Related to "am I sinking"

[Flyboy]

20 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

MSDS at

http://www.kamco.co.uk/MSDS/SystemsafeDMConcentrate.pdf

Contains Dodecandioic Acid, Benzotriazole and Bronopol(??)

The acid will be an oxygen scavenger so works by getting rid of oxygen and the Benzotriazole (as per wikipedia) is one of the passivating chemicals to be used specifically on copper. This therefore is working by using both methods. Not a clue what Bronopol is. Not likely to work that well in the bilge - probably better to find a passivating one that is designed for steel.

Wasn't Bronco slippery toilet paper in the old days ?

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Flyboy

[WotEver]

14 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

You should have taken 10 seconds and looked at the 'concentrate' link. My link is the concentrate which seems to have the correct 'active' ingredients. Not sure what is in the one you found.

My link was to the standard product and not the concentrate because Mike didn’t say he had the concentrate. 

 

19 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Not a clue what Bronopol is

Bronopol (INN) is an organic compound that is used as an antimicrobial. It is a white solid although commercial samples appear yellow.

Edited April 5, 2018 by WotEver
I really didn’t want to say it twice

[system 4-50]

Central Heating inhibitor (as least the one I use) smells.  It stinks. No way I'd want it anywhere I had to visit.

[JerryDu33]

Hi again, 

and thanks for the impressive number and rapidity of responses! 

Quote

What sort of boat do you have? Welded steel? Riveted iron? Something else?

@Mike the Boilerman: sorry I did not mention that. It is welded steel!

Quote

dock it regularly keep it painted / don't allow electrolysis

@roland elsdon: what do you mean by that? By saying "keep it painted", you mean blackened, don't you? And with "electrolysis" you mean being plugged to shore power without galvanic protection? Or did I get it totally wrong?

Quote

I suspect this thread will fill up with people proudly declaring that their bilges are always dry, while huge numbers of others are too self-conscious to admit that theirs aren't.  These will fall into two groups:  The first will have spent years constantly battling against wet bilges - using pumps, wet vacs, nappies, tonneau covers over cruiser sterns etc.  The second will remember when they used to do that and ended up getting weary of trying to be King Canute, and now simply live with their shameful secret - wet bilges. Of course, it's better for bilges to be dry but to achieve that is nigh on impossible for many boats.  Rainwater ingress through cruiser sterns, condensation and other factors simply prevent it in any practical sense. 

@Dave_P: I guess you hit the essence of my question. What do "wet" and "dry" mean? If dry is what a bilge pump is supposed to produce, then my boat is very dry! The bilge pump would only kick in after the water level reaches 2.5cm, which neither occur in my motor bilge nor in my cabin bilge. What I am basically reporting is:

- just a bit of water gathering in some corners of the motor bilge compartments. The water is max 2cm deep I would say and does not cover the whole surface of the compartments

- the cabin bilge being damp, that is, just some kind of humidity. If I touch the hull with my hand in the bilge, the most I can get is a bit of humidity at my fingertips. I can't see any new water coming back since three weeks.

Would you then call these "wet" or "dry" bilges?

But I guess I got the message from all answers to my post: better trying to solve the problem with patience than doing nothing.

BUT, there is this one thing:

Quote

... surprised just how much condensation there can be. On a badly designed boat you could be getting a litre a night into the bilge. (comment from @Dr Bob, supported by some other comments saying that condensation may produce quite a lot of water in the bilges)

I guess I can combat the condensation in the accommodation room by putting vents and fans and holes, as several people suggested.

But I cannot combat condensation in the motor room, do I?

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, JerryDu33 said:

I guess I can combat the condensation in the accommodation room by putting vents and fans and holes

Best not to put too many holes below the water line, or with 100% humidity the condensation may get worse.

[JerryDu33]

 

5 hours ago, rusty69 said:

.... Do sleep with one arm dangling out of your bed

pretty clever! 

 

4 hours ago, dmr said:

How old are you and how old is the boat? The boat will eventually rust through but it might be somebody elses problem.

This is a pretty new build, from 2011. By looking at the steel in the bilges, I cannot really say whether it is in good condition of not because I don't really have an eye for that. Most of the surface is grey (the color of the anticorrosion paint I guess) with some rust points. A few square feet are pretty red and of irregular surface. 

 

4 hours ago, pete.i said:

It's what automatic bilge pumps were invented for.

Yes but that's the thing: my bilge pump will only kick in after the water level raised above 2.5 cm or so, which does not happen in my case. 

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, JerryDu33 said:

pretty clever! 

I know.I spent two weeks dangling last year,when I thought our boat was sinking.Turns out it wasn't.

[Dyertribe]

4 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Now, whilst I rate myself as a good chemist, I have no clue how these corrosion inhibitors work. I never really got into inorganic chemistry. I will go and have a google and see what I can find.

https://www.sentinelprotects.com/sites/default/files/sds/sentinel_x100_3_en_0.pdf

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, JerryDu33 said:

 

Yes but that's the thing: my bilge pump will only kick in after the water level raised above 2.5 cm or so, which does not happen in my case. 

