Tiggers 59 Report post #1 Posted July 9, 2018 As some may be aware, we are currently rebuilding the Ken Keay tug ‘Canis Major’. She was reskinned in 2005 by Jem Bates and looking at some old pictures, it looks like the mouldings/beading has been changed from what was original (it looks like Jem just used skirting board..). I know Ken used to use quite a destinctive moulding so I was wondering if anyone had any close up pictures of this? We really want to put her back how she was originally but can’t make out the beading properly from the photos I have of her. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave moore 275 Report post #2 Posted July 9, 2018 Might it be worth contacting Malcolm Braine? I have numbers Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul H 30 Report post #3 Posted July 10, 2018 Ken Keay put the cabin on the Midland and Coast butty Diamond which is exhibited at the Black country Museum. I have no idea if the cabin has been rebuilt since but here's a pic of him doing it. The moulding may have survived best inside the cabin! Paul 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiggers 59 Report post #4 Posted July 10, 2018 Seeing that picture makes me believe that the moulding that is still on my back doors is the same as what was originally on the cabin! That makes it easier to replicate. Will certainly have a chat with Malcolm though as well Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ditchcrawler 956 Report post #5 Posted July 10, 2018 Is there anything in this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Boat-Builders-Sketchbook-Ken-Keay/dp/0992732107 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuscan 274 Report post #6 Posted July 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Tiggers said: Seeing that picture makes me believe that the moulding that is still on my back doors is the same as what was originally on the cabin! That makes it easier to replicate. Will certainly have a chat with Malcolm though as well I’m pretty certain that this is the same moulding as existed on Canis when I had her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiggers 59 Report post #7 Posted July 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Tuscan said: I’m pretty certain that this is the same moulding as existed on Canis when I had her. That’s good to know I’ve got a couple of pictures of Canis but none close enough to see the moulding! That’s definitely made my mind up, thank you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnthebridge 24 Report post #8 Posted July 15, 2018 On 09/07/2018 at 12:23, Tiggers said: As some may be aware, we are currently rebuilding the Ken Keay tug ‘Canis Major’. She was reskinned in 2005 by Jem Bates and looking at some old pictures, it looks like the mouldings/beading has been changed from what was original (it looks like Jem just used skirting board..). I know Ken used to use quite a destinctive moulding so I was wondering if anyone had any close up pictures of this? We really want to put her back how she was originally but can’t make out the beading properly from the photos I have of her. Thanks! It's amazing isn't it! You talk of the "Ken Keay tug Canis Major" as if it's some sort of genuine article. It ain't. I sold half of Canis (a stripped down ex GU butty) to John Harmon in 1977 and he got Ken to make a pleasure boat out of it. Canis Major is a modern iteration of one person's idea of what a BCN tug might be.It's never worked commercially and. in my opinion, has no historical significance whatsoever. On 10/07/2018 at 17:24, Tiggers said: That’s good to know I’ve got a couple of pictures of Canis but none close enough to see the moulding! That’s definitely made my mind up, thank you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiggers 59 Report post #9 Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, johnthebridge said: It's amazing isn't it! You talk of the "Ken Keay tug Canis Major" as if it's some sort of genuine article. It ain't. I sold half of Canis (a stripped down ex GU butty) to John Harmon in 1977 and he got Ken to make a pleasure boat out of it. Canis Major is a modern iteration of one person's idea of what a BCN tug might be.It's never worked commercially and. in my opinion, has no historical significance whatsoever. Pretty sure I called her a ‘Ken Keay tug’, which she is, so what part of that is irking you? ? Not that it matters as she has a lot of significance to both me and John Harmon and that’s enough for me, so thanks for your input, but your opinion doesn’t really have any significance or baring on what I do with my boat. Forgive me for doing it right rather than slapping steel everywhere ? Edited July 15, 2018 by Tiggers 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWM 219 Report post #10 Posted July 16, 2018 16 hours ago, johnthebridge said: It's amazing isn't it! You talk of the "Ken Keay tug Canis Major" as if it's some sort of genuine article. It ain't. I sold half of Canis (a stripped down ex GU butty) to John Harmon in 1977 and he got Ken to make a pleasure boat out of it. Canis Major is a modern iteration of one person's idea of what a BCN tug might be.It's never worked commercially and. in my opinion, has no historical significance whatsoever. A rather harsh appraisal of the original post, which is very directly asking for information on the craft created by Ken Keay and makes no claim to any historic significance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Schweizer 689 Report post #11 Posted July 16, 2018 On 10/07/2018 at 10:21, Tiggers said: Seeing that picture makes me believe that the moulding that is still on my back doors is the same as what was originally on the cabin! That makes it easier to replicate. Will certainly have a chat with Malcolm though as well From what I can see, that moulding is probably a "Quirk Ogee and Bead" and will be quite difficult to find. A sprecialist joinery company might be able to mill some for you, but be prepared to pay a lot for it if they do not already have a suitable milling bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiggers 