Survey Recommendations

[WiseOwl]

Hi all,

 

I have just bought a 2005 57ft semi-trad narrowboat. This is a big ask... Can anyone go through the survey recommendations with me and advise what MUST be done. I am sure a lot of these recommendations will be fine untouched. This will most likely be work done by a maritime engineer. Ideally, I would sort everything on this list but I do not have the funds. Thank you.

 

1.2 Recommendations
* After careful preparations, the immersed plating should be blacked.
* Ensure a thorough and regular maintenance schedule is put into place. Consideration to grit blasting and the application of a good quality paint scheme should be given, such as epoxy. If this is carried out, the opportunity to plug weld pits at 1.5mm deep and deeper should be taken.
* Consider preparing and painting the bottom plate.
* Prepare and weld up the uxter plate chine that has been worn down where the rudder blade catches on full lock.
* Consider fitting amidships anodes, two each side. * Prepare and re-weld the stern post welds.

1.3 Recommendations
* Thoroughly prepare and paint the plating in the engine space.
* Remove the gas cylinders and all gear from the gas locker and thoroughly prepare the plating for close inspections and any necessary repairs or maintenance.
* Considering the water pump issue discussed later in the report, unscrew the sole panel just forward of the engine bulkhead. If water is present this should be dried, ventilated and monitored ongoing.
* Some opening up of cabin linings and sole is always recommended for inspection and maintenance purposes.

1.4 Recommendations
* Clear the blockages form the aft deck drain channels.

1.5 Recommendations
* Properly tighten and secure the propellers nut and split pin.

1.6 Recommendations
* Remove the matting from the forward deck sole. Thoroughly prepare the deck sole and adjacent lower side plating and repair or maintain as found required.

1.7 Recommendations
* Monitor the tilt panel windows and opening ports for leaks and repair/reseal if found required.
* Replace both glass panes in the forward cabin doors with safety glass.
* Monitor the lower forward edge of the side doors for leaks and repair if found present.

1.8 Recommendations
* Find the source of the leak which has caused the staining and softening to the cabin linings above the television and repair as found required.

2.0 Recommendations.
* Consider fitting an engine hour meter.
* An engineer must inspect the noise on gear engagement and make necessary repairs.
* Monitor the mounting arrangement for the Python Drive coupling and if any deterioration or movement is seen, alterations similar to original design will be required.
* Adjust or replace the engines Morse control type lever so it will hold engine speed.
* In the absence of a recent documented service a full service of the engine and ancillary equipment should be carried out in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations.

3.1 Recommendations.
* Terminal covers must be fitted to the forward most two batteries.

3.2 Recommendations.
* A cable gland must be fitted where the cable passes through the bottom of the aft deck locker base.

4.1 Recommendations.
* Determine why the water delivery pump cycled every minute or so and make necessary repairs as found required.

4.2 Recommendations.
* Repair the fuel leak by the tank outlet isolator.
* The entire stove installation must be fully renovated and the above listed defects rectified.
* Any appliance that burns fossil fuel can potentially emit carbon monoxide and as such a service now and annually is recommended for the stove.

4.3 Recommendations.
* Properly secure the gas cylinders in the gas locker.
* Replace the perished flexible gas pipe in the gas locker. It is likely to be leaking at this time.
* The gas regulator must be removed then securely refitted to the gas cylinder.
* The vents fitted in the forward and aft cabin bulkheads must have the internal cabin linings/fit out and any steel work altered so these vents can offer ventilation to the cabin.
* The final connection to the cooker must be made accessible.
* It is recommended that the gas installation including all appliances is fully serviced and a certificate of compliance issued annually. This should include ventilation calculations/requirements. All gas ‘work’ should be carried out by a Gas Safe engineer competent and qualified to work on small craft and the appliances fitted.

4.4 Recommendations.
* Ensure the bilge pump is permanently energised to the batteries and the float switch is replaced.
* Fit a gas alarm.

 

Cheers

Jamie
 

[rusty69]

I would personally make the same request to your surveyor,assuming you commissioned the survey of course.

 

MUST be done for what?

