Scary Moment in York

[Nightwatch]

8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Ill bet hes considerably younger than you 

I was very very young when he was.................created. In fact he's only 21 years younger than me. He's not very old, must be just over 20 ish now or there about.

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I was very very young when he was.................created. In fact he's only 21 years younger than me. He's not very old, must be just over 20 ish now or there about.

[Rob-M]

It certainly wasn't summer today as we boated from Fradley to Great Haywood in the rain. There were quite a few other boats moving though.

[Mike Todd]

On 01/04/2018 at 10:40, peterboat said:

Last year we hit Selby at the top of the tide it was perfik shame the lock keeper wouldnt let us in!!!

When we chatted to the lock keeper at Selby last summer (when we were 'advised' not to try going up to York) he was clear that he could not refuse entry if there was even a hint of needing a haven, even without a licence. 

[nb Innisfree]

So to summarize:

Travelling forward upstream - step ashore with bow line. 

Travelling forward downstream - step ashore with stern line. 

Travelling in reverse upstream - step ashore with stern line. 

Travelling in reverse downstream - step ashore with bow line. 

Or:

Step ashore with line from the upstream end. 

[Nightwatch]

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

My eldest is approximately 70% of my age. I am no mathematician, he is only 43.

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Nightwatch said:

My eldest is approximately 70% of my age. I am no mathematician, he is only 43.

You’re 61.8571 years old then

 

Me too, more or less

[Nightwatch]

I did say I'm no mathematician. I'm nearly 65. April actually. 

[WotEver]

He’s only 66% of your age then

[Nightwatch]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

He’s only 66% of your age then

That was my first estimate. Then, I started thinking! Thanks for that. Not that it matters. The result is Mrsmelly is,yes, he is younger than I.

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Nightwatch said:

That was my first estimate. Then, I started thinking! Thanks for that. Not that it matters. The result is Mrsmelly is,yes, he is younger than I.

  Your an old phart innitt.

[Nightwatch]

Fraid so. No2 son is 41 today. No3 son is 33! Yes, we had a rest between 2 and 3 sons.

You must be catching me up though!

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Fraid so. No2 son is 41 today. No3 son is 33! Yes, we had a rest between 2 and 3 sons.

You must be catching me up though!

Yes - I went without sex for 16 years -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but - on my 16th Birthday !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nightwatch]

I've only dun it 3 times. Never again Chief,never again.

[mrsmelly]

13 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Fraid so. No2 son is 41 today. No3 son is 33! Yes, we had a rest between 2 and 3 sons.

You must be catching me up though!

Ahh well me and the mark two missus have 5 sproggs between us and 9 grand sproggs. The kids are aged between 47 and 33 and the grandkids are aged between 27 and 5 and hopefuly thats the lot but........................

[Dave_P]

12 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

So to summarize:

Travelling forward upstream - step ashore with bow line. 

Travelling forward downstream - step ashore with stern line. 

Travelling in reverse upstream - step ashore with stern line. 

Travelling in reverse downstream - step ashore with bow line. 

Or:

Step ashore with line from the upstream end. 

This is good advice.  The standard advice is to moor facing upstream.  I would question that advice for single handers (such as in this case).  If you're a single hander and you try and moor pointing upstream on a fast river, you'll step of the stern with a choice of stern or centre line in your hand.  Neither of these are ideal, especially if the current pushes your bow back out into the river.  It sounds like this it what happened in the OPs description.  

Much better to come alongside the mooring facing downstream and come to a halt using reverse gear.  In many cases you can loop a stern line over a bollard and tie off at the stern without even stepping off the boat.  Then you have all the time in the world as the boat is going nowhere.  Even if you have to get off the boat, you can quickly get your line round a bollard/ring/cleat and make things secure.  Then you can tie your bow at your leisure.  

If you have crew, then things are so much easier as you can ensure that the skipper stays on board.

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Dave_P

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Much better to come alongside the mooring facing downstream and come to a halt using reverse gear. 

The problem with that is that in a fast flowing river (in flood - maybe 5 or 6 mph) you are approaching the mooring very fast and I doubt many NB's could hold reverse against that sort of flow. By approaching bow into the flow, you can hold the boat motionless against the flow.

Once you have 'lost' the boat and it ends up sideways to the current not many NBs have the power or steering to be able to turn back into the flow.

Some years ago we left Sawley (River Trent) after the River being closed due to flooding, and headed down river, there was a 'convoy' and we were one of the first to arrive at Trent Lock / Cranfleet , we turned into the flow and moored onto the pontoon.

The River was still in full flood and I estimate we had made over 10 knots going downstream.

