Perkins Engine 3.152 Spluttering and Stalling

[sirweste]

Hello all,

 

some help please, tonight when busily reversing the boat around a mile to the nearest water point and winding hole the engine stumbled and cut out.

 

After getting the the bank I checked over things and nothing seemed a-miss. 

Tried starting and he made no effort to catch. So, as when I’ve run out of fuel, I used easi-start to get up and running again. 

Proceeded to do another 20 odd minutes flawlessly. 

 

Then stuttered again, this time I caught it and upped the revs to prevent stalling. 

Took a video. 

 

Any ideas on what the problem could be?

 

I have a thought it could be air getting into the line, which would explain the fluctuations in engine speed and the splutters

 

 

Cheers for any help

[cereal tiller]

24 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Hello all,

 

some help please, tonight when busily reversing the boat around a mile to the nearest water point and winding hole the engine stumbled and cut out.

 

After getting the the bank I checked over things and nothing seemed a-miss. 

Tried starting and he made no effort to catch. So, as when I’ve run out of fuel, I used easi-start to get up and running again. 

Proceeded to do another 20 odd minutes flawlessly. 

 

Then stuttered again, this time I caught it and upped the revs to prevent stalling. 

Took a video. 

 

Any ideas on what the problem could be?

 

I have a thought it could be air getting into the line, which would explain the fluctuations in engine speed and the splutters

 

 

Cheers for any help

Fuel Tank Vent clear?

[sirweste]

I cracked the filler cap, didn’t remove it though. So can’t be sure that I vented it. 

 

I did remove it entirely to dip the tank and check the fuel level after it stalled and died the first time. Didn’t hear a whoosh of air entering the tank though. 

[WotEver]

Fuel filters all clean?

[sirweste]

This I don’t know - never checked em, seems weird if they’d suddenly get blocked though?

will check tomorrow, ta

[WotEver]

32 minutes ago, sirweste said:

This I don’t know - never checked em, seems weird if they’d suddenly get blocked though?

will check tomorrow, ta

Might not be sudden. Could be a slow build up until it’s finally too much. 

[Rickent]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Might not be sudden. Could be a slow build up until it’s finally too much. 

Straw that broke the camels back springs to mind.

[Boater Sam]

Sick engine if you are using easy fart, it destroys even the best.

[cereal tiller]

9 hours ago, sirweste said:

This I don’t know - never checked em, seems weird if they’d suddenly get blocked though?

will check tomorrow, ta

Too obvious but ,Propeller Clear?

 

[Tony Brooks]

I did not like the sound of that "cough" now and again when the engine seemed to slow and recover. It sounded a bit metallic to me. Certainly make sure the fuel system is OK but I would check the valve clearances if nothing amiss is found with the fuel system.

[Boater Sam]

Croupe?

[WotEver]

36 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Croupe?

Calpol will fix it. 

[Bee]

90% of diesel problems like these are fuel, 1st, renew the filter(s), 2nd, is there diesel in the tank or sludge, 3rd is diesel getting through (You'll find out when bleeding it after no. 1) and then on to leaks of air or fuel. After that you are on to valve clearances as Tony says, metallic knocks and things could be lots of things but water in fuel can do this, uncompressible water being injected into the cylinder. After that, Dunno.

[Boater Sam]

Is the licence up to date and displayed? 

 

Ooops, wrong thread.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Boater Sam
added more

[Mike Hurley]

Throw that can of easy start in the bin as well, kills engines.

[X Alan W]

11 hours ago, sirweste said:

This I don’t know - never checked em, seems weird if they’d suddenly get blocked though?

will check tomorrow, ta

In "Normal" engine fuel filtering it is more often than not gradual build up If your fuel pick up is drawing fuel from very low in the tank running low will tend to draw more "gunge" than a bigger quantity of fuel would change the fuel filters soonest

[sirweste]

Cheers for the replies. Fuel filters will be checked and cleaned later as a first stop. 

Fuel tank is at about 1/2 of capacity, with freshish fuel.

Clearances were done a couple of years ago when the engine got full of water, but should check em again.

And the easistart ain't ever going in the bin! I hate the thought of it washing the bores but it's about the only way to get the lump going (in my experience) if the fuel lines got air in it

 

[Tony Brooks]

a

5 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Cheers for the replies. Fuel filters will be checked and cleaned later as a first stop. 

Fuel tank is at about 1/2 of capacity, with freshish fuel.

Clearances were done a couple of years ago when the engine got full of water, but should check em again.

And the easistart ain't ever going in the bin! I hate the thought of it washing the bores but it's about the only way to get the lump going (in my experience) if the fuel lines got air in it

 

It is not washing the bores that you have to worry about, its the shock loading when the ether ignites while the spittoon is part way up the compression stroke that cracks piston rings, breaks chunks off the piston lands and just might bend a con-rod.

