Charging Lithium Batteries

[Alan de Enfield]

New information is published about the correct way to charge Lithium (phone) batteries - which presumably will apply to all/any lithium batteries ?

Is this suggesting that to 'get the best' out of your batteries yous should ideally only use 10% of its capacity between the 65-75% SoC

 

This might come as a shock, but most of you have been charging the phones and tablets the wrong way.

You must have heard or read on WhatsApp about the phone on overnight charging blowing up causing injuries to the user while the person was asleep. Well don't worry, the overnight charging wouldn't do that to your phone, but it is also not recommended, according to the findings of Cadax, a company that offers devices that test smartphone and other batteries.

According to Battery University, which the company runs for free, the phone needs to charge in short bursts and that too frequently, if you want a good overall battery life. It doesn't matter if you only charge up 10 per cent or 20 per cent as according to Battery University: "Partial charges cause no harm."

Also, if you want to lessen the wear and tear to your battery, do not hit the red zone, which is 15 per cent in most of the phones. Try to keep the device between 65 per cent and 75 per cent — "the sweet spot", according to the website.

Many of you might be thinking that "hey, I don't have a desk job. I won't be around a wall socket all the time." Well in that case, lay your hands on a power bank. The experts have also recommended that never ever, never ever, never ever charge your battery fully. Try to keep it around 95 and you are good to go.

Why do you ask?

Well, that's because today's modern lithium-ion batteries do "not need to be fully charged, nor is it desirable to do so. The website states: "In fact, it is better not to fully charge because a high voltage stresses the battery". And now, the last point, which may confuse you.

"You don't need to remove the charger when it's full"

What? 'I just read something on the contrary.' Well, yes you are right. But, if it happens that you have left your phone on charging and it has hit the cent per cent mark, then the charger, according to the website, will automatically turn off.

Still, it is recommended that you avoid leaving your phone on overnight charging, hitting the 100 per cent mark and inculcate the habit of juicing up the device frequently and in small doses.

[mrsmelly]

Great those Lion batteries innitt. Best pay fifty grand for a set for my boat 

[rusty69]

If 100% charge is no good for smartphone batteries wouldn't it be easier to have some software that automatically cuts it off before then. 

 

Goes off in search of app..... 

[nb Innisfree]

That would equal a 10 mile range for a Nissan Leaf, very handy for our occasional run up to London. 

[Dr Bob]

Great! 

I charge my Mac book from the red to 100% ....and I know that's right cause it hasn't got a smartgauge..... and on my second battery.

If that article is right I will need to spend £26,579 to replace my lead acids with Lithiums and need a silent engine to recharge in the middle of the night.

[Naughty Cal]

23 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

If 100% charge is no good for smartphone batteries wouldn't it be easier to have some software that automatically cuts it off before then. 

 

Goes off in search of app..... 

Some phones do stop charging or switch to a slower charging rate from a set percentage.

The battery on my current Samsung phone has always been rubbish. It is going on for two years old now so is dire now. I might try this charging in short bursts and not over night to see if I get any improvement from it.

If not it's due for replacing soon so nothing lost.

[Robbo]

A phone battery is a different battery type compared to the ones you would install in your boat.  It’s like comparing a LA starter battery to tubular LA, they may be both LA batteries but have completely different characteristics.

 

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Great! 

I charge my Mac book from the red to 100% ....and I know that's right cause it hasn't got a smartgauge..... and on my second battery.

If that article is right I will need to spend £26,579 to replace my lead acids with Lithiums and need a silent engine to recharge in the middle of the night.

Nah. You have a second bank of Lions to charge the first lot. Roooooaaaaarrrr! 

[Dr Bob]

22 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Nah. You have a second bank of Lions to charge the first lot. Roooooaaaaarrrr! 

You've been in that unStable bar too long. 

Thinking about it. None of my phone, tablet, laptop or wotever batteries have lasted 5 years. Now I agree with Robbo they may be different types but it doesn't fill me with confidence we are charging them right as none seem to be lasting more than a couple of years (say 600 cycles) before loosing half their capacity. For the boat we are looking for 10 years! 

I cycle my LAs between 80-100% ....never go below 80%... so I would need the same capacity with Lithiums. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Dr Bob

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

You've been in that unStable bar too long. 

Thinking about it. None of my phone, tablet, laptop or wotever batteries have lasted 5 years. Now I agree with Robbo they may be different types but it doesn't fill me with confidence we are charging them right as none seem to be lasting more than a couple of years (say 600 cycles) before loosing half their capacity. For the boat we are looking for 10 years! 

I cycle my LAs between 80-100% ....never go below 80%... so I would need the same capacity with Lithiums. 

I only went in that bar for a second. Far too unstable for my stable nature. 

My smartphone battery is still pretty good after two years. I never leave it on the charger overnight. 

[Dr Bob]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I only went in that bar for a second. Far too unstable for my stable nature. 

My smartphone battery is still pretty good after two years. I never leave it on the charger overnight. 

Ah but what does 'pretty good' mean? With a new phone, it may last say 2 days. After 2 years it may last one day. 'Pretty good' you may say...but that is half the capacity gone. Not good enough for a boat.

[rusty69]

13 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Ah but what does 'pretty good' mean? With a new phone, it may last say 2 days. After 2 years it may last one day. 'Pretty good' you may say...but that is half the capacity gone. Not good enough for a boat.

Well, in this case, pretty good means it will still last all day, which is what it did when new. Unfortunately I don't have any hour/useage stats, so pretty good is as good as it gets. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by rusty69

[Neil Smith]

44 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Some phones do stop charging or switch to a slower charging rate from a set percentage.

The battery on my current Samsung phone has always been rubbish. It is going on for two years old now so is dire now. I might try this charging in short bursts and not over night to see if I get any improvement from it.

