Sorry again all but thoughts on this boat please?

[rgreg]

16 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I have only taken a brief look, but my comments are this.

Floating Homes boats are from my perspective one of the most "budget" available.

Whilst many narrow boats use various Perkins engines, (with people having very varying views on them), I'm not really aware of this particular engine being a common choice in a narrow boat.  I haven't investigated, but suspect those saying it has a timing belt are right, making it in my view an unsuitable choice.

The boat is 16 years old - I wonder if any other boats built around that time have been fitted with this engine.  It all smacks to me of trying to build a boat on as small a budget at possible.

If I wanted a reliable cruising boat I wouldn't go near it - if you just want a boat to live on on a permanent mooring it might be OK, but if you treat it as that, it seems mightily overpriced to me.

This timing belt argument comes up from time to time. My boat is fitted with a Lombardini engine which has a timing belt; it has done 3500 hrs, several on tidal waters, and has never missed a beat. The belt was changed at 2500 hrs as per the service schedule and the old one could hardly be differentiated from the new one. I'm just commenting on my personal experience regarding a cambelt driven engine and am I pleased I bought the boat? Absolutely.

Edited April 1, 2018 by rgreg

[Dr Bob]

7 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

This one looks like its been on over a week. What does that mean?

Probably it is not a really really nice boat then.

I would:

If you like the look of it. Go and see it in the flesh

If you still like the look of it.Prod around a bit and look at paperwork.

If you still like it,look at others whilst you are in the area.

If you still like it.Sleep on it (not literally).

If you still like it.Post on CWDF.

If you still like it.Check out broker terms and conditions.

If you still like it (but can afford to lose it),put in a cheeky offer.

Remember seeing that good advice on the internet somewhere

[alan_fincher]

3 minutes ago, rgreg said:

This timing belt argument comes up from time to time. My boat is fitted with a Lombardini engine which has a timing belt; it has done 3500 hrs, several on tidal waters, and has never missed a beat. The belt was changed at 2500 hrs as per the service schedule and the old one could hardly be differentiated from the new one. I'm just commenting on my personal experience regarding a cambelt driven engine and am I pleased I bought the boat? Absolutely.

I'm just mindful that we have seen examples on the forum where the cramped installation of the engine has rendered a timing belt change almost impossible.

A bit of searching would reveal a boat that a member was going to buy where this was one of the reasons they decided not to.  That was, I think with another Perkins engine, (Perama, possibly?).  I'm not quite sure what Perkins engine is being talked about in this boat - is it what is also known as a Prima?  (Sorry I haven't got time to go Googling to find out for myself).

I'm fairly certain we are talking about a generation of Perkins engines that has zero connection, other than in name, with things like the 4-108, P3-152, D3-152, etc, which may well have been far more suitable for narrow boat use than some of the later offerings, which I suspect were manufactured by someone else entirely, (but I ould be wrong!....)

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Remember seeing that good advice on the internet somewhere

That sounds like good advice,and coincidently how I got Mrs Rusty.

[rgreg]

4 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I'm just mindful that we have seen examples on the forum where the cramped installation of the engine has rendered a timing belt change almost impossible.

A bit of searching would reveal a boat that a member was going to buy where this was one of the reasons they decided not to.  That was, I think with another Perkins engine, (Perama, possibly?).  I'm not quite sure what Perkins engine is being talked about in this boat - is it what is also known as a Prima?  (Sorry I haven't got time to go Googling to find out for myself).

I'm fairly certain we are talking about a generation of Perkins engines that has zero connection, other than in name, with things like the 4-108, P3-152, D3-152, etc, which may well have been far more suitable for narrow boat use than some of the later offerings, which I suspect were manufactured by someone else entirely, (but I ould be wrong!....)

Yes, I can see if access is an issue then changing the belt could be problematic. Sensibly, on mine, sufficient space was left between the engine and bulkhead to easily replace the belt.

[OldGoat]

24 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Yes, I can see if access is an issue then changing the belt could be problematic. Sensibly, on mine, sufficient space was left between the engine and bulkhead to easily replace the belt.

The blurb states that the engine is a 504-2 rated at 50HP - part of the Prima range and fitted to some vans.

