BW Planning Application - Marsworth Yard demolition!

[hughc]

The HNBOC is rerporting that BW have applied for planning permission to demolish the buildings on the Marsworth yard and erect 14 houses. There has been no public or user group consultation. There is a link on the website to Aylesbury District Council. The application references are 09/01945/App and 09/01946/ACD. Objections need to be submitted before the 25th November. Regards, HughC.

[Bat & Frog]

Hi, sorry having trouble finding the link, can you add it, thanks

[Tim Lewis]

Hi, sorry having trouble finding the link, can you add it, thanks

 

http://eplanning.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/td...searchform.aspx

 

then enter application references 09/01945/APP and 09/01946/ACD.

 

Tim

[Derek R.]

News from Marsworth:

 

British Waterways' agents have applied for Conservation Area Consent to demolish all of the buildings at Marsworth Yard, and for Full Planning Permission to build 14 houses. There has apparently been neither consultation with the local or waterways communities, nor any publicity given to the plans.

 

[Quite how this has been achieved without breaching some rule I do not know. Perhaps they have transgressed, perhaps otherwise. ]

 

The plans seem to be contrary to the guidance which BW have recently published, jointly with English Heritage, on waterside development ("England's Historic Waterways: A working heritage - Promoting high quality waterside development") and their guidance to planners ("Waterways & Development Plans"). [These documents can be downloaded from BW's website.] The plans can be viewed on Aylesbury Vale District Council's planning website:

http://eplanning.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/td...searchform.aspx

and enter application references 09/01945/APP and 09/01946/ACD.

Objections may be submitted online by clicking the "Submit Comments" button after the application reference has been selected.

 

The warehouse (stated as a former Carpenters' Shop in the planning documents) and adjacent crane and wharf, whilst not listed, are an integral part of the overall scene which includes the adjacent lock and lock cottage, both of which are listed buildings, and are significant elements of the Conservation Area. However, the former concrete pile works (until recently leased to concrete slab manufacturers Fencrete), whilst of relevance to the history of the canal, have no heritage or conservation value.

 

Please note that, if you wish to submit an objection, this must be done by 25th November. THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW!

 

Derek, with acknowledgement to Richard Booth for the news.

[alan_fincher]

This is a second posting on this topic.

 

First one here.....

 

Previous post link

 

COULD MODS MERGE THREADS, PLEASE.

 

Having had a look at the Aylesbury Vale site that Tim posted a link to, I found the most depressing document was one from someone in a BW "heritage" department.

 

It describes why the former Carpenter's Shop is (in his view) no longer worth saving, because it has already been so trashed by modifications made to it over the years.

 

Philistines!

 

A significant point to boaters is that it looks like the current (much used) Elsan point, water point, and rubbish facilities would be lost as part of this plan.

 

That would mean (I think) nearest Elsan going North is not until Leighton Buzzard - hardly ideal.

Edited November 23, 2009 by alan_fincher

[bottle]

An observation, the elsan disposal point is included within the perimeter of the proposed plans, although not marked for demolition, they do appear to be missing in all of the proposal plans.

 

The next facilities north should be Leighton Buzzard (9 miles and 11 locks) but they appeared closed, all signage removed, the last time we were there, the next north are at Fenny Stratford (15 miles and 16 locks) and south the ones at Cowroast (5 miles and 7 locks).

[Pluto]

I have commented that this type of warehouse, together with its associated crane, is just the sort of group which are disappearing, or at least losing their historical context, as our canalside buildings are being sold off without a thought for future usage. The buildings at Marsworth would make an ideal visitor or volunteer centre should BW convert to the sort of trust they are currently proposing. To sell off such buildings just confirms that BW management has no real long-term policy and are just reacting to current financial problems without a real thought for the future.

 

Having had a look at the Aylesbury Vale site that Ti,m posteda link to, I found the most depressing document was one from someone in a BW "heritage" department.

 

It describes why the former Carpenter's Shop is (in his view) no longer worth saving, because it has already been so trashed by modifications made to it over the years.

 

Philistines!

Its not the BW heritage department, but a large consultancy based in Derby. The 'experts' of such consultancies often know little about canals and can be unsympathetic in their assessments because of that. Some get a bit shy when you point out that they have mis-interpreted structures, though there are others who are open to criticism and like to learn. I don't know who was involved here, but the heritage interpretation seems a little basic to me, without any in-depth knowledge.

