Nasty incident on the Huddersfield

[Boaty Jo]

Thankfully nobody injured

 

http://www.towpathtalk.co.uk/news/stuck-fast-in-lock-9w

[mayalld]

Thankfully nobody injured

 

http://www.towpathtalk.co.uk/news/stuck-fast-in-lock-9w

 

Well, thats THREE boats that have had the same problem at this lock!

[John Williamson 1955]

Whatever happened to keeping an eye on the boat and just dropping the paddles before things get too bad if she gets caught on the sill?

 

I learnt that lesson in Denham Deep lock about thirty years ago....

 

Bye!

 

John.

[matty40s]

Whatever happened to keeping an eye on the boat and just dropping the paddles before things get too bad if she gets caught on the sill?

 

I learnt that lesson in Denham Deep lock about thirty years ago....

 

Bye!

 

John.

because that's not how it happens in this lock.

 

The boat is exiting the lock going up hill, probably has it's front ten feet over the cill and the amount of water going out of the bottom gates/paddles drains the lock and pound - grounding the boat on the cill and then emptying the lock. The only way you could possibly avert it would be to run up and flood the pound from the next lock up , hoping to refloat before the angle became to steep - however, with something allegedly being stuck in the paddle, this would probably not work.

[NickF]

Whatever happened to keeping an eye on the boat and just dropping the paddles before things get too bad if she gets caught on the sill?

 

I learnt that lesson in Denham Deep lock about thirty years ago....

 

Bye!

 

John.

I think the problem is dropping the paddles won't help if the top gate is open and the bottom one leaks like a sieve ...... hardly a freak accident as it is the third time it has happened on the HNC.

Nick

[nicknorman]

Nasty! Not being familiar with that lock, I presume the pound above is short and narrow? I suppose the only means of guarding against this is "situational awareness" in terms of noticing the slow filling of the lock and corresponding flow out of the bottom of the lock.

[Rod a mod from Tod]

Whatever happened to keeping an eye on the boat and just dropping the paddles before things get too bad if she gets caught on the sill?

 

I learnt that lesson in Denham Deep lock about thirty years ago....

 

Bye!

 

John.

How would that have helped in this case. They were halfway through leaving the lock. Did you read the piece or just look at the pretty pictures.

 

Bye indeed!

[Mac of Cygnet]

 

Well, thats THREE boats that have had the same problem at this lock!

 

Actually, I think the incident referred to by the OP happened back in August, and is the second at this lock. Another boat did sink at Lock 1W this year though, but that was "just" a cilling as most people think of it.

[Paul C]

Would be interesting if the lock was full when they opened the top gates and the jammed open paddle then drained it; or whether the only wasn't quite full to start with. But with a jam in the paddle, that's just a minor detail. Another 'safety' feature would be a clear white line marker on the paddle mechanism to show its fully closed position, some locks already have them and its such a boon to be able to look from a distance (ie while on the boat) to check paddles are really closed. But I appreciate its a difficult situation for a boater to deal with, and there's no real "blame" able to be attributed at this stage. Short pounds, variable state of paddle gear and leaky gates don't help either.

[nipper]

The problem is that water from the upper pound can't get passed the narrow boat as fast as its leaking out the bottom gates.

 

One would hope to get some warning from the length of time it takes to fill the lock and opening those gates must of been a tough job.

 

But i imagine it all happens so fast and thinking of what to do would of seemed like an age. Although there isn't that much one can do except perhaps try to get back into the lock and go down with the flow!

Hope not too much damage was done, but a crappy experience for anyone!

 

Nipper

[system 4-50]

because that's not how it happens in this lock.

 

The boat is exiting the lock going up hill, probably has it's front ten feet over the cill and the amount of water going out of the bottom gates/paddles drains the lock and pound - grounding the boat on the cill and then emptying the lock. The only way you could possibly avert it would be to run up and flood the pound from the next lock up , hoping to refloat before the angle became to steep - however, with something allegedly being stuck in the paddle, this would probably not work.