Looking at the 360 degree visual tour, the engine room is not exactly tucked under the back step and if the covers can be removed easily, then perhaps changing the cam belt may not be such an horrendous task. The questions then arise are - how often does it need changing and how easy is that to change for a handy owner or the average boat mechanic?

So is it a non-starter (a pun in there somewhere) or just a point to consider.

The interior looks smart and I'm wondering - given the boat's provenance - that it's bee recently refurbished and that may account for the ambitious price. It looks to me that the fitters ran out of ideas (or budget) when they got to the back end - untidy cabling, poor layout with none of the finish (on the walls anyway) of the rest of the boat. Could those points be the reason why it's not been sold, or is the price just not good value. Looking at the outside profile I note that the side windows have one hopper and two sliding windows. Great for the summer when you want lots of ventilation, but what when it rains? Is the ventilation adequate under our British weather conditions? 

I'm not nit picking, but I've seen complaints on this forum about ventilation in the summer and come to the conclusion that it's a function that gets ignored when building boats.

[zenataomm]

2 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Don't hold back, say what you think.

I was asked to.

TBH apart from encouraging chatter I see no benefit in these "What do you think of this boat .....?" enquiries.

I haven't seen any of them, I haven't been on board, I haven't taken any of them out, and I certainly haven't seen any of them out of the water.

On top of which my taste is hardly likely to be anything similar to the OP's nor are my needs or budget.

The only honest truthful advice any of us can give anyone asking these questions is .......

If you've been to see it and satisfied yourself you want it, make an offer subject to satisfactory survey and be there when it's done.

My views, prejudices and preferences have no relevance.  If you want to buy a boat, then buy one and get out on the cut.

[PD1964]

Better value boats out there then this, especially Trad Sterns, I see it does not tell you the engine hours in the Ad??

Edited April 1, 2018 by PD1964

[Athy]

5 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Being a Beta fan, I wasn't going to be rude about the Perkins (assume it was a 4.108) - they were popular in their day, but wonder what the spares position is nowadays. Lancing Marine are the experts - but they are Darn Sarf.

 

As Perkins are still very much a going concern (they're in Peterborough), why should spare parts be a problem?

[alan_fincher]

59 minutes ago, Athy said:

As Perkins are still very much a going concern (they're in Peterborough), why should spare parts be a problem?

It depends what engine, of course.

I struggled to buy the right parts for a P3-144 in the early 1970s, and certainly would expect to find it harder now.

That said we seem to be talking about a fairly modern engine, probably never really intended for marine use, so it might well not be an issue, if you find the right supplier.

However unlike a Beta, Isuzu, BMC, Lister, etc, I doubt you are going to find filters and the like on the shelves of canal-side chandleries.

[Matt&Jo]

2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

It depends what engine, of course.

I struggled to buy the right parts for a P3-144 in the early 1970s, and certainly would expect to find it harder now.

That said we seem to be talking about a fairly modern engine, probably never really intended for marine use, so it might well not be an issue, if you find the right supplier.

However unlike a Beta, Isuzu, BMC, Lister, etc, I doubt you are going to find filters and the like on the shelves of canal-side chandleries.

Another bloody good point.....

[Athy]

5 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

However unlike a Beta, Isuzu, BMC, Lister, etc, I doubt you are going to find filters and the like on the shelves of canal-side chandleries.

Yes, quite right.

[Matt&Jo]

Not feeling as optimistic as before and i also think its had a bit of a refurb...been for sale since novemeber.....i called the marina and they have not had any offers or surveys carried out until recently an offer was made. Too low for the seller....i always feel nervouse about boats that have been for sale for such a log time cuz i know as do you all how quickly a good boat sells.....

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, Matt&Jo said:

i always feel nervouse about boats that have been for sale for such a log time cuz i know as do you all how quickly a good boat sells.....

Only if the seller prices it realistically. The best boat on the cut won’t ever sell if wildly over-priced. 

[Matt&Jo]

Or if its a lemon?

Waiting for a newb like me to come along and unwittingly throw good money after bad........