[Lesd]

I would imagine loosing the facilities here is going to be a major pain for many local boaters especially those boaters paying sky high rates for the nearby moorings, they have a very long trip for water if they loose the facility here as part of this development. I've made comment on the planners web site link.

Les

[tomsk]

I have commented that this type of warehouse, together with its associated crane, is just the sort of group which are disappearing, or at least losing their historical context, as our canalside buildings are being sold off without a thought for future usage. The buildings at Marsworth would make an ideal visitor or volunteer centre should BW convert to the sort of trust they are currently proposing. To sell off such buildings just confirms that BW management has no real long-term policy and are just reacting to current financial problems without a real thought for the future.

 

 

Its not the BW heritage department, but a large consultancy based in Derby. The 'experts' of such consultancies often know little about canals and can be unsympathetic in their assessments because of that. Some get a bit shy when you point out that they have mis-interpreted structures, though there are others who are open to criticism and like to learn. I don't know who was involved here, but the heritage interpretation seems a little basic to me, without any in-depth knowledge.

 

 

I would imaging most of BW's core policy is formulated by faceless consultants.

[gralyn]

Looks like Marple Yard all over again. I am now becoming convinced that BW are trying to cut cost by removing water and elsan/pumpout facilities. Now to my knowledge we have :-

 

Water at the top of Tyrley Locks (been closed for ? about 2 Years (awaiting a solution to supply Issues)

BW Yard Marple site to become housing.

Sewage and water facilities on R Severn ( tanks not double skinned on floating Facilities) I was told that existing facilities were double skinned but may need repair so removed before problem occoured.

Now Marsworth site to become housing.

 

The common thread when concerned groups ask BW about the facilities being replaced is " Go to the local boatyard and Pay".

 

Do Members of this forum know of any other water /elsan disposal points under threat?. It may be worth getting a list up and asking BW to go public on what they seem to be doing in the background.

Further

Should I expect a reduction in my license fee or at least a freeze in increases due to these savings or are BW once again squeezing boaters to solve their deficit problems. If this is the case we should start a campaign to get some Creative Management in BW rather than the NO BRAINERS they have at the moment.

Rant Over.

Edited November 23, 2009 by gralyn

[tomsk]

Looks like Marple Yard all over again. I am now becoming convinced that BW are trying to cut cost by removing water and elsan/pumpout facilities. Now to my knowledge we have :-

 

Water at the top of Tyrley Locks (been closed for ? about 2 Years (awaiting a solution to supply Issues)

BW Yard Marple site to become housing.

Sewage and water facilities on R Severn ( tanks not double skinned on floating Facilities) I was told that existing facilities were double skinned but may need repair so removed before problem occoured.

Now Marsworth site to become housing.

 

The common thread when concerned groups ask BW about the facilities being replaced is " Go to the local boatyard and Pay".

 

Do Members of this forum know of any other water /elsan disposal points under threat?. It may be worth getting a list up and asking BW to go public on what they seem to be doing in the background.

Further

Should I expect a reduction in my license fee or at least a freeze in increases due to these savings or are BW once again squeezing boaters to solve their deficit problems. If this is the case we should start a campaign to get some Creative Management in BW rather than the NO BRAINERS they have at the moment.

Rant Over.

 

 

Welcome to the Wonderful World of BW....... Do yourself a favour and get on EA waters.

[johnjo]

Looks like Marple Yard all over again. I am now becoming convinced that BW are trying to cut cost by removing water and elsan/pumpout facilities. Now to my knowledge we have :-

 

Water at the top of Tyrley Locks (been closed for ? about 2 Years (awaiting a solution to supply Issues)

BW Yard Marple site to become housing.

Sewage and water facilities on R Severn ( tanks not double skinned on floating Facilities) I was told that existing facilities were double skinned but may need repair so removed before problem occoured.

Now Marsworth site to become housing.

 

The common thread when concerned groups ask BW about the facilities being replaced is " Go to the local boatyard and Pay".

 

Do Members of this forum know of any other water /elsan disposal points under threat?. It may be worth getting a list up and asking BW to go public on what they seem to be doing in the background.

Further

Should I expect a reduction in my license fee or at least a freeze in increases due to these savings or are BW once again squeezing boaters to solve their deficit problems. If this is the case we should start a campaign to get some Creative Management in BW rather than the NO BRAINERS they have at the moment.