 

Insurance purposes

Boat safety certificate

Personal peace of mind.

 

Obviously anything that is likely to kill you or others should be tackled as a matter of urgency before using the affected system, i.e potential gas leaks, fuel leaks carbon monoxide leaks etc.

 

Followed by everything else.........

 

[Bee]

To be honest the best thing to do is have an informal chat with the surveyor.  As far as I can see every section is headed 'recomendations' so I'm not too sure what is vital to get the next boat safety cert, probably every item that mentions gas but I don't know about a gas cert of compliance to be issued annually , really?

     The stove stuff also, even if its not too bad whatever the recommendations I would do it just to avoid being dead.

Terminal covers are also important, batteries don't half make big sparks if they short!

The fuel leak needs sorting

The cable gland likewise

That's what I would do as sensible stuff, there are other things that are a cheap DIY fix. The ventilation part is still a DIY fix but more tricky

I am not sure about the need for midships anodes, personally I wouldn't bother

I wouldn't bother with safety glass in the door either but its probably a good idea if you have kids on board

Propellers are expensive, take the splitpin out, tighten the nut and replace the splitpin. should be possible through the weedhatch and its character building!

If you work through that list and do as much as possible yourself you will know your boat very much better and save a few quid.

[Machpoint005]

2 hours ago, WiseOwl said:

Hi all,

 

I have just bought a 2005 57ft semi-trad narrowboat. This is a big ask... Can anyone go through the survey recommendations with me and advise what MUST be done. I am sure a lot of these recommendations will be fine untouched. This will most likely be work done by a maritime engineer. Ideally, I would sort everything on this list but I do not have the funds. Thank you.

 

1.2 Recommendations
* After careful preparations, the immersed plating should be blacked. not urgent - do it at next haul-out
* Ensure a thorough and regular maintenance schedule is put into place. Consideration to grit blasting and the application of a good quality paint scheme should be given, such as epoxy. If this is carried out, the opportunity to plug weld pits at 1.5mm deep and deeper should be taken.not urgent - do it at next haul-out
* Consider preparing and painting the bottom plate. waste of time and money IMHO
* Prepare and weld up the uxter plate chine that has been worn down where the rudder blade catches on full lock. needs further inspection but likely to be another "next haul-out" item
* Consider fitting amidships anodes, two each side. * Prepare and re-weld the stern post welds.Next haul out, but it can be impossible to find a location where they won't get knocked off in an argument with a bridge or lock wall.

1.3 Recommendations
* Thoroughly prepare and paint the plating in the engine space. DIY job
* Remove the gas cylinders and all gear from the gas locker and thoroughly prepare the plating for close inspections and any necessary repairs or maintenance. DIY job
* Considering the water pump issue discussed later in the report, unscrew the sole panel just forward of the engine bulkhead. If water is present this should be dried, ventilated and monitored ongoing. Depends what the "issue discussed later" is, but probably another DIY job
* Some opening up of cabin linings and sole is always recommended for inspection and maintenance purposes.

1.4 Recommendations
* Clear the blockages form the aft deck drain channels. This is just routine maintenance on a cruiser stern or semi-trad

1.5 Recommendations
* Properly tighten and secure the propellers nut and split pin. Should be accessible from the weed hatch - DIY

1.6 Recommendations
* Remove the matting from the forward deck sole. Thoroughly prepare the deck sole and adjacent lower side plating and repair or maintain as found required. again, DIY - we had this problem and it can be fixed given the time and the inclination

1.7 Recommendations
* Monitor the tilt panel windows and opening ports for leaks and repair/reseal if found required. Probably DIY for the moment but the next cabin repaint should include taking all the windows out
* Replace both glass panes in the forward cabin doors with safety glass. Strictly speaking, yes, but there is no BSS requirement to do so. Our front doors don't have safety glass. 
* Monitor the lower forward edge of the side doors for leaks and repair if found present. routine maintenance

1.8 Recommendations
* Find the source of the leak which has caused the staining and softening to the cabin linings above the television and repair as found required. Good luck with that one!