So to avoid this, the boater needs to consider 2 factors:

 

1. Have I got enough depth of water over the cill & into the pound to get at least 2/3 of the boat past the cill at normal speed

2. Is the water level in my filled lock dropping. Note that this can suddenly change if a bottom paddle fails.

 

The depth available needs to be enough to take the boat despite any fall in level as the exit is made.

 

The boater can see a falling level, that is not too difficult. But how does heshe know the available depth? Is there a case for some sort of level mark on every lock to give an idea of available depth?

 

Or am I seeing it wrong?

[Paul C]

The problem is that water from the upper pound can't get passed the narrow boat as fast as its leaking out the bottom gates.

 

One would hope to get some warning from the length of time it takes to fill the lock and opening those gates must of been a tough job.

 

But i imagine it all happens so fast and thinking of what to do would of seemed like an age. Although there isn't that much one can do except perhaps try to get back into the lock and go down with the flow!

Hope not too much damage was done, but a crappy experience for anyone!

 

Nipper

 

Agreed, and a factor is that narrowboats tend to be "wedge" shaped underwater, in that the bow is slightly higher than the stern, so as it goes over an underwater obstruction (such as a wooden lock cill), it will very gradually rise above its normal floating level to founder itself, often with no particularly unusual noises or odd feeling at the controls - it will simply feel a little bit sluggish, and gradually more so until it comes to a gentle stop.

So to avoid this, the boater needs to consider 2 factors:

 

1. Have I got enough depth of water over the cill & into the pound to get at least 2/3 of the boat past the cill at normal speed

2. Is the water level in my filled lock dropping. Note that this can suddenly change if a bottom paddle fails.

 

The depth available needs to be enough to take the boat despite any fall in level as the exit is made.

 

The boater can see a falling level, that is not too difficult. But how does heshe know the available depth? Is there a case for some sort of level mark on every lock to give an idea of available depth?

 

Or am I seeing it wrong?

 

 

I suggested the last time this type of incident occurred, to make a 'normal level' marking on the bottom gates of every lock, within easy sight of a narrowboat (controlled from its stern) steerer.

[Guest]

So to avoid this, the boater needs to consider 2 factors:

 

1. Have I got enough depth of water over the cill & into the pound to get at least 2/3 of the boat past the cill at normal speed

2. Is the water level in my filled lock dropping. Note that this can suddenly change if a bottom paddle fails.

 

The depth available needs to be enough to take the boat despite any fall in level as the exit is made.

 

The boater can see a falling level, that is not too difficult. But how does heshe know the available depth? Is there a case for some sort of level mark on every lock to give an idea of available depth?

 

Or am I seeing it wrong?

 

 

this was my suggestion too when this last happened as it seems a particular issue on the HNC

Edited November 4, 2013 by The Dog House

[Rufford]

I think the main question in such circumstances is 'Am I insured?' and 'Will they pay out?'

[Guest]

I think the main question in such circumstances is 'Am I insured?' and 'Will they pay out?'

 

One would hope so - and given this is not the first time it has happened it could be argued that the ins. co. could go on to claim their losses from the Trust.

[mayalld]

 

Actually, I think the incident referred to by the OP happened back in August, and is the second at this lock. Another boat did sink at Lock 1W this year though, but that was "just" a cilling as most people think of it.

 

You are correct, this is just the August sinking regurgitated (but that was itself the second sinking at 9W caused by leaking bottom gates).

 

http://waterwaynews.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/photograph-of-latest-huddersfield.html

[Boaty Jo]

Whatever the reason for this situation it does highlight the sense of proper planning and awareness wherever we cruise. Even the most benign-looking situation can deteriorate quickly.

As important as anything is a procedure for getting off the boat in an emergency.

This lady had a friend and dog with her and thankfully, by luck or design, they all got off safely.