Rant Over.

 

This deserves a new thread, more informative than a rant.

[Guest User]

It occurs to me, being in a cynical frame of mind (must be the windy weather), that it might be easier to obtain permission for demolition with just a bald consultant's report, and before going to public consultation ....

 

Of course, if pressed, this could be just explained away as; exploring the options in advance of consultation. However, it would also have the added bonus once the appropriate demolition permission is obtained of making it far more attractive to a prospective developer. Then in turn, at public consultation it becomes possible to say; look here's a piece of redundant good-for-nothing land, we need cash fast, and we've got a developer lined up willing to pay £xxx for it. Which is a far more persuasive argument than; we think we could probably sell this site IF we get demolition permission but, uh oh, we've got the heritage-huggers protesting about our intended disposal of this site and getting permission is now looking less likely because of the protest.

[Lady Muck]

Topics merged

 

Do Members of this forum know of any other water /elsan disposal points under threat?. It may be worth getting a list up and asking BW to go public on what they seem to be doing in the background.

 

Yes I do - we have one that was taken out of service on the Lee, (dodgy circumstances IMO), there is another one in the marina another half hour up the River but there is a charge to use it.

[Big John]

NABO has been pressing BW on the topic of facility gap analysis for some time. After a long silence BW (SA) has invited NABO to do the analysis! i.e. instead of doing their job, ask volunteers - the new BW method.

With the large number of "consultations" BW are churning out at the moment, and other important issues, it's debatable whether or not NABO Council has the resources to do this.

However this would be a valuable exercise.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Big John

[Derek R.]

See case file HERE

 

There has to date been several written objection as logged on the Council website, and others are being advanced.

There is a correspondence from the Clerk to Marsworth Parish Council dated the 10th Nov. requesting a full discussion at a meeting held on 14th December 2009, as plans had not been received in time for a full discussion to be held on the 9th Nov., though it does appear the Parish Council are realising, and possibly may accept four or five dwellings as inevitable.

 

The Case Officer, a Mark Aughterlony, states notices were posted at six points on and around the site on 4th Nov. (File Note shows where). Expiry of site publicity - 25th Nov. Date of publication in the press - 10th Nov.

 

I would encourage the reading of the 'Heritage Assessment' document. It describes a "triangular pound lock". This would almost certainly be a side pond used twixt the upper and lower chambers of the riser.

There is also a nice 1935 postcard in sepia from a written representation from the Local Historic Archivist.

 

The conclusion of the Heritage Assessment document suggests retention of the crane and the wharf edge. All other buildings as presently exist will be demolished. Note: In all the associated 'drawings' of a finished development, no crane, nor 'wharf edge' are seen.

 

In the Conservation Area Consent Statement, P4 2.4 lends a clue to a possible desire to be finished with the site by BW, in that any possible future use of the site and its current buildings as a fallback position to a failed redevelopment option, there would be no control over use of the site.

 

The appraisal does not identify the existing wharf building as locally important. The unfortunate appearance of the old warehouse is I feel down to a succession of refurbishments and additions carried out with little consideration to its former purpose and appearance. Its 'Achilles Heel' is also the claim that as it is not constructed of local stone, it may not warrant historic status. This is generally born out and supported by Peter Chowns, Heritage and Environment Manager, South East Waterways.

 

What I find disappointing, is that seemingly no alternative to residential use is being considered. Not far from me there is a farm complex which has been turned into a thriving little retail outlet for a number of varied items; from stoves and hardware, to country produce and 'collectables', with a busy cafeteria. I don't know if the existing building at Marsworth would convert to such a use as a Tea shop, and a scattering of sensitively built units replace the pretty hideous concrete barns for other items. This would create some interest in Marsworth as a place to visit, sit by the canal, and maybe venture into the local Pubs. Or do Waterways just want a big buck payback and be done with it, and let the residents of Marsworth sort out the new house dwellers in their 'Monopoly Houses'?

 

My objection is in.

 

Derek

[O'Mali]

My immediate thoughts are…

 

1. Are the residents of the new properties going to object to the boaters smoke, engines or even personal appearance (except when their friends from Islington visit to view the culture) on what are very busy popular moorings which I think (I stand to be corrected) have winter moorings also.

