builders like (say) Norton Canes, R W Davies or (grudging cough!) Steve Hudson, you know that no part (except possibly the engine!) is older than the build date. With the best will in the world, if you buy a conversion of an 80 year old working boat, some bits may be as new as in the modern boats listed above, but hopefully much of the visible bits will be 80 years old. At one end of the spectrum, some of the 80 year old bits will be almost as good as new, whereas at the other end they may have still been serviceable when last checked say 6 years ago, but it was anticipated that further work would be needed before long. In my (admittedly relatively limited) experience, however any such boat is actually marketed, most new owners will not be unsurprised if before long they are spending further money on a genuine historic, that they almost certainly would not be on an NC, RWD or SMH, (unless rivets needed gluing back on. of course). In our search for a full length converted historic, one of the best known surveyors suggested to be that unless a boat was truly exceptional, or particularly sought after because of an individual history, it is very very unlikely to be saleable at anything more than £70K tops, and usually the top price will be less than that. This was a bit of a reality check, because for most of is it means if we do manage to secure a boat needing work at say the £50K mark. if that work exceeds (say) £25K, we can more or less guarantee we are not going to ever get back what we spend. There are several nice looking full length converted boats on the open market right now, (although they contain different amounts of original boat) at asking prices above £65K, and all seem slow to find a buyer. At least one has been on so long that one imagines if it is to be sold the owner will need to take a significantly lower offer. I think most owners of historics know and accept this. Unlike former work colleagues I don't take frequent and highly expensive holidays abroad, (Ashes tours and safaris spring to mind), but I do spend a great deal owning two historic boats. That said I don't think my former colleagues understand why I find a week on the BCN a more exciting prospect than what they do. (Apologies for any typos, literally just back from shoulder surgery, andone arm currently completely out of use!.......)

This isn't quite the same as competent journalism so I don't see that any apologies are required. Correct me if my understanding of what happened is mistaken but it seems to me that whilst leaving the Southville Centre on 4th February (taken rather a long time to feel insulted by it ) Yaz Brien claims to have overheard Symonds making the alleged comments. He in turn has then passed on these comments to an unidentified third party who has then constructed the article on the 'strength' of them. Following denials in the Twittersphere Brien has then emerged to claim that he was the one who overheard the comments but has no idea who published the story but is 'disappointed' with Symonds. If it were an example of competent journalism the 'unidentified third party' who published the article should have been the one to confront Symonds about it before publishing and then reported both the allegation and Symonds response (or lack of). Given that the alleged incident is now three months old the publisher could even have thought about getting some corroboration to the allegation of Brien, I'm sure that he could remember one or two other people at the event. Why he/she hasn't done that only they will know. It seems to me that the whole purpose of the exercise was to generate a Twitterstorm, an intent that seems to have been largely successful.

To be honest I never really took much interest in the London Mayoral election as it has no effect on me at all, but seeing the way it is panning out I rather hope that Goldsmith isn't just beaten, but humiliated

It's 12 years before you can apply for adverse possession, the owner is informed (if they ar known) and they have the opportunity to object..

I agree - laminated wooden worktops and carpet-tile floor covering (removable for washing) for us. But there's obviously a market for that sophisticated level of fit-out, otherwise the builders wouldn't keep installing them.

Is it not the Anderton services which have had a blanket pushed into them? haggis

You miss the point. The 'capacity' problem is that the tank buried under it will have a fixed volume of perhaps three or four cubic metres. When it approaches full, the contents of a cassette being emptied into it will be roughly contained in the funnel so it is obvious it can no longer be used. Self-pumping out a cubic metre of effluent from your boat tank into a four cubic metre elsan tank that is nearly full and soon to be pumped out itself, leads to 0.5 cubic metres of your effluent on the floor of the elsan, unless you monitor the end of the pipe ALL the time (which evidence shows some boaters don't).

It is wrong. I appreciate that self pump-out saves money in the long run and that there are more Elsan points than pump-out machines ... but that doesn't make it right. Elsan points are for cassette (or bucket!!!) disposal. They often cannot cope with the one-dump (pardon the pun) volume of a self pump-out all at once, and the proponents of self pump-out don't have a perfect track record of leaving Elsan points spotlessly clean. CaRT put it succinctly: "What you must never do is to use a free-standing pump to pump out your tank into an Elsan disposal point – these simply don’t have the capacity and there’s a high risk of spillage. Pollution of the canalside with raw sewage would be a very serious offence as well as a health hazard." Source.

It appears to be yes.

Yes - indeed it is the original route connecting the canal to the Thames. I would suggest that, while the boat is being worked through the lock, you go for a brief explore by foot to see where you need to steer. If there's a decent current in the stream that runs parallel to the canal, then the right turn into the Sheepwash channel (which goes under the railway) can require a bit of effort. If you have crew then put them on the sharp end to act as a lookout as you emerge onto the main channel - the river is quite narrow at that point (as much of the flow is carried by non-navigable backwaters). L Isis Lock D Dead end down to Hythe Bridge St C Castle Mill Stream (not navigable) S Sheepwash channel T Thames - Osney bridge just downstream.

