Why a Narrow Boat or GRP

[Calranthe]

While waiting for my GRP boat to be fixed, I have watched many youtube videos and talked to boaters on the canal (you can see the TMC from our back windows) I am curious to know what drives people to live on a narrow boat instead of a GRP ?

If I had the kind of money that can be spent on a narrow boat I would buy a modern river/canal/offshore GRP and there are versions of that kind of boat that are insulated have excellent storage and space, 4-6 berth and while anti fouling would still be a thing the not having to black and having far more manoeuvrability and an expanded area to travel in. I could see myself living on one of them but never on a narrow boat.

Do not think that I hate narrow boats, I do not, they are beautiful like old Tudor houses but the maintenance seems to outstrip a normal house.

I know this is a personal thing to everyone so I am curious why did you decide on the boat you did and what if any regrets did you have ?

[Dave Payne]

What are the biggest GRP's you see around, 30-35ft? 

 

I couldnt imagine living in a such a small space, thats the only reason for me.

[Athy]

16 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

What are the biggest GRP's you see around, 30-35ft? 

 

I couldnt imagine living in a such a small space, thats the only reason for me.

If you're talking about narrowbeam boats I'd agree with you. But we regularly hire widebeam GRP boats about 30' by 10', and they are quite specious - they probably have more Lebensraum than our 45 foot narrowboat.

[Naughty Cal]

29 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

What are the biggest GRP's you see around, 30-35ft? 

 

I couldnt imagine living in a such a small space, thats the only reason for me.

A 35ft grp cruiser will offer far more accommodation than a 45ft narrowboat. They use the available space far better.

Personally I can never see us having a steel boat. We much prefer grp.

[WotEver]

52 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

I am curious to know what drives people to live on a narrow boat instead of a GRP ?

If you wish to travel the canals of central England you don't have a lot of choice. 

[Dave Payne]

53 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

A 35ft grp cruiser will offer far more accommodation than a 45ft narrowboat. They use the available space far better.

Personally I can never see us having a steel boat. We much prefer grp.

Im struggling to see that.

[Neil2]

Personally I like all boats but if you want to explore all the inland waterways you have to have a beam of under 7' and an air draught of under around 5'6" which means you can only increase space by going long.  It wouldn't be impossible to build a long thin grp boat but technical (and market) considerations make it so much easier to use steel, hence the modern narrowboat.  

It's often assumed that narrowboats are steel because of the rough and tumble nature of the canals, but it's really more to do with the fact that any form of composite construction is so labour intensive that it can't compete with the relatively cheap alternative of welding steel.  And, narrowboats are really just steel boxes, they are not engineered in the way sea going boats are so there isn't a huge amount of technical expertise needed.  

The other advantage of steel is that it lends itself to bespoke construction,  unlike grp where boats are constructed on a "one size fits all" mould.   

 

[leeco]

I guess it all depends on how big your GRP boat is as I've seen some big ones but really you will never beat a biggish narrow boat of a wide beam. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Dave Payne said:

What are the biggest GRP's you see around, 30-35ft? 

The Royal Navy Minesweepers are GRP and just a tad larger than 35 foot.

The OP did not specifically mention canals - just having :

1 hour ago, Calranthe said:

far more manoeuvrability and an expanded area to travel in

 - which is why we are currently on twin-engined GRP Boats

Edited July 13, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[Naughty Cal]

15 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

Im struggling to see that.

Perhaps you should step onto one and take a look then.

13 minutes ago, leeco said:

I guess it all depends on how big your GRP boat is as I've seen some big ones but really you will never beat a biggish narrow boat of a wide beam. 

Yes you will.

How many 45ft fat narrowboats have three bedrooms, two shower rooms, comfortable seating for 8 inside and 12 outside? 

[WotEver]

Just now, Naughty Cal said:

Perhaps you should step onto one and take a look then.

My mate's 24ft narrow beam Norman had WAY less space than our 35ft narrow boat at the time, so I don't see it either. 

