Nelson end of an era

[Mike E-W]

The Admiral Nelson , Braunston, will change hand in three weeks time Mark  & team have sold to the Everards pub chain

 

Wish them well had some great meals , beers and all round good fun over the years

[alan_fincher]

I hope it can survive this.

 

After struggling for years beforehand the latest tea really has turned it around quite remarkably.

[Athy]

I hope they have sold it because they had built up the business and wanted to realise a profit, rather than because they had to.

It's in a great location and should continue to do well unless the next landlord is as clueless as the (admittedly pleasant) barmaids were last time we went in there. That was about 2 years ago, I seem to remember that we considered dining there but decided not to because the meals were expensive, so we went back to the boat instead.

[mrsmelly]

21 minutes ago, Athy said:

I hope they have sold it because they had built up the business and wanted to realise a profit, rather than because they had to.

It's in a great location and should continue to do well unless the next landlord is as clueless as the (admittedly pleasant) barmaids were last time we went in there. That was about 2 years ago, I seem to remember that we considered dining there but decided not to because the meals were expensive, so we went back to the boat instead.

Athy old sport. The meals were not expensive. The overheads will be. The trouble I found over my years in the licensed trade/licenced cafe and cafe trade is that whilst many of my customers were on damn good salaries those same people expected cheap meals. Cheap meals means working for peanuts. Most publicans be they managed house, tenant, leaseholder or free trade worke their arses off doing twice the average weekly hours for about half the average wedge. So people in cushy salaried jobs with every evening and weekend off still expect everything cheap and sod the fact others are working for peanuts. Most Public house managers for instance turning in about 80 or 90 hours a week would kill for a schoolteachers salary and holiday entitlement. 

[Machpoint005]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Athy old sport. The meals were not expensive. The overheads will be. The trouble I found over my years in the licensed trade/licenced cafe and cafe trade is that whilst many of my customers were on damn good salaries those same people expected cheap meals. Cheap meals means working for peanuts. Most publicans be they managed house, tenant, leaseholder or free trade worke their arses off doing twice the average weekly hours for about half the average wedge. So people in cushy salaried jobs with every evening and weekend off still expect everything cheap and sod the fact others are working for peanuts. Most Public house managers for instance turning in about 80 or 90 hours a week would kill for a schoolteachers salary and holiday entitlement. 

 

I agree with (almost) every word, but let us not forget that a pub/restaurant is a business, pure and simple. Some business models work and are profitable. Some do not, and fail. The unfortunate fact is that the licensed trade can these days only attract customers who are reasonably affluent, so those customers are likely to be in "cushy salaried jobs" unless they are Hooray Henries or the exploitative rich.   

[Athy]

24 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Athy old sport. The meals were not expensive. The overheads will be. The trouble I found over my years in the licensed trade/licenced cafe and cafe trade is that whilst many of my customers were on damn good salaries those same people expected cheap meals. Cheap meals means working for peanuts. Most publicans be they managed house, tenant, leaseholder or free trade worke their arses off doing twice the average weekly hours for about half the average wedge. So people in cushy salaried jobs with every evening and weekend off still expect everything cheap and sod the fact others are working for peanuts. Most Public house managers for instance turning in about 80 or 90 hours a week would kill for a schoolteachers salary and holiday entitlement. 

Thank you for the lecture. I've been in a pub and in a restaurant before and know what sort of prices I expect to pay for a pint of beer, a plate of steak & chips or whatever. If I say that the meals seems expensive, I obviously mean compared with meals in other, similar pubs or restaurants. At the Admiral Nelson (though at two years' distance I can't recall any menu examples) that was the case.

 

I'm sure you knew that really.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Athy

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Athy said:

Thank you for the lecture. I've been in a pub and in a restaurant before and know what sort of prices I expect to pay for a pint of beer, a plate of steak & chips or whatever. If I say that the meals seems expensive, I obviously mean compared with meals in other, similar pubs or restaurants. At the Admiral nelson (though at two years' distance I can't recall any menu examples) that was the case.

 

I'm sure you knew that really.

Not a lecture old sport. Its realy true that many people dont understand prices have to be high to enable the landlord a reasonable lifestyle for the huge input involved. It is true to say that the most important jobs in our economy and the most skilled are the worst paid. Just as a for instance one of the most important jobs anyone can have and a lot of knowledge needed to do it properly is caring and the pay is down right dreadful as against many office staff type jobs for instance.

[Athy]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Not a lecture old sport. Its really true that many people don't understand prices have to be high.