One of the other boats tried to get straight into the pontoon whilst doing 10 knots, I could see him coming and as he made no effort to turn I cut my lines and was immediately snatched away and ended up sideways heading towards Thrumpton Weir - at full throttle and varying angles of the tiller I could not make the boat turn - eventually as the trousers started to fill up the bow inched round a fraction, then a little more, until I actually had some control.

Rather than worrying about which way to moor - DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN THAT POSITION.

As C&RT say in their T&Cs under "Navigation Rules" :

You are responsible for assessing whether it is safe to use the Waterway in flood or strong stream conditions. Our Waterway offices may be able to assist.

[Dave_P]

I can only speak for my boat which goes pretty much the same speed in forwards and reverse.  I would suggest that if the river is running fast enough to prevent your reverse gear from being effective, then you shouldn't be moving, because that would mean you have no way to stop the boat when travelling downstream (like being on a runaway train).  So we're kind of agreeing.  However, if your reverse gear is sufficient to stop the boat, then I stand by what I said:  when single-handing it's easier, and safer, to moor up facing downstream.

[Dave_P]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

By approaching bow into the flow, you can hold the boat motionless against the flow.

 

You're advocating leaving the boat in forward gear while abandoning the controls to tie your lines?  Which line would you try to tie first?  The stern? - then you risk the bow being whipped round while you're trying to secure your line.  The centre or bow? Then you're leaving the helm unattended by some distance while you scamper up the side to tie.  Either way, you run a genuine risk of losing the boat, which, remember, you have just left in forward gear with no one at the helm!  I love to know what an insurance company would make of that!

Your other option, would be to hold the boat motionless against the flow,  grab the stern line, then go into neutral, and quickly tie the stern on, and run up to the bow end to tie there.  On a fast river, this just wouldn't work - the boat would be carried downstream as you tried to tie it.

It's clear from your post that your Trent experience was not while single handing.

I'm not trying to whip up an argument, but can you explain how to safely moor, facing upstream, when single handing?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

It's clear from your post that your Trent experience was not while single handing.

No. I wasn't single handed, but I do single hand at times.

I would use the bow rope.

I have a very clever device that holds your line, hooks onto rings and feeds the line thru and back to the boat.

Draw along side the ring you want to tie up to, 'hook-it' keep hold of the line and slowly drop back, tie off the line to a stern cleat when the bow is aligned with the mooring ring and it is moored without leaving the boat. You can now get off & sort out the lines 'properly'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zhPsTtLy4c

 

Go on - admit you want one !!

[Naughty Cal]

If it can't be done safely then perhaps just not single handing narrowboats on rivers is a better idea.

[JeffB]

On 01/04/2018 at 08:46, Detling said:

Maybe centre ropes should be taken off on rivers, they are dangerous, use bow and stern lines. I have a long rope which goes from the bow and reaches the rear of the cabin roof so we use that when there is any flow. Also as this chap did you must point into the current when mooring.

A long bow line for pulling in on rivers when single handed is a good piece of advice, however you would need a bollard or cleat for this to be safely used in fast flow conditions.

[nb Innisfree]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No. I wasn't single handed, but I do single hand at times.

I would use the bow rope.

I have a very clever device that holds your line, hooks onto rings and feeds the line thru and back to the boat.

Draw along side the ring you want to tie up to, 'hook-it' keep hold of the line and slowly drop back, tie off the line to a stern cleat when the bow is aligned with the mooring ring and it is moored without leaving the boat. You can now get off & sort out the lines 'properly'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zhPsTtLy4c

 

Go on - admit you want one !!

We had one of those, note the video doesn't show mooring on a ring, difficult enough in still water, on a fast flowing river, forget it. Clever though. 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

If it can't be done safely then perhaps just not single handing narrowboats on rivers is a better idea.

I must disagree - there are times & circumstances when it is necessary and fun and of little risk.

The argument could be for restricting any unsuitable boat on Rivers when in flood, but that's another topic.

 

2 minutes ago, JeffB said:

A long bow line for pulling in on rivers when single handed is a good piece of advice, however you would need a bollard or cleat for this to be safely used in fast flow conditions.

I do not have experience of all river types but the ones I have cruised on tend to have rings, bollards or cleats and pontoons. There doesn't tend to be much 'wild mooring' where you would use pins - certainly not whilst in flood.

[Dave_P]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No. I wasn't single handed, but I do single hand at times.

I would use the bow rope.

I have a very clever device that holds your line, hooks onto rings and feeds the line thru and back to the boat.

Draw along side the ring you want to tie up to, 'hook-it' keep hold of the line and slowly drop back, tie off the line to a stern cleat when the bow is aligned with the mooring ring and it is moored without leaving the boat. You can now get off & sort out the lines 'properly'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zhPsTtLy4c

 

Go on - admit you want one !!

And if there's only enough mooring space for one boat?