 

2. What happened to the guy making all the nice iron work pieces?

 

3. One of the boats moored over there has a BW reg No. something like 000001 (give or take a zero) and I was under the impression the owner was someone “important” to one of the user groups?? Where will they go? Or will they be quietly sorted?

[Guest User]

My immediate thoughts are…

 

2. What happened to the guy making all the nice iron work pieces?

 

I think you're thinking of the old Bulbourne Workshops above Marsworth top Lock (before the Wendover Arm). The Marsworth Yard is at Church Lane Marsworth Buckinghamshire HP23 4LZ, Clicky

Edited November 23, 2009 by Graham!

[O'Mali]

I think you're thinking of the old Bulbourne Workshops above Marsworth top Lock (before the Wendover Arm). The Marsworth Yard is at Church Lane Marsworth Buckinghamshire HP23 4LZ, Clicky

Thank you Graham.

[Laurence Hogg]

PLEASE MAKE YOUR OBJECTIONS KNOWN TO THIS!

 

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:32:09 +0000

 

Dear all,

 

 

Apologies for the mass mailing but I know that all of you have boated to and through Marsworth. By accident I found out that the Marsworth yard is being sold and all buildings on the site demolished to build 14 houses. No idea where the large numbers of BW staff currently working out of the building are supposed to go. Also, and more importantly, from the plans it looks like we would lose the water, elsan and rubbish facilities for boaters with the nearest alternative being Cowroast (17 locks away) or the very inadequate Leighton Buzzard ( another lot of locks and distance away).

 

 

Think as many people as poss need to be mobilised to stop this. Trouble is, it's not been publicised much and objections need to be in the day after tomorrow i.e. 25th November. Really bad news for our heritage and our canal users, particularly boaters of all kinds who will lose water, elsan and rubbish facilities!

 

 

Please tell everyone and get your objections in. Link to planning app is below.

 

 

http://eplanning.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/td...searchform.aspx

 

then enter application references 09/01945/APP and 09/01946/ACD.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Laurence Hogg

[alan_fincher]

Laurence,

 

It is worth actually checking for existing posts on this kind of thing before starting another.

 

I have already had two deviating threads combined by the mods, and there is already a lively debate going on about this......

 

Here Link to existing thread

 

MODS: Can you do the honours again please ? Thanks!

Edited November 23, 2009 by alan_fincher

[sueb]

PLEASE MAKE YOUR OBJECTIONS KNOWN TO THIS!

 

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:32:09 +0000

 

Dear all,

 

 

Apologies for the mass mailing but I know that all of you have boated to and through Marsworth. By accident I found out that the Marsworth yard is being sold and all buildings on the site demolished to build 14 houses. No idea where the large numbers of BW staff currently working out of the building are supposed to go. Also, and more importantly, from the plans it looks like we would lose the water, elsan and rubbish facilities for boaters with the nearest alternative being Cowroast (17 locks away) or the very inadequate Leighton Buzzard ( another lot of locks and distance away).

 

 

Think as many people as poss need to be mobilised to stop this. Trouble is, it's not been publicised much and objections need to be in the day after tomorrow i.e. 25th November. Really bad news for our heritage and our canal users, particularly boaters of all kinds who will lose water, elsan and rubbish facilities!

 

 

Please tell everyone and get your objections in. Link to planning app is below.

 

 

 

 

 

http://eplanning.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/td...searchform.aspx

 

then enter application references 09/01945/APP and 09/01946/ACD

Sorry but link doesn't work for me

Sue

Edited November 24, 2009 by sueb

[Lady Muck]

Topics merged.

 

I've pinned this because we need as many boaters to see this as possible.

 

LM

 

ETA:

 

try this link in place of the broken one and then enter application references

 

You need to go to this page first and click on I accept

 

http://eplanning.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/ap...ing_details.htm

 

then go to application search on the left hand column and it will bring up the form.

 

then input the following codes 09/01945/APP and 09/01946/ACD.

 

 

then you can submit comments (tabs at top)

Edited November 23, 2009 by Lady Muck

[alan_fincher]

Sorry but link doesn't work for me

Sue

The one Tim Lewis posted in what is now post number 3 did earlier.

 

However the site no longer seems to want to respond.

 

Is that a way of stopping any online objections by the appointed date and time ?

[Lady Muck]

You need to go to this page first and click on I accept

 

http://eplanning.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/ap...ing_details.htm

 

then go to application search on the left hand column and it will bring up the form.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Lady Muck