But this people did, and does.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

But this people did, and does.

Im pleased to hear it, but I do wonder sometimes as I pass you boat with its unique colour scheme ?

[matty40s]

It certainly won't get any cheaper with Everards taking over, the pub will turn a horrible grey and off white colour however which justifies the price.

 

I would much rather pay for good food than eat the rubbish served at Marstons Braunston Boathouse and Weedons Heart of England - overpriced to pay for the 2 for 1 offer.

 

 

[Athy]

36 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Im pleased to hear it, but I do wonder sometimes as I pass you boat with its unique colour scheme ?

At last I can use this expression fully in context: What's that got to do with the price of fish?

Trojan's colour scheme is based on an old working boat livery.

 

[Machpoint005]

49 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Not a lecture old sport. Its realy true that many people dont understand prices have to be high to enable the landlord a reasonable lifestyle for the huge input involved. It is true to say that the most important jobs in our economy and the most skilled are the worst paid. Just as a for instance one of the most important jobs anyone can have and a lot of knowledge needed to do it properly is caring and the pay is down right dreadful as against many office staff type jobs for instance.

(for the avoidance of doubt, this is not ironically intended),

 

While caring is marketised, and a source of profit. it will stay like that I'm afraid.

[ditchcrawler]

I find it strange a pub chain buy a pub when lots are unloading them

[dmr]

Just arrived and tied up (yet again) opposite the Golden Lion in Todmorden. This pub was renovated/poshed up a while ago but that failed so was then taken over by a local Thai lady who had a Thai restaurant. She un-poshed the pub in a nicely Thai/bohemian sort of way and runs it a combined pub/Thai restaurant and music venue. A superb Thai meal can be had for about £7, there are 4 real ales starting at £3 (but sometimes £2 mid week) and the place is busy busy busy. Maybe a few other pubs could learn from this.

 

............Dave

[Athy]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I find it strange a pub chain buy a pub when lots are unloading them

Everard's obviously see it as a profitable venture. Good luck to them.

There are better ales than Everard's but there are also far worse ones.

[alan_fincher]

3 hours ago, Athy said:

It's in a great location and should continue to do well unless.........

It's in a great location, if it's the middle of summer, and you are a passing boater who wants a stroll up the locks for a pint and possibly a meal.

However to get there other than by canal it is at the end of some obscure lane, (track almost), from a minor village.

Outside of the popular boating periods it is never going to be swarming with canal related people, and I imagine the number of punters going there by car will often be pretty low out of season.

If I were going to try and run any pub, (not that I ever would), it certainly wouldn't be this one.

The prices were certainly higher than the nearby "opposition", bu as Matty suggests there was some justification for this.  The nearby "opposition" is often mediocre at best, and crap at worst.

It was also dog friendly, which the "opposition" was not - if it's new chain owners enforce a "no dogs in the bar" policy, it will certainly lose our trade.

[mrsmelly]

14 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I find it strange a pub chain buy a pub when lots are unloading them

The ones unloading are generaly pub co type chains that are run for the profit of inversters only. Such pub cos actualy usualy own nowt of any real worth. The huge difference when such as Everards buy a pub as with Wadworths for instance who I was a trainer manager for and who my son runs a pub for is they actualy care for and invest long term in their property portfolio and of even more importance is the fact they are brewers so the cost of the beer to each outlet is in effect subsidised by the breweries sales to third parties. The fact they brew their own beer and invest long term in their properties is key to their success.

[Athy]

9 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

It's in a great location, if it's the middle of summer, and you are a passing boater who wants a stroll up the locks for a pint and possibly a meal.

However to get there other than by canal it is at the end of some obscure lane, (track almost), from a minor village.

Outside of the popular boating periods it is never going to be swarming with canal related people, and I imagine the number of punters going there by car will often be pretty low out of season.

If I were going to try and run any pub, (not that I ever would), it certainly wouldn't be this one.

The prices were certainly higher than the nearby "opposition", bu as Matty suggests there was some justification for this.  The nearby "opposition" is often mediocre at best, and crap at worst.

It was also dog friendly, which the "opposition" was not - if it's new chain owners enforce a "no dogs in the bar" policy, it will certainly lose our trade.

I hear what you're saying, but I've seen plenty of cars going down the "obscure lane" (which I think is called Dark Lane), so it's obviously built a reputation which attracts local trade.

We are not dog owners but I quite agree with your comments about dogs in bars - in the pub which we use the most frequently at the moment, the Brasenose in Cropredy, they often seem to outnumber humans, and the two species co-exist happily, though the humans don't always get to eat the whole contents of their packets of crisps.

