Advice Please On Toilets and baths

[WotEver]

9 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

can I ask what size bath you have is a normal size,  we have a decent sized bathroom so can fit a standard bath with a shower over which I do think would work well but is there any special fittings that you need for the bath instead of the normal drain as I would really just like to get a standard steel bath from say B & Q or something like that rather than having to go down the route of chandlers,  and a good shower.  

The bath can be any old bath that you fancy (that will fit). It may well come with a trap - throw that away. You simply need a low profile connector that takes the waste away at 90 degrees to the waste hole; no trap required. That’s then connected to a Whale Gulper which should be fitted somewhere accessible (inside a cupboard or behind a removable panel). 

[Dr Bob]

14 minutes ago, WotEver said:

The bath can be any old bath that you fancy (that will fit). It may well come with a trap - throw that away. You simply need a low profile connector that takes the waste away at 90 degrees to the waste hole; no trap required. That’s then connected to a Whale Gulper which should be fitted somewhere accessible (inside a cupboard or behind a removable panel). 

Absolutely. Make sure the gulper is accessible and can be swapped out easily by yourself, then buy a spare!

[Peter009]

8 hours ago, WotEver said:

The bath can be any old bath that you fancy (that will fit). It may well come with a trap - throw that away. You simply need a low profile connector that takes the waste away at 90 degrees to the waste hole; no trap required. That’s then connected to a Whale Gulper which should be fitted somewhere accessible (inside a cupboard or behind a removable panel). 

Thanks for that everything is becoming a lot clearer now, I saw somewhere that people line their walls of the bathroom with fibreglass to prevent damp can anyone confirm this is the right solution currently we have no walls in the bathroom just struts but will be sorting that out soon wondering what the best lining for the walls is before putting tiles on is it fibreglass and if so what product do most people use thanks again

[Peter009]

20 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Thanks for that everything is becoming a lot clearer now, I saw somewhere that people line their walls of the bathroom with fibreglass to prevent damp can anyone confirm this is the right solution currently we have no walls in the bathroom just struts but will be sorting that out soon wondering what the best lining for the walls is before putting tiles on is it fibreglass and if so what product do most people use thanks again

Also can you recommend a decent shower over bath, I am guessing electric showers are a not a good idea but may be wrong I want to get the equipment as soon as possible now so we can get on with this next week I dont know much about what showers are used in canalboats but is there a widely used system that people go for, we have 12V and 240V at this stage we have brought no water pumps or anything as that will be connected soon but all of these decisions re pumps etc that we use I guess impact the shower pressure sorry for the tons of questions recently on this forum you guys have been so helpful with all of this I cant say how much I appreciate this as we are in an area where this is limited knowledge so this forum is a godsend

[Dr Bob]

You don't need a power shower as the water pump pressure will provide the oooooomph in the shower head. We ......and I guess a lot of others ........ use a Jabsco Parma 2.9 water pump which is cheap and good value. Again put it somewhere easy to get at and buy a spare. Put a 10l accumulator in line. Someone will be along in a minute with a pipe diagram. Use decent switches to switch the water pump circuit on and off i.e. when you leave the boat, as low current ones burn out. Put in a few switches, i.e. one near the back of the boat to turn the circuit off when you leave and one near the water pump so you can do maintenance easier. The pump has its own pressure switch to operate when the pressure in the system drops i.e. when you open a tap.

Not a clue how to plumb in the cauliflower......someone else will have to answer that.

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, Peter009 said:

I am guessing electric showers are a not a good idea 

You guess right. They are a non-starter unless you have a widebeam with a 10kVA generator installed. 

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, WotEver said:

You guess right. They are a non-starter unless you have a widebeam with a 10kVA generator installed. 

We had someone on our Static caravan Park install a new shower - late at night and a knock at the door - "the electric has gone off", reset it and a bit later knock at the door again …………...

 

Investigation showed they had installed an 11Kw electric shower and as we only provide a 16 amp supply it was 'popping' every time they turned it on.

Told them to remove it and just use the Morco.

[Dyertribe]

Just wondering regarding your wife having arthritis in her hips and the advisability of a bath with a shower over. My husband has has arthritis since he was 25 and now at 50+ is waiting for a hip replacement. He finds getting in and out of a conventional bath both awkward and painful and if this was the set up at home we would have removed the bath fir a low profile shower some time ago. As it is he just grins and bears it in hotels etc. The possibility of falling getting in and out of a bath especially in the confines of a narrowboat bathroom should be considered too. 