[Keeping Up]

We nearly had it happen to us, further up at (IIRC) lock 26W on the Diggle flight in 2009

 

Luckily I noticed that the boat wasn't moving forwards as fast as it should have done, and thankfully by applying full reverse power I was just able to get back into the lock. I shut the top gates and the lock emptied itself.

 

When BW staff arrived, they wasted several minutes in instructing me how to go through a lock, then insisted on having another go. They refilled the lock, with an air of "that's how to do it", then instructed me to try full power forwards to see if the boat could get out of the lock. By now the pound had drained enough that the bows of the boat wouldn't have cleared the cill even if I had tried it, so we emptied the lock and I reversed back down to the bottom of the flight.

 

The found that the support cage for one bottom paddle had completely fallen to pieces. To their credit they reassembled all the pieces so we could go up the flight the next day.

[nb Innisfree]

Exiting a lock uphill is potentially as risky as going downhill, not often recognised as such, don't attempt to enter or exit a full lock until you're certain there is sufficient depth of water over the top cill. Carry some sort of depth gauge to make sure if in doubt.

Edited November 4, 2013 by nb Innisfree

[Guest]

Exiting a lock uphill is potentially as risky as going downhill, not often recognised as such, don't attempt to enter or exit a full lock until you're certain there is sufficient depth of water over the top cill. Carry some sort of depth gauge to make sure if in doubt.

 

Strikes me though that at these particular locations the lock is emptying so fast behind you that by the time you've hopped off the boat to check the depth and got back on you could still risk grounding.

[Neil2]

Exiting a lock uphill is potentially as risky as going downhill, not often recognised as such, don't attempt to enter or exit a full lock until you're certain there is sufficient depth of water over the top cill. Carry some sort of depth gauge to make sure if in doubt.

There but for the grace of God - when we did the HNC a few years ago we met a couple who had had the devil of a job getting out of a lock so we realised straight away there was an issue here and I checked the depth to the cill on each exit and entry.

 

What still puzzles me about this incident though is with a lock leaking so badly how did she get the top gates to open? This is a familiar problem on the HNC, where the bottom gates leak so badly you can't get a level.

[PhilR]

Whatever the reason for this situation it does highlight the sense of proper planning and awareness wherever we cruise. Even the most benign-looking situation can deteriorate quickly.

As important as anything is a procedure for getting off the boat in an emergency.

This lady had a friend and dog with her and thankfully, by luck or design, they all got off safely.

 

Yes I agree.

 

We don't know all the facts from the report, but I was pleased to hear that everyone got off safely and the lady praised her insurance company.

My insurance renewal with the same company is due in 3 weeks time ..................

[nb Innisfree]

 

Strikes me though that at these particular locations the lock is emptying so fast behind you that by the time you've hopped off the boat to check the depth and got back on you could still risk grounding.

If it's that bad then decide with someone else what a safe gauge will be then let them gauge it immediately before you exit, or don't attempt to leave the lock. If the top pound is full then it will be safe. It really is too risky to take any chances, once you are caught on the cill you are at the mercy of fate.

[Guest]

If it's that bad then decide with someone else what a safe gauge will be then let them gauge it immediately before you exit, or don't attempt to leave the lock. If the top pound is full then it will be safe. It really is too risky to take any chances, once you are caught on the cill you are at the mercy of fate.

 

I agree - except in this particular accident I read it that the boater was single handed (apart from her dog), so would have to rely on somebody inexperienced such as a passing walker.

 

The bottom line really is that if there is a problem with these particular locks then they should be prioritised for repair before somebody is seriously injured or worse.

[nb Innisfree]

There but for the grace of God - when we did the HNC a few years ago we met a couple who had had the devil of a job getting out of a lock so we realised straight away there was an issue here and I checked the depth to the cill on each exit and entry.

 

I've took a chance before and when I think about it I come out in a cold sweat, when you think about what could happen in a seemingly minor situation it does put things in perspective.