A first class lesson in the reasons NOT to fit working equipment away in the back of cupboards. PUT IT WHERE IT IS ACCESSIBLE! I mention this about once a month on here, nobody pays any attention

I think a healthier approach and better boating philosophy would be "I am going to use my boat bona fide for navigation and not worry about CaRT" rather than "I am going to gather evidence ready for my confrontation and legal battle with CaRT". This forum is becoming a little dominated by those who have had battles with CaRT, but this is not representative of the real world. There is a lot of canal in Birmingham and so unless you choose to set up home in the Gas Street area you should be fine. ................Dave

Yes, it's an utterly ludicrous situation. CART bloke: "We require all CCers to move an acceptable distance". Boater: "O.K., and what is that distance?" CART bloke: "Oh ho ho ho, we can't tell you that because we don't know. But we'll let you know what isn't, later". Imagine if it had been, for example, a government spokesman on Kylevine's programme, and he was being asked about unemployment. Gov. Bod: "We have too many unemployed people in Britain". KV: "Oh yes? How many are there?" Gov. Bod: "Dunno. Even if I did know, I wouldn't tell you". This would not be likely to win the respect of listeners or to show the spokesman in a good light. Rather, it would suggest that he hadn't a clue.

It seems a little strange to first answer the question and then ask it. Some may seem this as a reflection of prejudice.

So this is someone who darent challenge the comments at the time but prefers to leak smear stories to the press?

you want to be a CCer? ....... then get out and cruise, continuously. you want to be a CMer? ........ then get a mooring absolutely. If people say that they would like to enjoy life on the water, but live close to the facilities, there may be a market for the conversion of gravel pits and raw water reservoirs into houseboating estates, or the creation of new lakes for that purpose. We would soon find out the economic price of creating and maintaining such facilities, that the CMers seem to want for next to nothing..

In years gone by I would have liked to have lived in places that I couldn't afford. So I didn't. If people living on boats want to live in the Bath area or London or any other area for that matter and can't find a residential mooring because there aren't any, or they can't afford a residential mooring, then the truth is that maybe a reassessment of their life style needs to be carried out. There are already moorings throughout the system where boats can be accommodated, why spend an enormous amount of money on widening canals to satisfy the few people who can't get their heads around what continual cruising really means. Martyn. Continual Leisure Cruiser. Do you need a permanant mooring in,say, Reading, Newbury, Banbury? You are not tied to any place in particular. Martyn

Agreed... 1) If you need to be near where you work and where your kids go to school, you almost certainly cannot be a continuous cruiser. The lady in question said that 10 miles would be too far to cycle, but she could use the car on the occasions they were moored near Bath because that's where her other half works. 10 miles wont be a large enough radius to be a continuous cruiser. 2) If you need a definition of how far you need to cruise to be a continuous cruiser, you almost certainly cant be a continuous cruiser.

Only if they were moaning and groaning all the time and going onto national radio pleading that CRT were making life difficult for them.

I find all this a little tiring. If you NEED to be in the vicinity of any town or city due to work or schooling can you really in all honesty be a Continual Cruiser? I think not. Full Stop.

The repeated pushing of the '' it's my home '' angle is starting to grate with me. This has no bearing whatsoever on anyone's failure to '' satisfy the board '' and is not a problem to lay at CaRT's door. If you have chosen to live on a boat ( like we have ), then that's your choice. If you choose to have children, fine. If you choose to also continuously cruise, that's fine too, provided that you actually want to cruise. It won't be easy, bearing in mind getting to work and getting the children to school from distant locations but it is possible,it just depends on how eager you are to cruise and how much you want children. If that sounds too much like hard work, then it's not for you. I don't want a definitive answer to '' how far is far enough '' thank you, so please stop asking the stupid question. Keith

Indeed I do - its come along way since I coded version 1.0 back in the early 1980s Don't forget that if data is missing then you can add it. There's long term plans to introduce "Pinch Points" but like enhanced POI (which I'm currently working on) its something that will need good data to make it work

So what? Hounslow is a dump anyway, plenty of people living in worse housing in that borough. People living in converted sheds & garages, people living in tents, people living in doorways. Don't be such a snob.

and surely somewhere to stable the horse, of an evening...

I have been self-pumping for about 5 years. I have only ever once made a mess, but because I keep checking my hose is secure in the Elsan it was only a small spill which I cleaned up before I left. I only ever P/O into an elsan on a main sewer, never into a tank. If I am not sure then I phone CRT and ask. Yet some people want to ban me from using a pumpout. Our Elsan at Thrupp is very beautiful as elsans go, but I still never understand how people emptying a porta potti can manage to splash sh*t 6 feet up the piggin' wall and, even though a brush is provided, never clean up after. So can we stop popping at Self P/Os. Some of the porta potti brigade are the most disgusting people I have ever come across traipsing their leaking boxes of sh*t across other peoples boats while the water tank is open. Given that thousands of people are killed on the roads every year I have to wonder why pump outs should be banned and not motor cars. Job done, so to speak.