2.0 Recommendations.
* Consider fitting an engine hour meter. Consider - then forget the idea, just keep a paper record.
* An engineer must inspect the noise on gear engagement and make necessary repairs. Yes, but you're probably better off with a mechanic,

* Monitor the mounting arrangement for the Python Drive coupling and if any deterioration or movement is seen, alterations similar to original design will be required. "Monitor" means "be prepared to shell out in the future"
* Adjust or replace the engines Morse control type lever so it will hold engine speed. Simple DIY adjustment unless it's totally knackered, but it's straightforward to take to bits and reassemble
* In the absence of a recent documented service a full service of the engine and ancillary equipment should be carried out in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations. Yes. Whether it's DIY or 'get a man who can' depends on your level of knowledge and confidence. 

3.1 Recommendations.
* Terminal covers must be fitted to the forward most two batteries. Buy them, clip them on job done

3.2 Recommendations.
* A cable gland must be fitted where the cable passes through the bottom of the aft deck locker base. easy, but bear in mind this means disconnecting and reconnecting one end of the cable!

4.1 Recommendations.
* Determine why the water delivery pump cycled every minute or so and make necessary repairs as found required. Possibly water trickling into the flush toilet, or a leaky shower head? DIY detective skills needed

4.2 Recommendations.
* Repair the fuel leak by the tank outlet isolator. Must be done or it's a BSS FAILURE
* The entire stove installation must be fully renovated and the above listed defects rectified. Must be done or it's a BSS FAILURE
* Any appliance that burns fossil fuel can potentially emit carbon monoxide and as such a service now and annually is recommended for the stove. Must work properly or it's a BSS FAILURE. Does the surveyor mean the chimney needs sweeping?

4.3 Recommendations.
* Properly secure the gas cylinders in the gas locker. Must be done or it's a BSS FAILURE
* Replace the perished flexible gas pipe in the gas locker. It is likely to be leaking at this time.Must be done or it's a BSS FAILURE
* The gas regulator must be removed then securely refitted to the gas cylinder.Must be done or it's a BSS FAILURE
* The vents fitted in the forward and aft cabin bulkheads must have the internal cabin linings/fit out and any steel work altered so these vents can offer ventilation to the cabin.Must be done or it's a BSS FAILURE
* The final connection to the cooker must be made accessible.Must be done or it's a BSS FAILURE
* It is recommended that the gas installation including all appliances is fully serviced and a certificate of compliance issued annually. This should include ventilation calculations/requirements. If the boat has a BSS this was done by the examiner, but calculating the required ventilation is straightforward enough All gas ‘work’ should be carried out by a Gas Safe engineer competent and qualified to work on small craft and the appliances fitted. Yes, absolutely

4.4 Recommendations.
* Ensure the bilge pump is permanently energised to the batteries and the float switch is replaced. Depends on how much the stern gland leaks, and whether the rear deck drainage goes into the bilge or overboard.
* Fit a gas alarm. I presume he means a carbon monoxide (CO) alarm, so yes. A cheap and easy DIY job that could be vital for your own safety.

 

Cheers

Jamie
 

 

Hope my take on it helps somewhat.

Others will be along soon with slightly different opinions. 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Machpoint005
sp and typos

[Sea Dog]

I don't get why you would have a survey, get a list of issues as long as your arm, admit you have no idea of how much is essential work, or of the potential impact, or how much it all might cost to put right and, having read that huge list, not ask the surveyor (acting as your paid agent) for advice. That's fine if the list was so scary you walked away, but you bought the boat without doing so.

 

So, now you own a boat with a big list of problems highlighted by a professional boat surveyor.  Although there's some good advice to be had here, I don't think anyone reading that list on a forum is better placed to assess the work required than the professional that you  engaged and paid to represent you and who's actually seen the issues he's highlighted.  Do yourself a favour, go back to your surveyor or, if you've elected not to trust him for a good reason, get a second opinion from someone who can see the problem for themselves.

 

There's much at stake here for you, so you need to get back on track pdq.  I hope it all works out ok for you.