[Naughty Cal]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

My mate's 24ft narrow beam Norman had WAY less space than our 35ft narrow boat at the time, so I don't see it either. 

Perhaps you should look at more boats and compare a bigger selection then. I don't know the Norman so can't comment on that one. But certainly our 23ft boat had far more accommodation than the 31ft Sea Otters that are popular round our way.

[Calranthe]

Some in this thread are making a lot of assumptions about GRP, its understandable and on some forums narrow boat users even look down on "plastic" boats but having been inside both even our 20ft Kathleen feels more spacious than a 35ft NB we looked at, you may just surprise yourself, something like Naughty Cal is so well designed to make use of the space provided both in storage and people space it would be a real eye opener, yes I think that I am right in thinking Naughty Cal would have trouble in some of the smaller canal's but she isn't an exception to the rule, i've seen 25-27ft GRP live in cruisers who can handle all the canals and have the ability to take on much more than a NB can.

And some are built like tanks lol.

I think it is more about perception.

[WotEver]

16 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Perhaps you should look at more boats and compare a bigger selection then. I don't know the Norman so can't comment on that one. But certainly our 23ft boat had far more accommodation than the 31ft Sea Otters that are popular round our way.

Your 23ft boat has far more beam than a 31ft caravan Sea Otter too. 

An extra 14" width makes a huge difference. 

[cuthound]

A box makes the most efficient use of space,  any curves will reduce space further so I can't see that a narrow beam cruiser can have more room than an equivalent length narrowboat, although short narrowboats do lose a lot of internal space to the bow and stern decks.

Furthermore all of the GRP canal cruisers that I have been on have seriously reduced headroom in the front cabins too. 

Finally most, but not all narrow beam GRP cruisers are no where near as well insulated as the average narrow boat,  so can be cold and damp in winter.

[chubby]

i think " space " on a boat is a perception thing . A narrowboat is 7 ft wide & X ft Long . Always the same width & so to me its all about how you utilise the available interior space , howml much thought the layout has been given . So in a small GRP boat i expect the " use every last inch to its best " design mentality is in the designer / builder mind from the very beginning . 

This mentality is also present on narrowboats , but maybe to a lesser extent ? I often see ads for narrowboats & i think to myself that the layout just looks wrong , that space hasn t been used as well as possible . Also on narrowboats the bulkheads dividing the boat into rooms or areas can create a sense of crampedness , whereas if designed open plan and with more thought a " feeling or sense "' of space can be created . People have walked thru my bow doors and gone " oh , how spacious is it in here ?" , whereas in reality of course my narrowboat is the exact same width as thiers is . Its just the fittings and layout have been thought out to enable a " sense " of space despite being only 6 ft wide inside . White painted ceilings , cream walls add to this . 

I find my boat has never felt anything other than spacious and comfortable . I ve consider the idea of buying a new boat recently and may well yet  do so but i think ill really struggle to find an interior layout that feels as " right " as my current boat and so may well just keep this one and spend money doing it up instead . 

So , to me " space " is a conceptual thing - narrowboats are no more tjan 6 ft wide inside , but what you do with that space can be the difference between it feeling comfy or cramped . Ive seen 35-40 footers that look more comfy than 60 footers & thats achieved by thinking a bit harder .

cheers 

[Dave_P]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Your 23ft boat has far more beam than a 31ft caravan Sea Otter too. 

An extra 14" width makes a huge difference. 

And the air draft too.  A sea going boat like Phyliss's bear no comparison to a narrowbeam canal boat.  All the 7' grp boats I've seen offer no greater internal space than the equivalent narrowboat.  Usually less in fact, due to stern and bow layouts.

[WJM]

If I had a GRP boat it would be a total wreck. A steel boat can take so much more 'abuse'!