 

I can't remember the last time air in the system demanded I use Easystart if it ever did but then I an bleed a diesel engine. I have used Easystart on the very odd occasion when a battery was almost flat & I had no jump equipment or when, over winter, carbon had fallen onto the back of the valves and held them slightly open or the engine had lost compression and the customer insist it be started. In both cases I was scrupulous in following the instructions for diesel engines.

 

I suspect your bleeding technique is open to question - even if the engine is claimed to be self bleeding or the engine has lost compression. Mabe post exactly how you bleed the system here and we might be able to advise.

 

Usually very unlikely but with use of Easystart I wonder if that metallic hesitation is a bit of piston crown jumping about in the cylinder and jambing between piston and head now and again.

[sirweste]

Cheers for the post 

 

Yer I agree, I feel like a right bastard using it. Hearing him pinking like hell is never nice. But I'm not too concerned about the risk of breaking lumps off things, my opinion is that a tough old Perkins lump will be alright. If not then I'll deal with that when it happens.

Have spent a few hours trying to bleed the engine before, confident I'm I've not missed out. If I can be bothered I'll pop up a step by step on here one time, but for now I'm happy to be the occasional horrible bugger!

 

18 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Usually very unlikely but with use of Easystart I wonder if that metallic hesitation is a bit of piston crown jumping about in the cylinder and jambing between piston and head now and again.

Not logical, as I used i to get it going again after it had occurred.

[Boater Sam]

Well, there you go, easy fart is OK 'cos he's not bothered with that either. I'll tell that to the next boat owner who needs a new engine, they may think differently.

Being the occasional horrible bugger does not inhibit you from graciously accepting good advice freely given.

[sirweste]

What!? If the easistart causes a catastrophic failure, then it'll be me dealing with it not the next owner. I was aware of the pre-ignition before, but my only concern with using it is that it likely washes the bores briefly on startup, so increased wear, but over such a short period of time I'm not too concerned as it's logical that the wear will be fairly insignificant.

 

I thanked Tony for his post at the beginning of my reply. Right now I'm no looking for assistance on bleeding the engine, I'm fairly sure I know and have completed all the steps, it's just a pain to start this lump. I may well of missed something, but right now I'm not concerned about it. If I want to learn more about engine bleeding then I'll pop a post up about it as I said, and if people are then still willing to help then I'd be grateful. For now, I'm happy using easistart.

[sirweste]

Anyhow, bickering aside, thanks again for the replies. 

Fuel filter check tonight and I'll do a spanner check too,make sure everything is nipped up.

 

4 hours ago, cereal tiller said:

Too obvious but ,Propeller Clear?

 

Cheers for the suggestion, it was happening in neutral too though

Edited September 5, 2018 by sirweste

[alan_fincher]

For what it is worth, in the 1970s we had a boat with a Perkins P3.144.

The engine always seemed to be in excellent condition, but lacked the bits in the air intake for heating the air being drawn in, and hence was a reluctant cold starter.

Probably because nobody got upset about it back then, Easy Start was quite normal when starting from cold, and we never bothered to find the missing parts that should really have been there when cold starting.

It may not be a great idea, but the boat was sold after several years of ownership in the family, and there was no great evidence of the P3 having suffered badly because of being treated regularly to Easy Start.  It was sold on with a very health oil pressure, no obvious knocking, and always made very little smoke.

 

I'm not saying it is a non problem, but on my own experience,  I think is is a regularly exaggerated problem.

[sirweste]

17 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

The engine always seemed to be in excellent condition, but lacked the bits in the air intake for heating the air being drawn in, and hence was a reluctant cold starter.

Either mine also lacks this, or more likely never had it. He's a real basic lump. Just got the starter overhauled to make cold starts easier - the poor bloody start battery has suffered enough!!

[bizzard]

Years ago in the 1950', 60's and 70's vertually everyone with diesel vehicles used easystart on cold winters mornings, the air reeked of it especially Barkingside Ilford where most of the Black cabs lived with the 2.2 engines which thrived on it. It was easier than lighting bonfires under the engine and wafting lighted newspaper torches over the air intake.  In my 50 years in the motor trade I honestly can't remember an engine being damaged by it, although their life may have been shortened a bit.  I remember a truck with a Perkins P6 in it that started up backwards on easystart, quite frightening as the governor didn't work in that direction, Engine screaming.  Exhaust poured out of the air intake and air sucked in through the exhaust pipe. Forward gears became reverse and reverse became forward. The driver managed to stall it up against a wall which burnt the clutch out, but the engine was still a goodun.