[system 4-50]

48 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

* The vents fitted in the forward and aft cabin bulkheads must have the internal cabin linings/fit out and any steel work altered so these vents can offer ventilation to the cabin.Must be done or it's a BSS FAILURE

Just a BSS warning rather than a failure ?

[WiseOwl]

51 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Hope my take on it helps somewhat.

Others will be along soon with slightly different opinions. 

Hi Machpoint

 

Cheers for the advice, greatly appreciated. Its just nice to see how others would handle this with the amount of work found. Everyone has to start somewhere! The surveyor did also give tips on what he would consider essential but its nice to see what other narrowboat owners would do.

 

Thanks

Jamie

[alan_fincher]

By just picking out the recommendations, you haven't really told us what the problems are in somed quite important areas.

For example.....
 

Quote

The entire stove installation must be fully renovated and the above listed defects rectified.

Without knowing what these defects are it is impossible to say whether they are things that could kill you, or are in fact fairly trivial.

But if they relate, (for example) to cracks in the stove, missing cement, ill fitting doors, or panelling around the stove not adequately protected by heat resstant materials, then they could be very serious indeed, and many people have died over the years because of precisely those kind of defects.

There are some odd ones in the list.

For example what on earth does this mean.....

 

Quote

The gas regulator must be removed then securely refitted to the gas cylinder.

 

Does this boat have a current BSS?  From that list there would appear to be quite a lot of reasons why it should not, unless all the things listed that should be failure points have been introduced since the last one was carried out.
 

[Richard10002]

There seems to be a lot of ordinary run of the mill maintenance and monitoring in the survey, quite a few, “have a look and if........” comments. Are the windows leaking??

 

There is a leak above the tv, some noise when changing gear, the Gear lever slips, water pump cycles, (a small leak somewhere), small fuel leak, stove seems to be knackered, (but might not be?), perished gas pipe, sort the vents, (although I don’t know what he means), fit a CO alarm.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 hours ago, WiseOwl said:

* Fit a gas alarm.

If he is a marine surveyor then the term GAS ALARM means just that, it does not mean a smoke alarm OR a Co alarm.

It does mean a GAS alarm (as in LPG)

 

https://www.force4.co.uk/gas-alarms-with-waterproof-sensors-m.html

 

 

It may be worth questioning the surveyor as to what he really means.

[dmr]

Most of these points are just basic boat maintainance best practice and I assume not based on specific evidence. For example, it would be great to black the baseplate but 95% of owners decide its more trouble than its worth.....or did the survey actually find pitting on the baseplate that would justify the expense?

 

Shot blasting and epoxy is a good idea (next time you come out) but still the majority of boat owners stick with conventional blacking. If its a "valuable" boat then I would go for epoxy and so not bother fixing pits at 1.5mm,the epoxy will stabilise those, and I certainly would not fit anodes a midships, again the epoxy makes these unnecessary.  Have a look at the bad gas hose, and I Would fit an engine hour meter.

 

Is the prop really loose.....if so that should have been done whilst pout of the water....or again is this just a wise precaution?

 

.............Dave

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Just a BSS warning rather than a failure ?

Yes, I was going to mention that myself 

[MtB]

Having issued a survey report with such a massive list of ambiguous advice, this surveyor simply must be anticipating a three hour phone conversation with you asking for clarification of pretty much every item on the list.

 

Don't disappoint him, call him!! 

 

 

[WiseOwl]

Thanks for the advice, I have spoken to the surveyor who has now also gone through what he would prioritise. Just interesting really to see how others would prioritise - the long term plan is to resolve every recommendation.

[Machpoint005]

15 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Just a BSS warning rather than a failure ?

 

12 hours ago, WotEver said:

Yes, I was going to mention that myself 

OK, OK, I didn't actually look it up. I'd be inclined to take heed of a BSS warning, though, if it was my own skin at risk.

The other failures are failures though.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, WiseOwl said:

Thanks for the advice, I have spoken to the surveyor who has now also gone through what he would prioritise. Just interesting really to see how others would prioritise - the long term plan is to resolve every recommendation.

 

So what would he prioritise?