[Machpoint005]

20 minutes ago, Athy said:

Everard's obviously see it as a profitable venture. Good luck to them.

There are better ales than Everard's but there are also far worse ones.

As my Grandad used to say "there's no bad ales, it's just that some of 'em are better than t'others"

[David Schweizer]

5 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Athy old sport. The meals were not expensive. The overheads will be. The trouble I found over my years in the licensed trade/licenced cafe and cafe trade is that whilst many of my customers were on damn good salaries those same people expected cheap meals. Cheap meals means working for peanuts. Most publicans be they managed house, tenant, leaseholder or free trade worke their arses off doing twice the average weekly hours for about half the average wedge. So people in cushy salaried jobs with every evening and weekend off still expect everything cheap and sod the fact others are working for peanuts. Most Public house managers for instance turning in about 80 or 90 hours a week would kill for a schoolteachers salary and holiday entitlement. 

Really? The average income for a Pub Manager is £26,000 to £38000 pa. whereas the pay range for a qualified Teacher is £23,00 to £35,000 so slightly less than a Publican!

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Really? The average income for a Pub Manager is £26,000 to £38000 pa. whereas the pay range for a qualified Teacher is £23,00 to £35,000 so slightly less than a Publican!

And in far too many cases the actual ours worked are similar although the general public will never accept that or even want to know. Then how many pub managers are coerced into buying materials form their own pocket with which to run their businesses.

[Naughty Cal]

2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

It's in a great location, if it's the middle of summer, and you are a passing boater who wants a stroll up the locks for a pint and possibly a meal.

However to get there other than by canal it is at the end of some obscure lane, (track almost), from a minor village.

Outside of the popular boating periods it is never going to be swarming with canal related people, and I imagine the number of punters going there by car will often be pretty low out of season.

If I were going to try and run any pub, (not that I ever would), it certainly wouldn't be this one.

The prices were certainly higher than the nearby "opposition", bu as Matty suggests there was some justification for this.  The nearby "opposition" is often mediocre at best, and crap at worst.

It was also dog friendly, which the "opposition" was not - if it's new chain owners enforce a "no dogs in the bar" policy, it will certainly lose our trade.

If the pub is good enough people will go to it despite the drive to get to it.

 

One of our favourite pubs to visit when we are at home is The Strines Inn. It is miles and miles away from any civilisation. You have to drive to get there. Yet we went on Wednesday evening after work and the place was packed. The Strines is also a good example of how good food does not have to be expensive. 

 

Liam had a mixed grill, I had a huge homemade Yorkshire pudding loaded up with roast beef , gravy and vegetables and we both had a couple of drinks and a coffee each and the bill was £35. 

 

The Pyewipe close to our mooring is another example of a pub you have to drive too, unless you have a boat. Yet that is always busy and you can't get a Sunday lunch for love nor money.

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

As my Grandad used to say "there's no bad ales, it's just that some of 'em are better than t'others"

I don't want to diss your Grandad, but he obviously never tried a pint of Star Light in Plymouth in the 70s!

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

I hear what you're saying, but I've seen plenty of cars going down the "obscure lane" (which I think is called Dark Lane), so it's obviously built a reputation which attracts local trade.

We are not dog owners but I quite agree with your comments about dogs in bars - in the pub which we use the most frequently at the moment, the Brasenose in Cropredy, they often seem to outnumber humans, and the two species co-exist happily, though the humans don't always get to eat the whole contents of their packets of crisps.

Sydney has come to expect a share of tge pork scratchings nowadays!

[mrsmelly]

22 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Really? The average income for a Pub Manager is £26,000 to £38000 pa. whereas the pay range for a qualified Teacher is £23,00 to £35,000 so slightly less than a Publican!

The pub manager does double the hours and often their other half is included in that salary number. They dont go home at 5 each afternoon after they have worked all that day they simply do another seven hours on top of it. They dont say I arnt working weekends and if a key member of staff doesnt turn in cos little Johny is sick they simply forgo their day off and work on through not to mention christmas day etc etc. I fully understand both cushy easy hours jobs as I was a police ossifer who only worked part time, it was around 41 hours a week and later on went into the pub trade and understood very quickly that a 41 hour week is very very much part time. I then realy found out what long hours were when I went self employed in the pub game lol!!  The beauty of the pub game though in fairness is generaly speaking you meet people who are enjoying their selves and if you prefer there is no poxy commuting though we deliberately did that.