[NigelMoore]

22 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Understood, but I can not fit in a 4ft bath in the same amount of water as I use to have a quick shower unless getting my feet and arse wet constitutes having a bath, which I do not think it does.

Baths can have a small footprint yet still offer a good soak. Just make them deeper. With knees tucked up I can actually float in this. Shower head can be fixed above the body shower bars (with separate control), matching heated towel rail opposite -

 

 

Fully endorse the Baby Blake suggestion -

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by NigelMoore

[Boater Sam]

16 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

Baths can have a small footprint yet still offer a good soak. Just make them deeper. With knees tucked up I can actually float in this. Shower head can be fixed above the body shower bars (with separate control), matching heated towel rail opposite -

 

 

Fully endorse the Baby Blake suggestion -

 

Float? Archimedes, heard of him? Displacement = weight of floating body. 80kilos body weight = 80 litres of hot water. Absolute minimum.

More like 100 litres required.

I am right, not enough water, keep the coal in it, nice as it is.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

More like 100 litres required.

So with a 1000 litre tank you could use 100 litres per day cooking/ washing pots / making tea and have a very nice bath and then only need to fill up every 5 days.

Didn't the OP say he has a 1500 litre tank ?

[Boater Sam]

Bathing in cold water is not my idea of boating, neither is tying a water point up for 2 hours every 4 or 5 days. Its antisocial.

[peterboat]

14 hours ago, Peter009 said:

can I ask what size bath you have is a normal size,  we have a decent sized bathroom so can fit a standard bath with a shower over which I do think would work well but is there any special fittings that you need for the bath instead of the normal drain as I would really just like to get a standard steel bath from say B & Q or something like that rather than having to go down the route of chandlers,  and a good shower.  

Mine is a 1500mm long bath bought off ebay, its a quality one with non slip bottom, it has the normal plug hole in it and is adaptered down to the right size for a whale gulper pump, then out through the side 10 inches higher than the the waterline

5 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Thanks for that everything is becoming a lot clearer now, I saw somewhere that people line their walls of the bathroom with fibreglass to prevent damp can anyone confirm this is the right solution currently we have no walls in the bathroom just struts but will be sorting that out soon wondering what the best lining for the walls is before putting tiles on is it fibreglass and if so what product do most people use thanks again

Aquaboard for the walls is what I have 10 years old now still like new

[Dr Bob]

24 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Bathing in cold water is not my idea of boating, neither is tying a water point up for 2 hours every 4 or 5 days. Its antisocial.

Agreed. The drought this summer meant low water pressure at many water points. It's not so much the time you take at a water point as you plan your own time. It's other people who are inconvenienced. Wide beams get a lot of stick on the northern GU as it is without clogging up the waterpoints.

[NigelMoore]

42 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Float? Archimedes, heard of him? Displacement = weight of floating body. 80kilos body weight = 80 litres of hot water. Absolute minimum.

More like 100 litres required.

I am right, not enough water, keep the coal in it, nice as it is.

Archimedes? Nope, never heard of him – but he sounds all very technical and mathematical, so anything he posted here would doubtless be all Greek to me; I only know that I can float in that bath through experiencing it.

 

I suspect I replied to the wrong post – my apologies, I know your emphasis was on water usage, whereas I was addressing the perceived problem of having a good soak in a small bath, which was a requirement of the lady owner. Of course you use a fair bit of water – but that is not a problem for this narrowboat, nor is the hot water supply (from reasonable sized calorifier kept at a very hot temperature, so needs mixing with cold).

 

Personally, I agree with the benefits of a shower, but see no reason why alternative tastes cannot be accommodated if relevant supplies can be arranged. No need to forego desired luxuries in my opinion.

 

[NigelMoore]

5 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

You don't need a power shower as the water pump pressure will provide the oooooomph in the shower head.

Refitting another narrowboat last week, with installed Paloma instant gas heater, I found that existing water pressure/flow was insufficient to keep the gas burner alight. Discovered that Par Max now do a 5 gallons per minute pump, which has provided a genuine hot power-shower experience. Of course, it does use more water per shower, but well worth it.