It will - Be patient.

[rusty69]

4 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Wot else can you offer. 40% is a bit steep for me!

Ok.I'll take your offer,as I have had no others. 40% for two lines,and also a full written report for trialing the product on your rusty pillar drill.

[Jess--]

wet bilge vs dry bilge...

some boat designs are arranged so that any water that gets into the well deck at the front drains through the bilge along the whole length of the boat before being picked up by a pump at the back, this is known as a wet bilge

a dry bilge will tend to shed water from the front well deck through drainage holes in the side of the hull, no water should be below the cabin floor unless there is a leak or condensation.

the only advantage I can think of with a wet bilge is that the floor level of the well deck can be below the waterline.

[Dave_P]

1 hour ago, JerryDu33 said:

 

@Dave_P: I guess you hit the essence of my question. What do "wet" and "dry" mean? If dry is what a bilge pump is supposed to produce, then my boat is very dry! The bilge pump would only kick in after the water level reaches 2.5cm, which neither occur in my motor bilge nor in my cabin bilge. What I am basically reporting is:

- just a bit of water gathering in some corners of the motor bilge compartments. The water is max 2cm deep I would say and does not cover the whole surface of the compartments

- the cabin bilge being damp, that is, just some kind of humidity. If I touch the hull with my hand in the bilge, the most I can get is a bit of humidity at my fingertips. I can't see any new water coming back since three weeks.

Would you then call these "wet" or "dry" bilges?

 

Anything other than a bone dry bilge can rust.  Therefore any moisture down there should be classed as wet.  In fact, a thin layer of water will carry more oxygen and cause more rust.  It's why external hull sides rust more than baseplates.

This is why, in my opinion, it may be pointless try to keep your bilge dry.  I dry mine completely with a wet vac and nappies but it only takes a cold spell and/or heavy rain and it's wet again.  I try not to dwell on it too much 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Jess-- said:

wet bilge vs dry bilge...

some boat designs are arranged so that any water that gets into the well deck at the front drains through the bilge along the whole length of the boat before being picked up by a pump at the back, this is known as a wet bilge

a dry bilge will tend to shed water from the front well deck through drainage holes in the side of the hull, no water should be below the cabin floor unless there is a leak or condensation.

the only advantage I can think of with a wet bilge is that the floor level of the well deck can be below the waterline.

Graham Reeves often used two pipes running the length of the cabin bilge to drain the well deck into the wet engine bilge at the stern. 

This allowed a lower floor in the well deck. All went well until the pipes rusted through. Why be didn't use plastic piping I'll never understand.

[Dr Bob]

3 hours ago, JerryDu33 said:

Hi again, 

and thanks for the impressive number and rapidity of responses! 

 

 

Jerry, welcome to the forum. I appologise on behalf of the forum for all of the 'off topic' posts. Do not worry. It is totally normal. There are a lot of muppets on here.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

There are a lot of muppets on here.

There is only one muppet,and you are he!

[Dr Bob]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

There is only one muppet,and you are he!

What happend to your song? Did you get nerection into it?

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Ok.I'll take your offer,as I have had no others. 40% for two lines,and also a full written report for trialing the product on your rusty pillar drill.

That works for me...

Phone needs charging so you’ll have to wait a short while. 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

What happend to your song? Did you get nerection into it?

I've subbed it out.You missed the boat!

[cuthound]

14 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

There is only one muppet,and you are he!

We used to have Beaker on here but he hasn't visited since last July.

Edited April 5, 2018 by cuthound
Spillung

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

We Used to have Beaker on here but hev hasn't visited since last July.

I'm not surprised.This place is full of nutters!

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, cuthound said:

We used to have Beaker on here but he hasn't visited since last July.

Another 'wave of immigrants'.

The Beaker phenomenon has been documented across Europe in the late third and early second millennia BC, defined by a particular style of pottery and, in northwestern and central Europe, its inclusion in burials. This project examines Beaker mobility, migration and diet in Britain in the period 2500-1700 BC.

Since the 19th century antiquarians and archaeologists have argued whether the appearance in Britain of burials with pots known as Beakers marked the arrival of continental migrants around 2400-2200 BC. These people have been variously credited with introducing metalworking to Britain, spreading the Indo-European language group and building Stonehenge.

In recent decades many prehistorians have argued that the changes in material culture were due to the introduction of a 'Beaker package' rather than a wave of immigration but isotope results from the skeleton of the Amesbury Archer, found near Stonehenge, indicate that he grew up in Europe.

[Dr Bob]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Another 'wave of immigrants'.

 

Did they have wet bilges?

(......and back on topic!)

[Flyboy]

9 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Did they have wet bilges?

(......and back on topic!)

Not if they use Bronco !  Off topic !