[Nick D]

Not qualified enough to comment on the engine but it looks a nice clean boat on the inside which you could put your own stamp on.  I know that lots of people out there have very strong views on their preferred type of stern and I don't want to open another argument as I respect everyone's own opinions.  However, for my part, I understand you have dogs and originally wanted the outside space of a cruiser stern.  For us (with 2 dogs) a semi trad is perfect, but I am not sure a trad will work if you want the dogs to keep you company while you are cruising.  Now let the floodgates open.....

[Matt&Jo]

10 minutes ago, Nick D said:

Not qualified enough to comment on the engine but it looks a nice clean boat on the inside which you could put your own stamp on.  I know that lots of people out there have very strong views on their preferred type of stern and I don't want to open another argument as I respect everyone's own opinions.  However, for my part, I understand you have dogs and originally wanted the outside space of a cruiser stern.  For us (with 2 dogs) a semi trad is perfect, but I am not sure a trad will work if you want the dogs to keep you company while you are cruising.  Now let the floodgates open.....

To be honest we will put the little one on the roof and put our mahoosive lab in the engine room with the hatch open but doors shut . I dont like the idea of loose dogs around locks for sure and also mine are a bit dopy so safest away from the action.....i have the wife complaining at me to keep me company lol

Edited April 1, 2018 by Matt&Jo

[Dr Bob]

2 hours ago, Matt&Jo said:

Not feeling as optimistic as before and i also think its had a bit of a refurb...been for sale since novemeber.....i called the marina and they have not had any offers or surveys carried out until recently an offer was made. Too low for the seller....i always feel nervouse about boats that have been for sale for such a log time cuz i know as do you all how quickly a good boat sells.....

Yep, wouldnt touch it. Something is wrong if it hasnt sold for 6 months. Unless that 'something wrong' doesnt bother you then look elsewhere. That something wrong may be price - but could be anything.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

That something wrong may be price - but could be anything.

Thats the only thing it can be,unless its stolen or haunted or summit.

Edited April 1, 2018 by rusty69

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

That something wrong may be price - but could be anything

One could argue that price is the only relevant criterion here. If it needs overplating then the price could reflect that. If it needs a new engine then the price could reflect that. It’s like a house or anything else for that matter, if it doesn’t sell then it’s priced too high. 

[Lysander]

I know nothing about the engine or the builder but I know that if I were going to live aboard, I would want somewhere where I could sit and eat my meals at a table. Tables are useful for all sorts of other things too. Maybe one could be put in the engine room - there's nothing else in there that I can see...

[Matt&Jo]

9 hours ago, Lysander said:

I know nothing about the engine or the builder but I know that if I were going to live aboard, I would want somewhere where I could sit and eat my meals at a table. Tables are useful for all sorts of other things too. Maybe one could be put in the engine room - there's nothing else in there that I can see...

No there is a table stowed to one side and goes inbetween the two sofas, to be honest i will rip that lot out as we dont want tables....we got rid of them at home and we will do the same on the boat.....im going to go see her and make a choice between her and our lady richmond......

[Athy]

1 hour ago, Matt&Jo said:

No there is a table stowed to one side and goes in between the two sofas, to be honest i will rip that lot out as we don't want tables.

We have a similar thing, a folding table which will fit neatly between our two bench seats. It's just the job at dinner time. But if you don't want tables, what will you eat off? Will you balance your plate on your knee, or are your floors very very clean?

[OldGoat]

Might I humbly suggest that you make supreme efforts to see what - if any- nasties lie behind and beneath the refurbishments?

Is the plumbing neat and do the pipe runs as far as you can see straight and even accessible? The same applies to the electrics. The engine bay may give you an inkling as to the quality of the general fitout - whether new and improved - or not bothered as most customers don't look that deeply

It may be that the owner has spent a lot on upgrading this hull and (obviously) wants to recoup his outlay - but that latter may not have added and real value.

What's the history of the boat?

 

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, Matt&Jo said:

im going to go see her and make a choice between her and our lady richmond......

Please think long and hard about Lady Penn, however attracted you feel too her.

"Floating homes" are not renowned as a quality build, the engine is far from mainstream, (seldom a good idea if you want trouble free), and IMO the price far, far too high.

Anyway at the end of the day people tend to make their own choice, I realise, but this isn't one I'd spend much time on, frankly.

(The amount of time on the market is often a very strong clue.)