Edited December 29, 2018 by NigelMoore

[Phil Ambrose]

32 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

Archimedes? Nope, never heard of him – but he sounds all very technical and mathematical, so anything he posted here would doubtless be all Greek to me; I only know that I can float in that bath through experiencing it.

 

I suspect I replied to the wrong post – my apologies, I know your emphasis was on water usage, whereas I was addressing the perceived problem of having a good soak in a small bath, which was a requirement of the lady owner. Of course you use a fair bit of water – but that is not a problem for this narrowboat, nor is the hot water supply (from reasonable sized calorifier kept at a very hot temperature, so needs mixing with cold).

 

Personally, I agree with the benefits of a shower, but see no reason why alternative tastes cannot be accommodated if relevant supplies can be arranged. No need to forego desired luxuries in my opinion.

 

Absolutely,  living aboard does not mean camping..

Phil

[ditchcrawler]

Water tanks are a bit like batteries on boats, You can have as much capacity as you have room for and can afford, but you still have to put back what you take out

[Robbo]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Water tanks are a bit like batteries on boats, You can have as much capacity as you have room for and can afford, but you still have to put back what you take out

Apart from batteries have a leak, rust quickly when not filled straight after you remove water from them, and when filling a good percentage of the water evaporates!

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

Apart from batteries have a leak, rust quickly when not filled straight after you remove water from them, and when filling a good percentage of the water evaporates!

And the filling orifice gets smaller and smaller as it fills.  

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

You don't need a power shower as the water pump pressure will provide the oooooomph in the shower head. We ......and I guess a lot of others ........ use a Jabsco Parma 2.9 water pump which is cheap and good value. Again put it somewhere easy to get at and buy a spare. Put a 10l accumulator in line. Someone will be along in a minute with a pipe diagram. Use decent switches to switch the water pump circuit on and off i.e. when you leave the boat, as low current ones burn out. Put in a few switches, i.e. one near the back of the boat to turn the circuit off when you leave and one near the water pump so you can do maintenance easier. The pump has its own pressure switch to operate when the pressure in the system drops i.e. when you open a tap.

Not a clue how to plumb in the cauliflower......someone else will have to answer that.

 

This from Surecal show how to plumb a clarified.

 

http://www.surejust.co.uk/surecal-vertical-calorifier-connection-instructions

 

There calorifiers come with a thermostatic mixer valve on top. Not only does this prevent anyone getting scolded by water heated to 70-80°C, but it makes the hot water go further by mixing it with cold and enables a cheaper shower without thermostatic control to be fitted.

Edited December 29, 2018 by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect.

[Peter009]

32 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

This from Surecal show how to plumb a clarified.

 

http://www.surejust.co.uk/surecal-vertical-calorifier-connection-instructions

 

There calorifier come with a thermostatic mixer valve on tip. Not only does this prevent anyone getting scolded by water heated to 70-80°C, but it makes the hot water go further by mixing it with cold and enables a cheaper showed without thermostatic control to be fitted.

This is the calorifier that we have got we only got a 55L unfortunately but should be OK for now may get another one later on 

[Boater Sam]

Using two calorifiers on one hot water system is fraught with difficulties unless you valve them separately and use one at a time. Connecting them in parallel makes it difficult to balance the flow from each, connecting in series it is difficult to arrange the separate unequal heating unless using immersion heaters.

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Using two calorifiers on one hot water system is fraught with difficulties unless you valve them separately and use one at a time. Connecting them in parallel makes it difficult to balance the flow from each, connecting in series it is difficult to arrange the separate unequal heating unless using immersion heaters.

I think I would series them up and the heating coils as well, so the engine water went to the last cylinder in the domestic line first and then through the first in the domestic line before returning to the engine. That way the cylinder nearest the tap should be hot first and if the heating is on long enough they should both be at the same temperature. This would take into account drawing a small amount of hot water off which would add cold to the bottom of the cylinder not going straight to the taps.

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think I would series them up and the heating coils as well, so the engine water went to the last cylinder in the domestic line first and then through the first in the domestic line before returning to the engine. That way the cylinder nearest the tap should be hot first and if the heating is on long enough they should both be at the same temperature. This would take into account drawing a small amount of hot water off which would add cold to the bottom of the cylinder not going straight to the taps.

Gosh, that makes a lot of sense!