 

[ditchcrawler]

Maybe another reason is that a 2003 Princess 45 would cost more than a brand new top of the range 58ft narrowboat

[Naughty Cal]

21 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

And the air draft too.  A sea going boat like Phyliss's bear no comparison to a narrowbeam canal boat.  All the 7' grp boats I've seen offer no greater internal space than the equivalent narrowboat.  Usually less in fact, due to stern and bow layouts.

But who has mentioned narrow beam boats?

The OP certainly didn't. In fact quite the opposite. The only people mentioning narrow beam are those confined to their tin tubes.

11 minutes ago, WJM said:

If I had a GRP boat it would be a total wreck. A steel boat can take so much more 'abuse'!

 

Why would it be a wreck?

Unless of course you make a habit of smashing your boat into things!

[Calranthe]

13 minutes ago, WJM said:

If I had a GRP boat it would be a total wreck. A steel boat can take so much more 'abuse'!

 

True but only conditional, from what I understand it a scratch on a GRP is just a scratch (except in the case of osmosis and only certain types of GRP are prone to it) a scratch to a NB that goes through the paintwork into the metal can cause issues and steel does not flex like GRP does, yes it can take a bigger knock but does it take those knocks without needing more repair work long term and time out of the water than a GRP.

 

This post was not a GRP vs NB that is one of those questions that has no answer, people are people, unique in our likes and interests but it would be interesting to see a NB which some people do take into tidal and River spend a little time on a well built GRP.

Am I wrong in thinking the following ?

My GRP boat can reverse and steer better than a NB

My GRP boat can do a 360 turn within its own size (I know this is true for kathleen even when the engine was not at 100% we turned back just before a lock at within one of the tightest parts of the canal with no issue at all.

My GRP can with a bigger prop go tidal river and coastal (I am not saying in any way that I would and I know it isn't advised) but I have seen Buckingham 20's fitted out for coastal, crazy yes but in theory possible you would need a pilot with a lot of experience.

[Calranthe]

I think Chubby put it the right way, NB are a box have been that basic shape with a few modifications since they became a thing, usage of that space is the big and changeable part, now a Sealine S23 was as most GRP built from day one with every part of it custom and designed to best use that shape, not one inch of space wasted, years of experience and design work, meaning that on a well designed boat like the S23 (yes there is always lemons out there) you can have up to 20 people for a party and 8 people visiting comfortably. Meaning that for 2+ people it can be a very spacious living area.

After looking into boats and if Kathleen ever becomes too small then something like the S23 but with a single diesel for economy reasons, would I think fit us well but this would be far past the point we had explored the canal's to our hearts content and wished to go further than comfortable in Kathleen and that is what it will come down to as my experience grows with Kathleen will I get to the point I outstrip the boat ?

[Alan de Enfield]

There is more to 'size' than the quoted dimensions.

Here is a 32 foot GRP cruiser moored next to my 36 foot GRP cruiser.

I have 2 'bedrooms' both with ensuite showers, toilets and wash basins, a separate 'kitchen', a separate dining room, and a separate 'lounge'. & room for two big 6-cyliner diesel engines under the floor.

 

 

[Calranthe]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There is more to 'size' than the quoted dimensions.

Here is a 32 foot GRP cruiser moored next to my 36 foot GRP cruiser.

I have 2 'bedrooms' both with ensuite showers, toilets and wash basins, a separate 'kitchen', a separate dining room, and a separate 'lounge'. & room for two big 6-cyliner diesel engines under the floor.

 

 

That is a nice looking boat  what type is it ?

Edited July 13, 2017 by Calranthe

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

That is a nice looking boat  what type is it ?

It is an offshore trawler hull which a boat builder had built as a pleasure cruiser, it has twin Ford 6-cylinder engines and a 2000 mile range before re-fueling.

 

A couple of internal pics :

 

Saloon

Helm Position

Dining Room (for 6 people)

Kitchen

Master Bedroom (with Shower on right hand side of pic & Toilet and hand basin on Left hand side of pic)

Edited July 13, 2017 by Alan de Enfield