 

 

[Machpoint005]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

So what would he prioritise?

 

 

Perhaps that depends how close the boat is to its next BSS exam?

[Robbo]

17 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

, now you own a boat with a big list of problems highlighted by a professional boat surveyor.

To be fair, it's not a big list of problems, it's just a boat with a list of issues to fix, like every other boat has.   @WiseOwl, be warned once you've fixed one issue, you'll probably be adding another two issues to the list as that's just boating life. ? 

[WiseOwl]

29 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

So what would he prioritise?

 

 

 

Basically;

-Hull blacking

-Clearing aft drain channel blockages

-Tightening propeller nut

-Investigating gearbox clunking noise as gears engaged

-Replacing bow door glass with safety

-Terminal cover batteries

-Investigate why the water pump is cycling - find the leak

-Service the multi-fuel stove/ensure safe

-Repair Mikuni heater diesel tank outlet isolator leak

-Secure gas cylinders

-Replace gas locker piping

-Repair bilge pump float switch

-Energise bilge pump permanent 

 

I have only asked on here as it's all new to me, I just wanted to see how other people who live on their boats would deal with these things. I am not phased by the work that needs doing, I am actually quite excited to get it sorted! The more tips/advice from experience boaters I thought the better!

 

Cheers

Jamie

[alan_fincher]

I ask again......

Does this bat have a current BSS?

Additionally, when was it carried out?

If it is fairly recent, I think it would take some effort to believe that all the things in the survey report that look like obvious BSS fail points have been introduced since a BSS was passed.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I ask again......

Does this bat have a current BSS?

 

Suspect he didn't see the question 

[WiseOwl]

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

To be fair, it's not a big list of problems, it's just a boat with a list of issues to fix, like every other boat has.   @WiseOwl, be warned once you've fixed one issue, you'll probably be adding another two issues to the list as that's just boating life. ? 

I must admit I would not have bought the boat if I thought the work was major or unreasonable. These are what I would believe to be small things to fix over time, apart from certain stuff which I am trying to prioritise which will get done as soon as possible! Im sure we will get used to the boating life, cannot wait!

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, WiseOwl said:

 

Basically;

-Hull blacking

-Clearing aft drain channel blockages

-Tightening propeller nut

-Investigating gearbox clunking noise as gears engaged

-Replacing bow door glass with safety

-Terminal cover batteries

-Investigate why the water pump is cycling - find the leak

-Service the multi-fuel stove/ensure safe

-Repair Mikuni heater diesel tank outlet isolator leak

-Secure gas cylinders

-Replace gas locker piping

-Repair bilge pump float switch

-Energise bilge pump permanent 

 

I have only asked on here as it's all new to me, I just wanted to see how other people who live on their boats would deal with these things. I am not phased by the work that needs doing, I am actually quite excited to get it sorted! The more tips/advice from experience boaters I thought the better!

 

Cheers

Jamie

I'm glad I no longer have surveys - a surveyor who prioritises 'blacking the hull' ahead of safety issues such as multi-fuel stove and battery covers and even mechanical issues such as gearbox-clunking, and tighten prop-nut, would not be getting any of my money.

 

But I guess that's what you get from an 'industry' that has no qualification or experience requirements to 'belong'.

Any one can have a card printed saying 'Boat Surveyor'.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[WiseOwl]

5 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I ask again......

Does this bat have a current BSS?

Additionally, when was it carried out?

If it is fairly recent, I think it would take some effort to believe that all the things in the survey report that look like obvious BSS fail points have been introduced since a BSS was passed.

Yes the boat does have a current BSS which expires 2021 I believe so cannot have been carried out long ago!

 

I am also quite surprised to see that majority of these are BSS fail issues!

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, WiseOwl said:

Yes the boat does have a current BSS which expires 2021 I believe so cannot have been carried out long ago!

 

I am also quite surprised to see that majority of these are BSS fail issues!

You can choose a BSS inspector who will take your money and give you a certificate, or you can choose a surveyor who will check and fail anything that does not comply. You will learn in the forthcoming years which is which and who uses which one (often boats for sale use the 'former')