If not it's due for replacing soon so nothing lost.

Have you tried equalizing at 15.6v as you say  nothing to loose. I have a Samsung S5active that was the last model to have replaceable battery, they last me 2 years a new battery is only a few quid. I sim only.

Neil

 

[nb Innisfree]

4 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

Have you tried equalizing at 15.6v as you say  nothing to loose. I have a Samsung S5active that was the last model to have replaceable battery, they last me 2 years a new battery is only a few quid. I sim only.

Neil

 

It's only a single cell I believe so no multiple cells to equalise. 

[WotEver]

For those of you that use an iPhone, the latest iOS update (11.3) includes a battery health readout. If your battery capacity is around 80% or less then Apple are offering a cut-price battery replacement service for only £25 which you might like to take advantage of. That offer runs until December this year. I think the normal price is something like £75. 

You need to make an appointment at a ‘Genius Bar’ for them to do the exchange, as I understand it. 

Mrs WotEver’s phone, which is a year older than mine, still has 93% capacity, whereas mine, which gets much heavier use, is down to 87%. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by WotEver
Added a bit

[Naughty Cal]

21 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

Have you tried equalizing at 15.6v as you say  nothing to loose. I have a Samsung S5active that was the last model to have replaceable battery, they last me 2 years a new battery is only a few quid. I sim only.

Neil

 

My current S7 never lasted a day even when new. We took it back to the shop several times thinking something was wrong with it!

The previous Sony's lasted two days when new and about a day when ready for replacement.

This Samsung S7 is struggling along at less then a day per charge now!

[bizzard]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

That would equal a 10 mile range for a Nissan Leaf, very handy for our occasional run up to London. 

And if its in winter, at night and pouring with rain, with lights, wipers, heated seats, heated window, heater blower and radio going, I doubt if you'd get to the end of your road.. I'd go by bus.

[Neil Smith]

3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

My current S7 never lasted a day even when new. We took it back to the shop several times thinking something was wrong with it!

The previous Sony's lasted two days when new and about a day when ready for replacement.

This Samsung S7 is struggling along at less then a day per charge now!

I think it's all the extra stuff they put in now, my old S5 lasts 2+ days and yes I do have friends, it does all i need a phone for and more.

Neil

Just now, bizzard said:

And if its in winter, at night and pouring with rain, with lights, wipers, heated seats, heated window, heater blower and radio going, I doubt if you'd get to the end of your road.. I'd go by bus.

I heard they are going electric soon so I'd walk, bike or get me horse and cart out.

Neil

[Robbo]

1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

You've been in that unStable bar too long. 

Thinking about it. None of my phone, tablet, laptop or wotever batteries have lasted 5 years. Now I agree with Robbo they may be different types but it doesn't fill me with confidence we are charging them right as none seem to be lasting more than a couple of years (say 600 cycles) before loosing half their capacity. For the boat we are looking for 10 years! 

I cycle my LAs between 80-100% ....never go below 80%... so I would need the same capacity with Lithiums. 

Your phone battery life span is around 600-1000 cycles so 5 years is about right.  Each lithium technology is different, don’t compare your phone to the batteries you would put in your boat as they are designed with different goals in mind.  LiFePO4 are good for life span and safety, where LiCoO2 are good for energy density.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Robbo

[cuthound]

The Li-on batteries in my iPod are in their 13th year. I charge it to 100% when it goes into the red at I guess around 15% capacity, and once a year charge it to 100% and let it play until it switches itself off to keep the capacity gauge calibrated. I listen to it now occassionally for about 1 hour a day, but when working I used to listen to it for about 4 hours a day most days whilst commuting in and out of London.

When new it used to last 12 hours from fully charged to switch off, now it lasts a bit over 5 hours.

I guess I must be doing thing wrong?

Edited April 8, 2018 by cuthound
Missing space

[rusty69]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

Mrs WotEver’s phone

WotEver.

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

WotEver.

Yes?

[Neil Smith]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

The Li-on batteries in my iPod are in their 13th year. I charge it to 100% when it goes into the red at I guess around 15% capacity, and once a year charge it to 100% and let it play until it switches itself off to keep the capacity gauge calibrated. I listen to it now occassionally for about 1 hour a day, but when working I used to listen to it for about 4 hours a day most days whilst commuting in and out of London.

When new it used to last 12 hours from fully charged to switch off, now it lasts a bit over 5 hours.

I guess I must be doing thing wrong?

No your not, that is how they used to say how to do it, but seems times are a changing if you listen to all the new blurb.

Neil.

[George and Dragon]

On 08/04/2018 at 12:28, cuthound said:

The Li-on batteries in my iPod are in their 13th year. I charge it to 100% when it goes into the red at I guess around 15% capacity, and once a year charge it to 100% and let it play until it switches itself off to keep the capacity gauge calibrated. I listen to it now occassionally for about 1 hour a day, but when working I used to listen to it for about 4 hours a day most days whilst commuting in and out of London.

 When new it used to last 12 hours from fully charged to switch off, now it lasts a bit over 5 hours.

I guess I must be doing thing wrong?

So, in effect it's down to 42%. Not bad for 12 year old Li-ions I'd have thought. 

Newer batteries may require a different charging regime as Alan says (I cannot possibly comment).

Personally I shall continue to run my 2011 MacBook mostly on the charger unless I need to be away from a 240V supply. My 3 year old iPhone 6 goes on charge (almost) every night and according to the iOS battery app is still at 95%. I have once managed to run out of charge before bedtime...

 

[cuthound]

The enemy of lithium ion batteries is heat. That is why it is recommended to remove the charger as soon as they are charged.

 

However newer chargers sense when the battery is charged and switch off to prevent overheating the battery.