59 Report post #12 Posted July 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, David Schweizer said: From what I can see, that moulding is probably a "Quirk Ogee and Bead" and will be quite difficult to find. A sprecialist joinery company might be able to mill some for you, but be prepared to pay a lot for it if they do not already have a suitable milling bit. You certainly can’t find it anywhere but we are currently making enquiries to have some made up, aa we need about 80m of it. Having just bought all the marine ply and about to get the bill for the opepe bottom boards, I fear it is going to be an expensive month ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ditchcrawler 956 Report post #13 Posted July 16, 2018 Might be cheaper to make a moulding plane blade if you can find someone who can use it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark99 1106 Report post #14 Posted July 16, 2018 Could make a mould and cast it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiggers 59 Report post #15 Posted July 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Might be cheaper to make a moulding plane blade if you can find someone who can use it I think I would be asked to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine if I asked Dave Linney to make 80 metres by hand! I know we had some moulding made for Gifford a few years back and it did cost a fortune as we were only having a small length made where as it’ll be a bit more economically viable with the amount we are having made Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
furnessvale 1012 Report post #16 Posted July 16, 2018 40 minutes ago, Tiggers said: You certainly can’t find it anywhere but we are currently making enquiries to have some made up, aa we need about 80m of it. Having just bought all the marine ply and about to get the bill for the opepe bottom boards, I fear it is going to be an expensive month ? Stockport Timber next door to Reddish North railway station, have a planing machine and a wall full of different cutters to fit it. They fixed me up with the profile I needed for Badger's cabin which is not a currently available profile. Not cheap, £60 set up fee plus timber and labour for the job, so I took the precaution of buying enough to redo the whole cabin just in case! Tel no 0161 432 8777. HTH George 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiggers 59 Report post #17 Posted July 16, 2018 Just now, furnessvale said: Stockport Timber next door to Reddish North railway station, have a planing machine and a wall full of different cutters to fit it. They fixed me up with the profile I needed for Badger's cabin which is not a currently available profile. Not cheap, £60 set up fee plus timber and labour for the job, so I took the precaution of buying enough to redo the whole cabin just in case! Tel no 0161 432 8777. HTH George That’s worth knowing, thanks George, will give them a ring this week Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BEngo 167 Report post #18 Posted July 16, 2018 Draw the profile full size and Axminster Power Tool Centre will supply a router cutter or a spindle moulder blade set to match if they don't have a stock item. N Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiggers 59 Report post #19 Posted July 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, BEngo said: Draw the profile full size and Axminster Power Tool Centre will supply a router cutter or a spindle moulder blade set to match if they don't have a stock item. N Ooooh I didn’t know they did that! I never need an excuse to go to Axminster, especially now they’ve stopped doing their printed catalogue, need to get my fix some how! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Schweizer 689 Report post #20 Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 56 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Might be cheaper to make a moulding plane blade if you can find someone who can use it I could use it, but it would not work on its own, as you would need to fit it into an apropriately profiled plane body and that would probably already have an iron. 26 minutes ago, BEngo said: Draw the profile full size and Axminster Power Tool Centre will supply a router cutter or a spindle moulder blade set to match if they don't have a stock item. N That is a much better idea, but rather than draw it, take a piece of the moulding so that they can copy it. Edited July 16, 2018 by David Schweizer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark99 1106 Report post #21 Posted July 16, 2018 Ignore my suggestion - I read it as you needed 80mm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BEngo 167 Report post #22 Posted July 16, 2018 1 hour ago, David Schweizer said: I could use it, but it would not work on its own, as you would need to fit it into an apropriately profiled plane body and that would probably already have an iron. That is a much better idea, but rather than draw it, take a piece of the moulding so that they can copy it. I think they will do that, but a drawing will save money as it can be fed into a CNC profile grinder without much ado. A physical profile would still have to be converted to instructions the grinder can follow. N Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Schweizer 689 Report post #23 Posted July 17, 2018 This is a long shot, but have you tried a picture frame moulding supplier. The profile in the photo certainly looks as if that is what might have been used originally, and screwed to the door blank. Of course you would need to get it unfinished, but that should reduce the cost. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiggers 59 Report post #24 Posted June 22 Well she’s finally back in the water, proper moulding and all 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkeyhanger 27 Report post #25 Posted July 8 On 22/06/2019 at 20:56, Tiggers said: Well she’s finally back in the water, proper moulding and all Out of interest, where did you get the moulding you needed from, please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
